Animal rights

[theessexfox]

As do most animals - sea otters are actually really ****ing clever. 

 

 

The point I'm making is nature is a cut-throat, dog-eat-dog state of affairs - hell the only reason we've survived so long is because we have an aptitude for killing everything that moves: so why when nature is a brutal, cruel state should we go against every single aspect of it, betray the skills that have allowed us to become more than lion chodder?

To be fair, which other species have a true sense of morality and a justice system? 

[The Doctor]

To be fair, which other species have a true sense of morality and a justice system? 

 

Capucin monkeys have morality - they've been observed to reject favours from those who they've seen decline to do favours for others. From what I'm aware a lot of animals build their social groups on morals, I think there've been books published on observing those. As for justice systems, I've not the foggiest - animals will tend to shun members of their society if they do something wrong, but whether than can be considered the application of a justice system...

[purpleronnie]

To be fair, which other species have a true sense of morality and a justice system? 

 

When I was 6 I'm sure this dog looked at me funny when it saw me nicking some sweets.

[Guest MattP]

When I was 6 I'm sure this dog looked at me funny when it saw me nicking some sweets.

 

 

You want to see what they do when you sit there wanking.

[purpleronnie]

You want to see what they do when you sit there wanking.

 

Wanking them or yourself?

[Guest MattP]

Wanking them or yourself?

Either.

 

I feel like THEBIGJOHNSTEADER today.

[purpleronnie]

Either.

 

I feel like THEBIGJOHNSTEADER today.

 

I was jusk asking, I know you love animals I just didnt realise how much.

[ozleicester]

As do most animals - sea otters are actually really ****ing clever. 

 

 

The point I'm making is nature is a cut-throat, dog-eat-dog state of affairs - hell the only reason we've survived so long is because we have an aptitude for killing everything that moves: so why when nature is a brutal, cruel state should we go against every single aspect of it, betray the skills that have allowed us to become more than lion chodder?

 

 

The point is, for us,..for humans, its no longer cut throat, we are capable of, and do live, lives that do not need to involve indiscriminate killing and killing those less intellectually capable than us... for fun.

 

A sea otter, Lion or bear needs to kill in order to live... a human being does not!

 

Very few animals kill for pleasure, they kill to survive, humans do not!....... the only reason... the ONLY reason we kill cows, pigs, sheep etc... is for pleasure.

[Finnegan]

I couldn't survive without bacon.

[cambridgefox]

So then Oz - Otters rape seals to death:Nature is a bitch so why, when all of existence is a big fight for survival should we put aside what we are (animals) and try and protect things that would happily kill us were the roles reversed?

An elephants penis is long and thin,but you wouldn't want it to finger you first!

[cambridgefox]

I couldn't survive without bacon.

Not even for a( wait for it) weeeeeeeeek.

Not sure that joke ever worked saying it making the pig noise,let alone typing it!

[Manwell Pablo]

The point is, for us,..for humans, its no longer cut throat, we are capable of, and do live, lives that do not need to involve indiscriminate killing and killing those less intellectually capable than us... for fun.

 

A sea otter, Lion or bear needs to kill in order to live... a human being does not!

 

Very few animals kill for pleasure, they kill to survive, humans do not!....... the only reason... the ONLY reason we kill cows, pigs, sheep etc... is for pleasure.

 

 

 

 

Sorry allow me to breifly come back into this topic and I'll be gone again as while your entitiled to your opinion I can't stomach you posting things that are just incorrect.

 

Just so I can ascertain this properly, so the ONLY reason we call cows pigs sheep etc is for pleasure, it would not cause the death of human beings?

 

If this is the case can you please explain to me how we are going to feed guide dogs, dogs trained to sniff out drugs and bombs, and rescue dogs.

 

or your ****ing cat for that matter?

[ozleicester]

Sorry allow me to breifly come back into this topic and I'll be gone again as while your entitiled to your opinion I can't stomach you posting things that are just incorrect.

 

Just so I can ascertain this properly, so the ONLY reason we call cows pigs sheep etc is for pleasure, it would not cause the death of human beings?

 

If this is the case can you please explain to me how we are going to feed guide dogs, dogs trained to sniff out drugs and bombs, and rescue dogs.

 

or your ****ing cat for that matter?

 

 

Welcome back, feel free to post your opinion whenever you think i may be wrong, certainly on this occasion i am not, but welcome anyway.

 

Yes, this is correct. Guide dogs, drug sniffers, bomb sniffers exist purely for our pleasure. There are alternatives to prevent bombings and drug abuse that dont include risking the lives of innocent animals so we are not at risk.

 

I do not oppose the use of guide dogs.. but the facts remain, they are bred, trained and used for human pleasure.

[Manwell Pablo]

Welcome back, feel free to post your opinion whenever you think i may be wrong, certainly on this occasion i am not, but welcome anyway.

