Portsmouth Cardiff .. who would you rather be ?

[foxfanazer]

I just think that people are so transfixed with getting to the Prem or champions league they forget to enjoy the ride on the way. It's a nightmare being a leicester fan sometimes but there is no better feeling than when we win a game like last night.

[Kitchandro]

But my point was, Cardiff have not sold their history by changing their club colours...

... Leeds changed their club colours to white, but did/does that wipe out their history before it? Don't think so.

I'm not going to get into all this debate again, of course everyone here is going to post Portsmouth, but Cardiff are the ones in the top flight. I'm not into the PL thing (or whatever), but I just feel that Cardiff are the ones playing against those top clubs and players.

Both Arsenal and Manchester United changed their kit colours to Red. Arsenal even had two different names before settling on Arsenal. Does it matter? No. Like Cardiff, they haven't sold their history, I guess they've just 're-developed'. The history is still there, which is the main thing.

Well nobody remembers it

If you change your colours you're suggesting the club wasn't good enough before. And we're talking about 40 years of history there, not 100 odd. You know, they probably shouldn't have changed their kit from a very simple way of looking at it, but not many supporters will be able to remember them playing in anything other than white at home so how is it comparable? For Cardiff fans, one minute they're supporting the bluebirds, the next theyre supporting these guys. It's ridiculous.

So you'd be happy if we changed our name as long as we got promoted? Is that what you're saying.

[Hugo Sanchez]

Leicester play in blue and I wouldn't go if tops changed us to red. I know we changed to white for half a season in the the 70's but they realise what a stupid idea it was and went back to blue.

If tops decided to changed us into leicester bosworth and went from the foxes to the king richards and changed our image. I would support a AFC Leicester.

[RobHawk]

Cardiff. They changed their kit and badge, big whoop. People bang on about Leeds as if they're some footballing Goliath but they've done both of those things.

I'd rather support Shepshed Dynamo than MK Dons, who bought themselves a league position, but Cardiff are just Cardiff. Same fans, same city, same ground, same memories.

You could call us Leicester Foxes, Leicester Fosse, whatever. Play is in green, red, yellow, I don't care. I'd still remember Muzzy's overhead kick, Heskey's equalizer at Wembley, Coatsworth against Luton. A club is the people, the city, the history.

The rest is just aesthetic. I've had this argument numerous times and I know I'm in the minority, given up trying to convince anyone. I know I'm supposed to be appalled and to get upset about "modern football" and to wank off over camp tifo displays and any club from somewhere vaguely exotic waving a flare but I just don't feel it.

If LCFC price me out, I'll be angry. If the owners rinse us to get rich and leave us bankrupt, I'll be angry. But anyone who'd stop going PURELY because of a change to kit colour? I'm going to use a phrase the cool kids like.... You're not a real fan.

Its not just a change of kit colour though is it? Its a change in identity. The bluebirds have been replaced by the red dragons. I understand your point and agree to some extent but imagine how the cardiff fans would have reacted if they had had a poor season this year. The thing that won them over was sucess which ultimately isn't likely to last. If the club is the people, the city and the history then surely you have to take them into consideration when making a change such as this. The only thing the Cardiff owners had in mind was ££££££££££. They sold out the people the city and the history so they could make more money.

P.S. That coatsworth goal was a beaut! They really don'y make em like that anymore!

[Brainy]

Cardiff. They changed their kit and badge, big whoop. People bang on about Leeds as if they're some footballing Goliath but they've done both of those things.

I'd rather support Shepshed Dynamo than MK Dons, who bought themselves a league position, but Cardiff are just Cardiff. Same fans, same city, same ground, same memories.

You could call us Leicester Foxes, Leicester Fosse, whatever. Play is in green, red, yellow, I don't care. I'd still remember Muzzy's overhead kick, Heskey's equalizer at Wembley, Coatsworth against Luton. A club is the people, the city, the history.

The rest is just aesthetic. I've had this argument numerous times and I know I'm in the minority, given up trying to convince anyone. I know I'm supposed to be appalled and to get upset about "modern football" and to wank off over camp tifo displays and any club from somewhere vaguely exotic waving a flare but I just don't feel it.

If LCFC price me out, I'll be angry. If the owners rinse us to get rich and leave us bankrupt, I'll be angry. But anyone who'd stop going PURELY because of a change to kit colour? I'm going to use a phrase the cool kids like.... You're not a real fan.

