Guest MattP Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Got to save the whitewash now :xmassad: Yep. Rest assured the Australian selectors won't be as feeble as ours were when they the Woakes and Kerrigan in in the dead rubbers.
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 There must be 2,000 Aussies max in the ground, in England we would easily fill a ground on a weekdayon the verge of winning as ashes series. Take a day off, ring in sick, students, kids, self employed, pensioners. Where are they? It's an absolutely pathetic turnout. Embarrassing. Your grounds hold like 2000 easy to fill.
cambridgefox Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Best team won( again) some players ,if not the majority need to have a look at themselves.No good raising your game now the pressure is off. Might look at the test averages for both teams later.That should be amusing.
FoxyPV Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 I was up listening to the cricket hoping for a controlled dogged batting display which lasted all of 15 minutes. Prioir threw his wicket away and once Stokes went there was a sense of inevitability about the collapse. Australia have been far and away the better team.
purpleronnie Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Time to wipe the slate clean and get rid......will it happen though?
leicsmac Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Pretty abject stuff. They just wanted it more than us. To be honest the writing was probably on the wall once Trott had to go home. Here's hoping that we can at least put up something of a fight in the last two Tests and then look to the future. Think that wholesale changes would be a really bad idea - one batting lineup needs to be decided upon and carried into the next couple of series. Oh, and I thought there wasn't a worse example of gutter press in the world than the UK stuff - then I saw the Aussie rags.
Guest MattP Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Time to wipe the slate clean and get rid......will it happen though? Harsh, the side was unbeaten for a year before this tour and had only lost once in 17 tests. A couple of changes yes but you dont need to go ripping the side apart after three bad games, Cook, Root, Bell, KP, Anderson, Broad, Swann are still World Class players (though Swanns form is worrying) and far better than anything coming through, if we can get Stokes, Bairstow, Ballance and a bowler to go with them its still the base of a good side. Finding a number three could be the biggest problem, they may even gand it over to Sam Robson. Very early but a possible Ashes 2015 side, think this is the retirement series for KP, Anderson and Swann and they would deserve a chance to put this right unless their form completely collapses (or Kerrigan develops into a World Class spinner) Tymal Mills is the best young bowling in the country and will hopefully be ready by then, a left arm seamer would also play into the hands of an off spinner if we are retaining Swann. Cook Root Robson KP Bell Stokes Bairstow (wk) Broad Swann Anderson Mills
surrifox Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 no need to dismantle the side IMO - if there was a rematch in UK in the Summer I would expect England to win again albeit not 3-0 . Supporters travelling to see the last 2 tests deserve to see more from an England team and changes are required even involving established players: Prior out Bairstow in Prior is a fine player and won't be finished but his neurotic batting appears to have unsettled the whole lower order in 2 series now and coupled with some execrable keeping in this match its hard to see how Bairstow could do worse . Swann out Monty in Not an easy choice given Monty's extra 5th XI fielding and uselessness with the bat but Swann is never as good against RHB as lefties and his all round game has been poor - to be out bowled by Lyon says it all. Anderson out (probably) Finn in It doesn't mean the end for Jimmy but the argument for retaining him has no real traction given the way that even the likes of Bailey can now get after him on a supposedly fast bouncy track. Finn is supposed to leak runs but does get wickets , Jimmy is doing the first but not the second. I have a sense that all 3 loath and are loathed by the opposition- unfortunately that seems to have stopped them thinking clearly about their cricket. I would also consider batting KP at 5 with Root and Bell at 3 and 4 - Root was unlucky with at least one decision here and has the temperament to succeed, if KP's strategy of bullying the bowling is to be successful he needs to do it when the ball is old and the attack tiring . Another poor match from one of these three and I might think of giving Ballance a go.
leicsmac Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Harsh, the side was unbeaten for a year before this tour and had only lost once in 17 tests. A couple of changes yes but you dont need to go ripping the side apart after three bad games, Cook, Root, Bell, KP, Anderson, Broad, Swann are still World Class players (though Swanns form is worrying) and far better than anything coming through, if we can get Stokes, Bairstow, Ballance and a bowler to go with them its still the base of a good side. Finding a number three could be the biggest problem, they may even gand it over to Sam Robson. Very early but a possible Ashes 2015 side, think this is the retirement series for KP, Anderson and Swann and they would deserve a chance to put this right unless their form completely collapses (or Kerrigan develops into a World Class spinner) Tymal Mills is the best young bowling in the country and will hopefully be ready by then, a left arm seamer would also play into the hands of an off spinner if we are retaining Swann. Cook Root Robson KP Bell Stokes Bairstow (wk) Broad Swann Anderson Mills Like the look of that side but wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Prior just yet. He's had an awful series no doubt, but given what he's done in the past he deserves a little more time before he gets dropped. Is Root really cut out for opening? We need another Tresco (minus the touring problems of course) - someone who can go destructive ala Sehwag or Warner and take on opening bowlers. Is there anyone like that in the county ranks? Edit: As an aside, does anyone else agree with Jonathan Agnew that this has been a really chippy series in terms of what's gone on on and off the field? Some of the sledging and lack of respect in all corners has been pretty nasty. I think the Aussies decided to make this a 'war' in their terms and we bought into it. And they were simply better at it, which added to the mental edge.
