Oscar Pistorius

[NewburyFox]

He'll be done for culpable homicide (essentially manslaughter) IMO, although i can see the case for a murder conviction. I really can't see him getting done for pre-meditated murder, the evidence just isn't there.

[Captain...]

 Not quite yet. Speaking from a legal standpoint, i can't see how he could possibly get away with it. The requirements for the actus reus (physically action) of both murder and manslaughter (in England) are that the defendant did the act, the act was deliberate, the act was unlawful, the act was the significant cause of death and the death was of a person in being. All of which can't really be argued at all. 

The difference comes with the mens rea (mental element). Murder requires the unlawful killing of a human bring with malice aforethought (intention), whereas manslaughter can only require recklessness. Surely even the most lenient of people cannot deny that it was reckless, even if there was no intention to kill. 

 

It depends if in South Africa firing a weapon at an intruder is considered an illegal act.

 

In UK law they could plead voluntary manslaughter and claim that he was temporarily insane, believing something that wasn't true, but that would be a big ask.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I really can't see him getting done for pre-meditated murder, the evidence just isn't there.

 

I don't think in South African law that you need to show that it was pre-meditated for it to be murder, the prosecution just have to show that he intended to kill whoever he thought he was firing at.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

So many inconsistencies in his defence. Either he's a callous killer or someone so fvcking stupid he deserves to be locked up.

[Kitchandro]

Manslaughter for purposefully firing bullets at someone. What a disgrace.

[Grewks]

Firing multiple fairly high caliber bullets through a door into a small room is surely going to kill someone?

 

It is fairly obvious he intended to kill her for the following reason.

 

He was in the same bed and said he acted the way he did 'to protect Reeva his girlfriend'.....But he didn't even look to see if she was still in the same bed.

[kingcarr21]

Verdict to be announced this morning. What do you guys think it will be?

[leicsmac]

Likely culpable homicide...can't see the murder charge sticking but regardless of premeditation his girlfriend is dead and it's his fault, regardless of intent.

[Fox92]

Been dragged out so long. Throw him in jail, that's where we'd all be already if we'd have done the same thing.

[David Guiza]

As above I think it'll be culpable homicide (manslaughter). Unlike the OJ Simpson case, there aren't many mitigating circumstances that can save him. Surely his name won't spare him a lenghty custodial sentnce, even in South Africa? I'd imagine a 10/15 year sentence and he'll probably be out in 7.

[purpleronnie]

I said manslaughter before the trail began, just seemed the most likely outcome with these sort of cases, we'll see. 

[Guest MattP]

I think culpable homicide is likely.

Not what I'd give though, from what I've heard it seems clear as day he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Nick]

I thought 'Culpable Homicide' would be the verdict all day long as proving the 'intent' element is too sketchy with what evidence the prosecution have.

 

From following the 'summing up' this morning though I have a strange feeling he may walk on the charge of murder and maybe get a small amount of time/punishment for his other three gun waving charges....... 

[Merging Cultures]

If he was living in Spain I'd agree with you but I've got family in South Africa, a gun is pretty much essential in a middle class home there nowadays.

 

Sorry Matt, it's not.

[Merging Cultures]

Not guilty of premeditated.

[Guest MattP]

Sorry Matt, it's not.

Different opinions I suppose. My Aunt would disagree with you.

[Merging Cultures]

Different opinions I suppose. My Aunt would disagree with you.

 

So it makes it "pretty much essential" for her, and not for all middle class homes.

 

"Pretty much essential" for me would be a dog (big or small) and living on a secure estate/building. Which is what most middle class families do in large cities.

[David Guiza]

You can see why it was not murder, although most peoples opinion would be that it clearly was; too much doubt over intent etc. I just cannot see how anybody can claim his actions were that of a 'reasonable man' in the circumstances.

[Nick]

Oscar didn't look like he wanted an early lunch.

[ADK]

Clearly murder how ridiculous.

[leicsmac]

Clearly murder how ridiculous.

 

How?

 

The judge just said - rightly - that you can't foresee landing a killing shot on someone when you can't see where they are through a door.

[Guest MattP]

So it makes it "pretty much essential" for her, and not for all middle class homes.

 

"Pretty much essential" for me would be a dog (big or small) and living on a secure estate/building. Which is what most middle class families do in large cities.

 

What about if you live on a farm on the outskirts of Gauteng? A dog isn't really going to suffice, it would all be about location I'd imagine, a massive difference between isolated land near Pretoria to a gated community on the Cape.

 

Back to the trial;

 

Surprised to see him not guilty to be honest. Very surprised.

[Guest MattP]

How?

 

The judge just said - rightly - that you can't foresee landing a killing shot on someone when you can't see where they are through a door.

 

If you ever want to off your Mrs you know what to do now and where to take her, Dewani must be kicking himself, paying off three blacks to do it when all he had to was just wait until she gets up to go for a piss and then bang.

[leicsmac]

What about if you live on a farm on the outskirts of Gauteng? A dog isn't really going to suffice, it would all be about location I'd imagine, a massive difference between isolated land near Pretoria to a gated community on the Cape.

 

Back to the trial;

 

Surprised to see him not guilty to be honest. Very surprised.

 

Think there's a similarity between this and the rural areas of the US. Police response times are going to be long and criminals may well be tooled up, so I guess it makes sense for people to be able to defend themselves and their property with guns, too.

[ADK]

How?

 

The judge just said - rightly - that you can't foresee landing a killing shot on someone when you can't see where they are through a door.

 

 

In that case anyone who kills someone with a gun is not guilty so long as they can argue they didn't have a clean shot. You don't think shooting someone multiple times is likely to cause death?