Im repping your posts far too much today

[Fox92]

Well nobody remembers it

If you change your colours you're suggesting the club wasn't good enough before. And we're talking about 40 years of history there, not 100 odd. You know, they probably shouldn't have changed their kit from a very simple way of looking at it, but not many supporters will be able to remember them playing in anything other than white at home so how is it comparable? For Cardiff fans, one minute they're supporting the bluebirds, the next theyre supporting these guys. It's ridiculous.

So you'd be happy if we changed our name as long as we got promoted? Is that what you're saying.

Leeds changing their kit to white was done under Revie, I believe.

Not sure that it suggests the club wasn't good enough before. All they are doing is 'rebranding' the kit/nickname in a way, not the stadium, the club or its history. In the case of this argument, surely is comparable? My point is, as well, that Cardiff arn't the only team to have done it.

Not saying in any way that I'd be happy if we changed our name and got promoted. (Cardiff haven't changed their name have they, it's only their nickname?). All I'm saying is, I know you're all going to say Pompey, but let's be honest, if it came to it, you wouldn't select League Two over the top flight.

[Kitchandro]

Leeds changing their kit to white was done under Revie, I believe.

Not sure that it suggests the club wasn't good enough before. All they are doing is 'rebranding' the kit/nickname in a way, not the stadium, the club or its history. In the case of this argument, surely is comparable? My point is, as well, that Cardiff arn't the only team to have done it.

Not saying in any way that I'd be happy if we changed our name and got promoted. (Cardiff haven't changed their name have they, it's only their nickname?). All I'm saying is, I know you're all going to say Pompey, but let's be honest, if it came to it, you wouldn't select League Two over the top flight.

Why is rebranding the stadium worse? That's still the same place. The kit would look completely different.

Of course it's suggesting the club wasn't good enough before. If it was why would you change anything? It says blue is a losers colour and we don't want to be associated with it anymore. The bluebirds were crap, we want to be the red dragons now.

You said Arsenal changed their name a few times in their early history, what was your point then if it wasn't that you'd be happy with a change?

I don't care how many clubs have done it, I'm just saying in no uncertain terms, if we did it, I'd never go to another game again. It would not be the same club no matter how much certain people would grit their teeth and try and pretend it was.

[Finnegan]

Its not just a change of kit colour though is it? Its a change in identity. The bluebirds have been replaced by the red dragons. I understand your point and agree to some extent but imagine how the cardiff fans would have reacted if they had had a poor season this year. The thing that won them over was sucess which ultimately isn't likely to last. If the club is the people, the city and the history then surely you have to take them into consideration when making a change such as this. The only thing the Cardiff owners had in mind was ££££££££££. They sold out the people the city and the history so they could make more money.

P.S. That coatsworth goal was a beaut! They really don'y make em like that anymore!

It's only really a change in identity if you exclusively identify with being "a bluebird" or "a fox." I'm personally a Leicester fan and always have been. I live in Leicester, I've largely grown up here even if it's not where I was born.

That's why I follow the side and why I always will. I didn't pick the team BECAUSE they're called the foxes, so I'd not be fussed if that name was changed.

I WOULD be angry if they uprooted, built a stadium in Birkenhead and called us the Wirral Foxes. Then I'd have problems identifying.

[Harry - LCFC]

To have a club or to have a franchised, characterless lump of plastic crap .... that is the question.

[RobHawk]

It's only really a change in identity if you exclusively identify with being "a bluebird" or "a fox." I'm personally a Leicester fan and always have been. I live in Leicester, I've largely grown up here even if it's not where I was born.

That's why I follow the side and why I always will. I didn't pick the team BECAUSE they're called the foxes, so I'd not be fussed if that name was changed.

I WOULD be angry if they uprooted, built a stadium in Birkenhead and called us the Wirral Foxes. Then I'd have problems identifying.

To some degree I agree with you. If they did an MK dons - I agree i'd be done and wouldn't continue supporting them. If they did change our nickname and shirt sponsor ala Cardiff i'm not saying i wouldn't support them anymore but i really wouldn't be happy about it!

We are the foxes and that is a brand and an identity in itself! We talk about memories - I have memories of filbert fox as a kid - With vicky and dennis - Not the football but still part of my memories of the club. To go to games and see a different mascot would be sad. If there is real need for change, If we were the Leicester gaybashers i'd understand times change and we need to consider a rebrand and I don't mind things changing. If its just for a quick buck, cashing in on something fans hold dear then I don't think its right and something that fans should challenge.

