MC Prussian Posted 14 October 2012 Posted 14 October 2012 Can't believe the amount of players and pundits coming out and saying a point against the Poles would be a good result. Have things really gotten that bad? It's the question of all questions: Would you rather go into a match with lower expectations and get something out of it OR go into a match with high expectations only to be disappointed? With England, it's usually been the latter case in the past 46 years.
Guest BlueBrett Posted 14 October 2012 Posted 14 October 2012 It's the question of all questions:Would you rather go into a match with lower expectations and get something out of it OR go into a match with high expectations only to be disappointed? With England, it's usually been the latter case in the past 46 years. I think it's a sham. They can play at all the amateur psychology they like but they'll never fool me (and I suspect themselves) into genuinely believing anything other than a win against sides like that is acceptable. It's like they're trying to cover their arses in anticipation of another poor performance. I'd have a lot more respect for them, especially the management, if they could just be honest and say "well man for man we're a better team so we should really win but then it's a team game so on the night it's possible we wont". What I really don't understand thought is why the pundits seem to be colluding in the charade.
Jordan Posted 14 October 2012 Posted 14 October 2012 There's one game left in the CONCACAF 3nd round, and only one place in the final round of six teams has been taken (by Mexico, who are destroying their group). The United States leads its group, but not convincingly so, and actually needed a 90th-minute goal to escape Antigua and Barbuda with a win on Friday. However, a draw at home to Guatemala on Tuesday will send both teams through to the "hexagonal" at Jamaica's expense. Costa Rica, in all likelihood, will advance out of Group B with Mexico. Panama is in the driver's seat in Group C, and it will be a welcome sight to see Canada back in the final round for the first time since 1998 qualifying if they can get a result at Honduras. Going south, the Falcao-led Colombian renaissance is in full effect, and Ecuador finished a fine first half of the round-robin by beating Chile and moving four points clear in third place. As for England, I think fans and media-types alike would do better to save energy wasted on playing the expectations game and just focus on the next match at hand. If Ukraine and Montenegro also draw, then a point at Poland would be very useful, if not the best result possible.
MooseBreath Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 I think it's a sham. They can play at all the amateur psychology they like but they'll never fool me (and I suspect themselves) into genuinely believing anything other than a win against sides like that is acceptable. It's like they're trying to cover their arses in anticipation of another poor performance. I'd have a lot more respect for them, especially the management, if they could just be honest and say "well man for man we're a better team so we should really win but then it's a team game so on the night it's possible we wont". What I really don't understand thought is why the pundits seem to be colluding in the charade. Man for man we're not that much better than Poland, and they have home advantage. Personally I think it's refreshing that the media have started accepting the national team for what it is - a top 20 side, nothing better
purpleronnie Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Man for man we're not that much better than Poland, and they have home advantage. Personally I think it's refreshing that the media have started accepting the national team for what it is - a top 20 side, nothing better that'll change if we win a few.
Simo86 Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Man for man we're not that much better than Poland, and they have home advantage. Personally I think it's refreshing that the media have started accepting the national team for what it is - a top 20 side, nothing better Lewandowski and Polanski are the only 2 players I'd consider bettering any of our players to be honest
Haydos Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Messi was untouchable against Uruguay and ronaldo was shit against russia. Must mean he's shit.
Guest BlueBrett Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Man for man we're not that much better than Poland, and they have home advantage. Personally I think it's refreshing that the media have started accepting the national team for what it is - a top 20 side, nothing better I know that in the past there has been a tendency to overestimate the ability of the national team but now all of a sudden it seems to be fashionable to do the polar opposite and talk them down all the time in the name of being 'realistic'. I'm sorry but it's not realistic. It's just people wanting to be smug and congratulate themselves when things go wrong. As Simo pointed out, only 1 or possibly 2 of their players would get in our side.
Finnegan Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 What BlueBrett said. Why can so few English football fans just be rational and realistic?
Corky Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 I know that in the past there has been a tendency to overestimate the ability of the national team but now all of a sudden it seems to be fashionable to do the polar opposite and talk them down all the time in the name of being 'realistic'. I'm sorry but it's not realistic. It's just people wanting to be smug and congratulate themselves when things go wrong. As Simo pointed out, only 1 or possibly 2 of their players would get in our side. Yes, we're a top 8 European side and probably in the top 16 in the world, judging by our usual performances at tournaments. We're not special but we're not shit either.