Guest MattP Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Like those changes Surri but I still can't be having Monty in the team, It's bad enough being beat by the Australians without them lying back and laughing at our "athletes" as well. Like the look of that side but wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Prior just yet. He's had an awful series no doubt, but given what he's done in the past he deserves a little more time before he gets dropped. Is Root really cut out for opening? We need another Tresco (minus the touring problems of course) - someone who can go destructive ala Sehwag or Warner and take on opening bowlers. Is there anyone like that in the county ranks? Edit: As an aside, does anyone else agree with Jonathan Agnew that this has been a really chippy series in terms of what's gone on on and off the field? Some of the sledging and lack of respect in all corners has been pretty nasty. I think the Aussies decided to make this a 'war' in their terms and we bought into it. And they were simply better at it, which added to the mental edge. No doubt in my mind Root is an opener or a number 3. Think he'll be wasted down the order. If we want an aggressive opener I suppose James Vince at Hampshire will be the one. Still no idea why he wasn't called in instead of Carberry to be honest. They were the opening pair for Hampshire, Carbs averaged 42 over the season and Vince 61.
Captain... Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 It's not just Swann's form that is worrying though. Prior's form is very worrying, but even more so is the form of Cook, 16 Ashes innings without a century, out scored by Bairstow in the Summer Ashes, and only just averaged more than Bresnan, Broad and Swann. Are we assuming we will never see Trott again? Carberry doesn't look like a long term (or short term) answer, KP is a maverick that may have played one rash shot too many. I'm not concerned about Anderson as this is one bad tour, more concerned that we have gone back to Bresnan as Finn, Tremlett, Rankin all look poor.
Guest MattP Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Edit: As an aside, does anyone else agree with Jonathan Agnew that this has been a really chippy series in terms of what's gone on on and off the field? Some of the sledging and lack of respect in all corners has been pretty nasty. I think the Aussies decided to make this a 'war' in their terms and we bought into it. And they were simply better at it, which added to the mental edge. Nastiest Ashes I've seen, were some rumours Warner might be banned for the 4th test, a few on Twitter saying he was getting on at Broad about his Mum which if true is way below the belt. That said they are big boys and should be ready for that, we certainly look a bit weaker on that front with players like Root and Monty in. That's one reason why I like the Stokes, Collingwoods, KP's, they should be up for a fight on and off the pitch as well if need be.
leicsmac Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Like those changes Surri but I still can't be having Monty in the team, It's bad enough being beat by the Australians without them lying back and laughing at our "athletes" as well. No doubt in my mind Root is an opener or a number 3. Think he'll be wasted down the order. If we want an aggressive opener I suppose James Vince at Hampshire will be the one. Still no idea why he wasn't called in instead of Carberry to be honest. They were the opening pair for Hampshire, Carbs averaged 42 over the season and Vince 61. I think Root is an ideal no.3 but just not sure about him opening. Will have to keep an eye on Vince - badly need someone who can get us off to a quick start to a Test. Nastiest Ashes I've seen, were some rumours Warner might be banned for the 4th test, a few on Twitter saying he was getting on at Broad about his Mum which if true is way below the belt. That said they are big boys and should be ready for that, we certainly look a bit weaker on that front with players like Root and Monty in. That's one reason why I like the Stokes, Collingwoods, KP's, they should be up for a fight on and off the pitch as well if need be. Warner is a crude thuggish **** - he should have been up before the beaks for chinning Root when he was over here. No wonder they didn't congratulate him on his big scores. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Twitterati were right about that one. I think Root is capable of looking after himself out there - it's similar to Bell who copped no end of flak in 2005 but has grown into a brilliant player since and I think he's tougher than he looks. Monty I agree is an easy target though. To be honest we made a mistake in getting into the gutter with the Aussies as they're better at it than we are.