As i said i think there would have been a lot more uproar in Cardiff if it wasn't for success. As fans we really are fickle at the end of the day!

[MC Prussian]

Seriously, who wants to be a Cardiff Dragon?

[Samilktray]

People are really saying they'd prefer to be where Pompey are this forum.

[Finnegan]

To have a club or to have a franchised, characterless lump of plastic crap .... that is the question.

But what exactly are you considering 'plastic crap?'

What Tan essentially did was clone Wrexham's identity in order to promote Cardiff as "Wales" / Welsh, yes? Had Tan bought Wrexham and bankrolled them ridiculously to the Premier League, how many threads in a season would we have had about them instead? Because, in my eyes, that'd be a far more distasteful use of money in football.

That's essentially what Wigan are, what Fulham are, tiny clubs that have been rolled up to the Prem by an owner who either had sentimental reasons or just saw a chance to turn a profit. Yet, for the most part, we let it go. There's others, too, where were Hull without investment? Or Peterborough? The absolute worst of the worst is probably Hoffenheim yet I can barely remember them getting a mention on this forum.

That's what frustrates me more than anything when the subject of Cardiff comes up time and again. It seems you can do anything with money in this sport and the English fanbase will shrug it off. Then the second you **** with their shirt all hell breaks loose. We really need to grow up as supporters if that's the biggest trauma we can think of.

Red Bull are systematically buying their way in to every, single sport world wide in order to sell a soft drink and nobody gives a toss. But Cardiff City have red shirts instead of blue shirts this season? RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE! Good Lord. I'd expect my missus to pick her football teams by who has the prettiest kit but not the "hardened" supporters.

And, for the record, changing from blue to red hasn't brought Cardiff success. Malky Mackay has brought Cardiff success and he deserves a lot of credit for it. They've been there or there abouts for years now and what they've lacked is a bit of steel, a bit of good organisation and he's given them that. They don't have a team full of multi-million pound players that Tan's brought them, in fact their spend looks pitiful compared to what Top and Sven spent here.

Didn't Gunnarsson move on a free? Campbell cost them about half of what Vardy cost us - think about that one for a bit. Kim cost them about what we paid for Yuki, Whitt, Marshall, McNaughton and co have been there for years, Turner cost less than a mill (we paid how much for Mills?) and Bellers was free. Gestede peanuts, Noone mil or less, Conway free, Cowie free, etc.

I'm sure I'm going to be accused of being biased or a closet Cardiff fan for the umpteenth time but if people are going to continue to spill rubbish I'm going to keep ranting. I'm sorry but our obsession with them just makes us look bitter, they really couldn't give a toss and I don't blame them. I wouldn't.

[Simmo86]

Leeds changing their kit to white was done under Revie, I believe.

Not sure that it suggests the club wasn't good enough before. All they are doing is 'rebranding' the kit/nickname in a way, not the stadium, the club or its history. In the case of this argument, surely is comparable? My point is, as well, that Cardiff arn't the only team to have done it.

Not saying in any way that I'd be happy if we changed our name and got promoted. (Cardiff haven't changed their name have they, it's only their nickname?). All I'm saying is, I know you're all going to say Pompey, but let's be honest, if it came to it, you wouldn't select League Two over the top flight.

Leeds changed their kit because the manager wanted them to look like Real Madrid.

Cardiff changed their kit + nickname all because some Malaysian bloke promised them a load of cash!

Sell outs!

[anotherharboroughfox]

People are really saying they'd prefer to be where Pompey are this forum.

fan owned? with a chance to rebuild their club for the fans, and hopefully build a sustainable club.

Yep I'd rather have that anyday.

[Fox92]

Leeds changed their kit because the manager wanted them to look like Real Madrid.

Cardiff changed their kit + nickname all because some Malaysian bloke promised them a load of cash!

Sell outs!

Football is run by money (or near enough).

Some Malaysian bloke changed their kit colour (with that their nickname), massive wow. Guess what? Not only only has that brought them cash, it's also brought them top flight football.

[Mark_w]

Personally I'd rather support Portsmouth. Partly down the colour change, mainly because the expectation of fans is almost certainly a lot lower at Portsmouth, and fans who expect their club to win every week and who feel the need to moan and boo their team whenever they fail to win is what I hate about being a Leicester fan. I also just imagine that watching League Two football is a lot more enjoyable than watching Premier League football, maybe that's unfair but a lot of the stuff that surrounds the Premier League I really don't enjoy.