BlueSi13 Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Yes, we're a top 8 European side and probably in the top 16 in the world, judging by our usual performances at tournaments. We're not special but we're not shit either. Squeak into the top 10 in the world for me. But not even remotely close to the top 6 of Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, the Netherlands and Italy. Therefore until that changes it doesn't really matter where we are placed in the rankings. Technically we are going backwards with some average players coming through to play in the senior side. Though our youth sides do look more promising. But i do agree us English tend to be very polar, though i think that about 95% of us tend to be stunningly negative when it comes to the national side now, this is despite us losing precious few games (haven't lost competitively since the Germany game in the 2010 world cup for example). But thats what happens after decades of massive underachievement with the resources we have at our disposal. As for tonight i would be happy with a draw, we are in a strong position and defeat is not unimaginable against solid opposition.
Guest MattP Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Yes, we're a top 8 European side and probably in the top 16 in the world, judging by our usual performances at tournaments. We're not special but we're not shit either. Yep that's right. The strange thing that when you get outside of Germany, Spain, Argentina, Uruguay and Holland (I cant even include Brazil on recent performances) the standard of the International game is pretty poor. The top 4-5 have left the rest behind and it could take a while to catch up.
marko Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Just watching Iraq v Australia. Iraq have gone 1-0 up. Aussies look terrible.
Corky Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Squeak into the top 10 in the world for me. But not even remotely close to the top 6 of Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, the Netherlands and Italy. Therefore until that changes it doesn't really matter where we are placed in the rankings. Technically we are going backwards with some average players coming through to play in the senior side. Though our youth sides do look more promising. But i do agree us English tend to be very polar, though i think that about 95% of us tend to be stunningly negative when it comes to the national side now, this is despite us losing precious few games (haven't lost competitively since the Germany game in the 2010 world cup for example). But thats what happens after decades of massive underachievement with the resources we have at our disposal. As for tonight i would be happy with a draw, we are in a strong position and defeat is not unimaginable against solid opposition. I think that's where people go so polar opposite in their opinion. Take, for example, Fulham- a club who are probably in the top 10 teams in England, but they are well behind the top five or six. It doesn't mean they are shit though. It's similar with England. We are not in the top six or seven countries in the world really, but we are near the head of the next group of teams, which doesn't make us a bad side.
purpleronnie Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Just watching Iraq v Australia. Iraq have gone 1-0 up. Aussies look terrible. Aussies win 2-1.
marko Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Aussies win 2-1. They did well to come back with only 15 minutes left, but they were shocking bar the two goals.
Guest BlueBrett Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 I think that's where people go so polar opposite in their opinion. Take, for example, Fulham- a club who are probably in the top 10 teams in England, but they are well behind the top five or six. It doesn't mean they are shit though.It's similar with England. We are not in the top six or seven countries in the world really, but we are near the head of the next group of teams, which doesn't make us a bad side That's pretty much how I see it. Meaning I rate our chances of winning the World Cup as similar to the chances of say Newcastle or Everton winning the FA Cup. There are undoubtedly better teams in the competition but on our day there's no reason we shouldn't have a good go at the best sides. Plus I don't think the top few sides are infallible, they all have their respective weaknesses.
Guest MattP Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 That's pretty much how I see it. Meaning I rate our chances of winning the World Cup as similar to the chances of say Newcastle or Everton winning the FA Cup. There are undoubtedly better teams in the competition but on our day there's no reason we shouldn't have a good go at the best sides. Plus I don't think the top few sides are infallible, they all have their respective weaknesses. Out of interest what is Spain's? Whole World has been trying to work it out since 2007.
Guest BlueBrett Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Out of interest what is Spain's? I thought somebody might say that! I considered excepting them but thought that might detract from my reasoning somewhat For argument's sake let's just say they lack physicality in a lot of areas and don't like being tackled hard
ADK Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 I think if we played to our stengths and adopted a robust physical approach and used players such as Carrol and Crouch who are some of the best "big men" out there then we could have a chance at success. Oh and learn how to take a penalty. Feels like we have decided it is only right a proper to try to match teams such as Germany Italy and Spain in technical ability when we have a team whos strengths are more about pace and physical strength. Maybe instead of adopting other teams tactics we should adopt our own. I think it hit me the last two major internationals how much lower the standard of international football is compared to top club level. Even Spain would be soundly beaten by top european clubs imo. Most international sides defend horribly and often direct football can be just as effective on the scoresheet as indecisive tippy toe sideways passing.
Tielemans63 Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Even Spain would be soundly beaten by top european clubs imo. I doubt it mate, they're the best team I've ever seen. Agree with some of your other points but can't agree with that.
foxesfan1989 Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 King in ahead of Ramsay! Big call. Just seen Ramsay is suspended. Still, good for King to come in!
ScouseFox Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Shit is kicking off in the U21 game in Serbia. Everyone is fighting with everyone. Apparently it's because the black players on the England team have been racially abused.
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