 

Yes, this is correct. Guide dogs, drug sniffers, bomb sniffers exist purely for our pleasure. There are alternatives to prevent bombings and drug abuse that dont include risking the lives of innocent animals so we are not at risk.

 

I do not oppose the use of guide dogs.. but the facts remain, they are bred, trained and used for human pleasure.

 

 

 

 

The are the most effective detection methods though, meaning sucess rates will go down, causing death. Meaning they are bred to save lives not for our pleasure, It's quite simple.

 

You do not oppose the use of Guide Dogs but you oppose feeding them? ok.

 

Whats the alternative to resuce dogs that pull people out of natural disasters noticed another one of your tactical diversion answers cunningly avoided answering that one.

 

EDIT

 

I don't breed chickens to kill and eat, I keep chickens just as pets, and leave them to live a safe, happy life. I think foxes would get many, many chickens if we let them go, surely it's less cruel to keep them as pets - they're perfectly content!

 

 

In a early post you seemed quite adament that you answer all the questions poised to you (which you don't) yet this is another one you left for a week before returning with another shocking news story to change the subject. I Think you should give the lad an answer.

[ozleicester]

The are the most effective detection methods though, meaning sucess rates will go down, causing death. Meaning they are bred to save lives not for our pleasure, It's quite simple.

 

You do not oppose the use of Guide Dogs but you oppose feeding them? ok.

 

Whats the alternative to resuce dogs that pull people out of natural disasters noticed another one of your tactical diversion answers cunningly avoided answering that one.

 

EDIT

 

 

In a early post you seemed quite adament that you answer all the questions poised to you (which you don't) yet this is another one you left for a week before returning with another shocking news story to change the subject. I Think you should give the lad an answer.

 

Dogs/animals are NOT the most effective detection or rescue methods, are you living in some fantasy world (or at least the 1900s)?, if you ever go missing in the slopes etc, i hope you are relying on a dog with a barrel of whisky, rather than electronic and technologically advanced equipment. 

 

Your constant support of this topic is indeed heartening, in fact some time ago you complained that it was too often on the front page...and now you complain if i dont activate it every week, another example of your irrational and absurd logic that you seem to like to apply throughout your ridiculous comments.

 

i am also pleased to assist with your continued education... you might like to note that the sentence your quoted from another poster....

 

"I don't breed chickens to kill and eat, I keep chickens just as pets, and leave them to live a safe, happy life. I think foxes would get many, many chickens if we let them go, surely it's less cruel to keep them as pets - they're perfectly content!"

 

This what we refer to as a ... "statement", this differs from a question in a number of ways, but most importantly it doesnt require an answer.

 

 

just to keep you informed...Animal cruelty in the UK increased by 34 percent last year.

 

http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/news/local-news/animal-cruelty-rises-by-34-per-cent-1-5078494

 

 

http://www.rspca.org.uk/in-action/whatwedo/prosecution/report/-/article/PROS_PAR_2012_Prosecuctions_annual_report_2012

[Manwell Pablo]

Dogs/animals are NOT the most effective detection or rescue methods, are you living in some fantasy world (or at least the 1900s)?, if you ever go missing in the slopes etc, i hope you are relying on a dog with a barrel of whisky, rather than electronic and technologically advanced equipment. 

 

Your constant support of this topic is indeed heartening, in fact some time ago you complained that it was too often on the front page...and now you complain if i dont activate it every week, another example of your irrational and absurd logic that you seem to like to apply throughout your ridiculous comments.

 

i am also pleased to assist with your continued education... you might like to note that the sentence your quoted from another poster....

 

"I don't breed chickens to kill and eat, I keep chickens just as pets, and leave them to live a safe, happy life. I think foxes would get many, many chickens if we let them go, surely it's less cruel to keep them as pets - they're perfectly content!"

 

This what we refer to as a ... "statement", this differs from a question in a number of ways, but most importantly it doesnt require an answer.

 

 

just to keep you informed...Animal cruelty in the UK increased by 34 percent last year.

 

http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/news/local-news/animal-cruelty-rises-by-34-per-cent-1-5078494

 

 

http://www.rspca.org.uk/in-action/whatwedo/prosecution/report/-/article/PROS_PAR_2012_Prosecuctions_annual_report_2012

 

 

That highlighted bit is a question, or at least a request to hear your opinion on what he has just stated, which you ignored, you silly boy.

 

Anyway I did type out a reply of reasonable length. But then you have a habbit of using such posts to avoid important detail and try and change the subject etc I know you get distracted easily.

 

Although I will say I did laugh at you calling me behind the times when your view of a rescue dogs is a St Bernards with a flask around it's neck you can tell you only educated in one side of your argument. I think you should do some research into rescue dogs pal. Like the one that saved 30 peoples lives post 9/11 or the ones that have been used after big earthquakes.