Cardiff. They changed their kit and badge, big whoop. People bang on about Leeds as if they're some footballing Goliath but they've done both of those things.

I'd rather support Shepshed Dynamo than MK Dons, who bought themselves a league position, but Cardiff are just Cardiff. Same fans, same city, same ground, same memories.

You could call us Leicester Foxes, Leicester Fosse, whatever. Play is in green, red, yellow, I don't care. I'd still remember Muzzy's overhead kick, Heskey's equalizer at Wembley, Coatsworth against Luton. A club is the people, the city, the history.

The rest is just aesthetic. I've had this argument numerous times and I know I'm in the minority, given up trying to convince anyone. I know I'm supposed to be appalled and to get upset about "modern football" and to wank off over camp tifo displays and any club from somewhere vaguely exotic waving a flare but I just don't feel it.

If LCFC price me out, I'll be angry. If the owners rinse us to get rich and leave us bankrupt, I'll be angry. But anyone who'd stop going PURELY because of a change to kit colour? I'm going to use a phrase the cool kids like.... You're not a real fan.

I get that you don't care about the colour of the kit, but you'd be stupid to support these owners who have already abused the emotions of a football fan potentially losing their club to get their own way (based on what I've read from Cardiff fans that's what has happened), because they're basically free to do that over any issue and maybe the next one you would care about. Plus whilst this was a nice chance for you to rant about people disliking the colour change again you've actually made no attempt to suggest why you'd rather support Cardiff than Portsmouth which is really the point of the thread.

[Guest Bilo]

Portsmouth.

Visiting interesting grounds with real fans week in week out, cheap tickets, absolutely no plastic fans, surely a good chance of promotion, knowing the club hierarchy care about your opinion and the potential of having a say in the way your club is run. I don't care if you're playing Accrington and Morecambe every week, that's an irresistible package to me.

If I was a Cardiff fan, I'd be waking up with a roaring hangover this morning and would be delighted with promotion. I'd still feel utterly detached from my club, would still feel uneasy about the red shirts, would still feel uneasy about being seen as 'customers' by a Malaysian out to make my club a cash cow and would be likely be less than happy about Premiership when I'm paying £40 to watch my club being annihilated every week. How much would you want to slap Tan when he's doing the Ayatollah when you're 3-0 down at home to Wigan? Probably with Sven in the dugout busily bankrupting the club cos Mackay's got the push?

I know which set of fans will have the more fun next season, and that's what following footie is all about.

[Ford Super Sunday]

Well done Finnigan for talking sense in this thread.

Applause all round.

[21st Century Fox]

This guy's not pleased....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/17/cardiff-city-promoted-died-last-summer

[Harry - LCFC]

But what exactly are you considering 'plastic crap?'

What Tan essentially did was clone Wrexham's identity in order to promote Cardiff as "Wales" / Welsh, yes? Had Tan bought Wrexham and bankrolled them ridiculously to the Premier League, how many threads in a season would we have had about them instead? Because, in my eyes, that'd be a far more distasteful use of money in football.

That's essentially what Wigan are, what Fulham are, tiny clubs that have been rolled up to the Prem by an owner who either had sentimental reasons or just saw a chance to turn a profit. Yet, for the most part, we let it go. There's others, too, where were Hull without investment? Or Peterborough? The absolute worst of the worst is probably Hoffenheim yet I can barely remember them getting a mention on this forum.

That's what frustrates me more than anything when the subject of Cardiff comes up time and again. It seems you can do anything with money in this sport and the English fanbase will shrug it off. Then the second you **** with their shirt all hell breaks loose. We really need to grow up as supporters if that's the biggest trauma we can think of.

Red Bull are systematically buying their way in to every, single sport world wide in order to sell a soft drink and nobody gives a toss. But Cardiff City have red shirts instead of blue shirts this season? RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE! Good Lord. I'd expect my missus to pick her football teams by who has the prettiest kit but not the "hardened" supporters.

And, for the record, changing from blue to red hasn't brought Cardiff success. Malky Mackay has brought Cardiff success and he deserves a lot of credit for it. They've been there or there abouts for years now and what they've lacked is a bit of steel, a bit of good organisation and he's given them that. They don't have a team full of multi-million pound players that Tan's brought them, in fact their spend looks pitiful compared to what Top and Sven spent here.