 

The question I'd like to ask is do you believe the replacements for these dogs are so effective in every situation that there they would save every single life both directly and indirectly the dogs would have?

[Houdini Logic]

I do not oppose the use of guide dogs.. but the facts remain, they are bred, trained and used for human pleasure.

 

My parents bred and trained me for human pleasure - I didn't ask to be here - but my life could be worse, much like that of most guide dogs I'm guessing.

 

What's your point?

[Manwell Pablo]

My parents bred and trained me for human pleasure - I didn't ask to be here - but my life could be worse, much like that of most guide dogs I'm guessing.

 

What's your point?

 

It's a snail trail he needs to clean up, he doesn't actually care about pets, he's got one himself ffs.

 

What he basically wants us for to stop killing cows pigs sheep etc for food, (even though he buys cat food himself thus ironically supporting the very system he apparently despises) and clothing which is something you could possibly admire as reasonably noble if he wasn't so Nazi esque extremist with a pinch of patronising C8nt about it. But of course the repercussions of this is something that runs a lot deeper than just us eating steak and so there has to be weird and wonderful counter arguements for the other ramifications. One of which is if we stop slaughtering animals, what do we feed dogs and cats, answer, we don't as we no longer keep them or breed them for our pleasure (as pets).

 

He is yet to clarify whether this means extentintion or leaving them to suffer and die as strays but suffice to say either result is one of the many glaring contradictions in his beliefs

[Carl the Llama]

Yes, this is correct. Guide dogs, drug sniffers, bomb sniffers exist purely for our pleasure. There are alternatives to prevent bombings and drug abuse that dont include risking the lives of innocent animals so we are not at risk.

What exactly do you think sniffer dogs do?  They perform their duties alongside their handlers who don't have the super sensitive noses that dogs have.  Therefore by definition if the dog is in any danger, so is the human it's with.  If a bomb is detected, the next step is to send in a robot to check it out, then a human being.  Dogs aren't being sent out to explode into pieces on behalf of people... 

[Dr The Singh]

My parents bred and trained me for human pleasure - I didn't ask to be here - but my life could be worse, much like that of most guide dogs I'm guessing.

 

What's your point?

Your a dog?

[Houdini Logic]

It's a snail trail he needs to clean up, he doesn't actually care about pets, he's got one himself ffs.

 

What he basically wants us for to stop killing cows pigs sheep etc for food (even though he buys cat food himself thus ironically supporting the very system he apparently despises) and clothing. But of course the repercussions of this is something that runs a lot deeper than just us eating steak and so there has to be weird and wonderful counter arguements for the other ramifications. One of which is if we stop slaughtering animals, what do we feed dogs and cats, answer, we don't as we no longer keep them or breed them for our pleasure (as pets).

 

He is yet to clarify whether this means extentintion or leaving them to suffer and die as strays but suffice to say either result is one of the many glaring contradictions in his beliefs

 

Wow, I maybe should have read a few pages before posting.

 

Everyone can force themselves to like tofu, cats are no exceptions.

[Houdini Logic]

Your a dog?

 

A super literate one bred on high protein horse parts

[theessexfox]

Dogs/animals are NOT the most effective detection or rescue methods, are you living in some fantasy world (or at least the 1900s)?, if you ever go missing in the slopes etc, i hope you are relying on a dog with a barrel of whisky, rather than electronic and technologically advanced equipment. 

 

Your constant support of this topic is indeed heartening, in fact some time ago you complained that it was too often on the front page...and now you complain if i dont activate it every week, another example of your irrational and absurd logic that you seem to like to apply throughout your ridiculous comments.

 

i am also pleased to assist with your continued education... you might like to note that the sentence your quoted from another poster....

 

"I don't breed chickens to kill and eat, I keep chickens just as pets, and leave them to live a safe, happy life. I think foxes would get many, many chickens if we let them go, surely it's less cruel to keep them as pets - they're perfectly content!"

 

This what we refer to as a ... "statement", this differs from a question in a number of ways, but most importantly it doesnt require an answer.

 

 

just to keep you informed...Animal cruelty in the UK increased by 34 percent last year.

 

http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/news/local-news/animal-cruelty-rises-by-34-per-cent-1-5078494

 

 

http://www.rspca.org.uk/in-action/whatwedo/prosecution/report/-/article/PROS_PAR_2012_Prosecuctions_annual_report_2012

However, as Manwell said I did pose a question in that statement, and surely a statement that contradicts your views requires a counter-argument? I'm waiting 

[ozleicester]

That highlighted bit is a question, or at least a request to hear your opinion on what he has just stated, which you ignored, you silly boy.

 

 

 

Anyway I did type out a reply of reasonable length. But then you have a habbit of using such posts to avoid important detail and try and change the subject etc I know you get distracted easily.

 

 

 

Although I will say I did laugh at you calling me behind the times when your view of a rescue dogs is a St Bernards with a flask around it's neck you can tell you only educated in one side of your argument. I think you should do some research into rescue dogs pal. Like the one that saved 30 peoples lives post 9/11 or the ones that have been used after big earthquakes.

 

 

 

The question I'd like to ask is do you believe the replacements for these dogs are so effective in every situation that there they would save every single life both directly and indirectly the dogs would have?

 

Im not completely up to date on the efficacy of rescue dogs versus technology so i cannot say that more or less lives would be saved. However, i can say without doubt that less animals would die if we did not use them. I think thats pretty clear.

 

Seriously?, you thought that i meant that rescue dogs were just St Bernards?..  

 

 

My parents bred and trained me for human pleasure - I didn't ask to be here - but my life could be worse, much like that of most guide dogs I'm guessing.

 

What's your point?

 

My point is....You are now an adult and allowed to make your choices as to how you spend your life.

 

The guide dogs etc do not have that choice. Certainly most guide dogs lead wonderful lives and form a close loving relationship with their owner, the facts of the matter are, guide dogs, army dogs, cadaver dogs etc etc are not given a choice.

 

Mind you... then this sort of shit happens

 

http://www.gloucestercitynews.net/clearysnotebook/2013/04/blind-womans-healthy-guide-dog-is-killed-and-buried-alongside-her-in-fulfilment-of-her-dying-wish-mail-online.html?cid=6a00d8341bf7d953ef017eea1d647a970d

 

 

It's a snail trail he needs to clean up, he doesn't actually care about pets, he's got one himself ffs.

 

What he basically wants us for to stop killing cows pigs sheep etc for food, (even though he buys cat food himself thus ironically supporting the very system he apparently despises) and clothing which is something you could possibly admire as reasonably noble if he wasn't so Nazi esque extremist with a pinch of patronising C8nt about it. But of course the repercussions of this is something that runs a lot deeper than just us eating steak and so there has to be weird and wonderful counter arguements for the other ramifications. One of which is if we stop slaughtering animals, what do we feed dogs and cats, answer, we don't as we no longer keep them or breed them for our pleasure (as pets).

 

He is yet to clarify whether this means extentintion or leaving them to suffer and die as strays but suffice to say either result is one of the many glaring contradictions in his beliefs

 

Nazi - esque Im not sure you even understand what you are thinking let alone writing. Nazi?.. you dick!

 

Lets be very clear, i began this thread called "animal rights" because on a couple of occasions there had been other threads that drifted off topic due to discussions about cruelty and animal rights. Rather than have these discussions (irrelevant to other topics) popping up all over the place i started this thread.

 

Unlike some childish, obsessive little people. I,(in the main) restrict my animal rights discussions and opinions to this thread. which, makes it incredibly easy to avoid if you dont wish to discuss it, or your little mind is fearful of being "patronised" by the big bad vegetarian.

 

If we do not keep animals as pets they will look after themselves in much the same way as the billions of wild creatures currently wandering the earth do. (Please note in case you havent read back through the topic, this is not an instant end to pets, but a long... long term gradual movement, there will not be millions of cute kitten and puppies thrown onto the streets to starve). I have explained this over many many posts, but some people dont seem to be able to comprehend the concept.

 

What exactly do you think sniffer dogs do?  They perform their duties alongside their handlers who don't have the super sensitive noses that dogs have.  Therefore by definition if the dog is in any danger, so is the human it's with.  If a bomb is detected, the next step is to send in a robot to check it out, then a human being.  Dogs aren't being sent out to explode into pieces on behalf of people... 

 

Yes, you are very correct and i am in awe of, and hold incredible respect for those men and women who risk their lives, their bravery is something i am constantly amazed by.

 

The difference is... they choose to do it, they understand the risks they take, the dogs do not.

 

 

However, as Manwell said I did pose a question in that statement, and surely a statement that contradicts your views requires a counter-argument? I'm waiting 

 

Apologies, i took it as a statement.

 

Chickens dont differ enormously from Pheasants and thousands of other bird varieties, some will be taken by foxes and that is the "nature" of things. They are fee to live their life.

 

As i have said, the existing chickens should not just be turfed out onto the streets, but over a long...long.. time frame we should stop producing them for our pleasure and benefit. 

[Houdini Logic]

Unlike some childish, obsessive little people. I,(in the main) restrict my animal rights discussions and opinions to this thread. which, makes it incredibly easy to avoid if you dont wish to discuss it, or your little mind is fearful of being "patronised" by the big bad vegetarian.

 

You're not vegan?!

 

This could be easy...