Didn't Gunnarsson move on a free? Campbell cost them about half of what Vardy cost us - think about that one for a bit. Kim cost them about what we paid for Yuki, Whitt, Marshall, McNaughton and co have been there for years, Turner cost less than a mill (we paid how much for Mills?) and Bellers was free. Gestede peanuts, Noone mil or less, Conway free, Cowie free, etc.

I'm sure I'm going to be accused of being biased or a closet Cardiff fan for the umpteenth time but if people are going to continue to spill rubbish I'm going to keep ranting. I'm sorry but our obsession with them just makes us look bitter, they really couldn't give a toss and I don't blame them. I wouldn't.

The red shirts alone are the "plastic crap" bit, nothing else. Their investment doesn't concern me anywhere near as much as it hasn't been that extensive. Plus, that investment has not degraded their status as a respectable club - The shirt change most definitely has on the other hand.

Personally, I don't know how you can disregard the shirts a club wears, that's their identity, that's what you look at and think "hey, that's Cardiff. I know that team."

And by the way, I hate Wigan. I get very tired of their persistent survival in the PL and want them relegated asap. We can talk about investment all day but I'd prefer to stay on the topic of Cardiff. I don't like money being poured into teams but I'm not going to moan too much as I hope FFP will sort that out.

[Finnegan]

Personally I'd rather support Portsmouth. Partly down the colour change, mainly because the expectation of fans is almost certainly a lot lower at Portsmouth, and fans who expect their club to win every week and who feel the need to moan and boo their team whenever they fail to win is what I hate about being a Leicester fan. I also just imagine that watching League Two football is a lot more enjoyable than watching Premier League football, maybe that's unfair but a lot of the stuff that surrounds the Premier League I really don't enjoy.

I get that you don't care about the colour of the kit, but you'd be stupid to support these owners who have already abused the emotions of a football fan potentially losing their club to get their own way (based on what I've read from Cardiff fans that's what has happened), because they're basically free to do that over any issue and maybe the next one you would care about. Plus whilst this was a nice chance for you to rant about people disliking the colour change again you've actually made no attempt to suggest why you'd rather support Cardiff than Portsmouth which is really the point of the thread.

I think it's spectacularly obvious that the "point of the thread" was to have another moan about Cardiff being a soulless club and to try and act vaguely superior in the wake of their promotion. It smacks of bitterness and it's rife on this forum at the moment, partly because a bunch of the morons that post on here goaded the Cardiff fans they know are (or were) reading by telling them they'd bottle it and then.. lo' and behold... we bottled it. Spectacular.

If you want to pretend that that's not what the OP was getting at and he just RANDOMLY picked Cardiff and Portsmouth out of the sky and just HAPPENS to want to know which of the two RANDOM clubs we'd rather support? Well obviously Cardiff. Portsmouth are a nasty little club with a strange obsession with us who, in my life time, made stupid attempts to start trouble with our fans. I don't really like Pompey. By contrast, Cardiff - whilst also having a fair disabled contingent in their supportbase - are from the capital city of my country of birth and I naturally have a bit of bias.

Happy?

As for Tan and his ethics, I'm not actually defending him as an owner. I do think he's fairly atrocious and I'd be very concerned if I was a Cardiff fan, I find him an alarming example of the dangers of money in the game. However, I refuse to jump on the bandwagon of pretending the kit change suddenly makes the club a soulless, heartless, shambles that immediately has no history or legacy because a shirt's a different hue. And I'm certainly not going to suggest their fans are no longer proper, honest supporters because they've just gone along with it.

[Samilktray]

Give me a Nike kit and premier league football and our owners can have us playing in pink and yellow stripes for all I care.

[Finnegan]

This guy's not pleased....

http://www.guardian....ied-last-summer

But I know plenty of people who feel that way about Leicester.

I work with a bunch of blokes from about their thirties up to their fifties, I'm largely the baby on site, and a lot of them will check the score occasionally but have no interest in going to the KP. To them that's "plastic", "soulless" and alien.

They've never gotten over the move from Filbert Street or the concepts of "family club", "persistent standing" and whatever else. They don't want to pay thirty odd quid for tickets to sit in puerile atmospheres and watch effeminate metrosexuals, driving executive sports cars, roll around the floor on thirty grand a week.

[Donut]

Id have to say it would get pretty boring if everyone connected with the club was more focused on making sure there were no significant changes to our clubs history or heritage than on trying to move the club forward or win things.

I think the Portsmouth notion is a bit romantic, real grounds and real fans etc.......but i want to see this club as a permanent fixture in the premiership because that is SUCCESS