surrifox Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 ha ha - absolutely right re Monty - I can't believe I suggested him - watching him in the field makes the veins in my head throb! We need to find a decent spinner to replace Swann though eventually. I had very high hopes when he first started for Adil Rashid of Yorkshire - played for the county at 17 as a brilliant prospect but never fulfilled his promise as a bowler - very useful lower order bat too. Whatever the selectors were smoking when they picked Kerrigan I have no idea
leicsmac Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 ha ha - absolutely right re Monty - I can't believe I suggested him - watching him in the field makes the veins in my head throb! We need to find a decent spinner to replace Swann though eventually. I had very high hopes when he first started for Adil Rashid of Yorkshire - played for the county at 17 as a brilliant prospect but never fulfilled his promise as a bowler - very useful lower order bat too. Whatever the selectors were smoking when they picked Kerrigan I have no idea Not sure about this - Kerrigan had been very good on the county circuit and deserved his chance. Throwing him in at the deep end in the way it happened was harsh and has probably killed his England career, which is a shame as we need an able replacement for Swann pretty soon.
surrifox Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Warner is real knuckle dragger no doubt about that . watch his antics when Root is at the crease and in particular waiting for the review in 1st innings and it borders on psychosis . Still it's a no lose gamble picking on the youngest and least aggressive member of the opposition
Guest MattP Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 ha ha - absolutely right re Monty - I can't believe I suggested him - watching him in the field makes the veins in my head throb! We need to find a decent spinner to replace Swann though eventually. I had very high hopes when he first started for Adil Rashid of Yorkshire - played for the county at 17 as a brilliant prospect but never fulfilled his promise as a bowler - very useful lower order bat too. Whatever the selectors were smoking when they picked Kerrigan I have no idea No idea what happened to Rashid, was very promising at one point, turned into a one day specialist now. Looking back the selections of Kerrigan and Woakes were a disgrace. We were 3-0 up, we should have been battering them into the ground or at least trying to. No chance will the selectors of Australia do that to us this month. EPP Squad. Moeen Ali (Worcestershire) Danny Briggs (Hampshire) Jos Buttler (Somerset) Varun Chopra (Warwickshire) Ben Foakes (Essex) James Harris (Middlesex) Chris Jordan (Sussex) Simon Kerrigan (Lancashire) Alex Lees (Yorkshire) Tymal Mills (Essex) Jamie Overton (Somerset) Sam Robson (Middlesex) Reece Topley (Essex) James Vince (Hampshire) The ones highlighted are the ones who I have think have real ability to play at the top level and no spinner in there. Have a bad feeling when Swannt goes we will be back to the old days of having second rate spinners like Dawson, Such and Udal rotating. We might be slagging off Swann at the minute but I bet its a long time before we find a spinner who averages sub 30 bowling again in test cricket.
surrifox Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Not sure about this - Kerrigan had been very good on the county circuit and deserved his chance. Throwing him in at the deep end in the way it happened was harsh and has probably killed his England career, which is a shame as we need an able replacement for Swann pretty soon. the selectors watch these players in all conditions and have the roles they do because they are supposed to be experienced and knowledgeable cricket watchers . This guy's stock is so low that he is not even required for the ODIs or the 20 x 20 squad why put someone into a test match arena in the remaining test before an important tour with no prospect of picking them? His international record prior to the Oval was 3 wickets in 3 matches against Bangladesh at an average of 46
leicsmac Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 No idea what happened to Rashid, was very promising at one point, turned into a one day specialist now. Looking back the selections of Kerrigan and Woakes were a disgrace. We were 3-0 up, we should have been battering them into the ground or at least trying to. No chance will the selectors of Australia do that to us this month. EPP Squad. Moeen Ali (Worcestershire) Danny Briggs (Hampshire) Jos Buttler (Somerset) Varun Chopra (Warwickshire) Ben Foakes (Essex) James Harris (Middlesex) Chris Jordan (Sussex) Simon Kerrigan (Lancashire) Alex Lees (Yorkshire) Tymal Mills (Essex) Jamie Overton (Somerset) Sam Robson (Middlesex) Reece Topley (Essex) James Vince (Hampshire) The ones highlighted are the ones who I have think have real ability to play at the top level and no spinner in there. Have a bad feeling when Swannt goes we will be back to the old days of having second rate spinners like Dawson, Such and Udal rotating. We might be slagging off Swann at the minute but I bet its a long time before we find a spinner who averages sub 30 bowling again in test cricket. If we don't find a quality spinner to replace Swann when he leaves we'll be in a very very bad place. It's a necessity in any Test team, especially when visiting the subcontinent.
leicsmac Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 the selectors watch these players in all conditions and have the roles they do because they are supposed to be experienced and knowledgeable cricket watchers . This guy's stock is so low that he is not even required for the ODIs or the 20 x 20 squad why put someone into a test match arena in the remaining test before an important tour with no prospect of picking them? His international record prior to the Oval was 3 wickets in 3 matches against Bangladesh at an average of 46 Totally agree the selectors made a mistake - they should have put him through his paces in shorter form. Dropping him in against two Aussie openers performing brutally was never going to end well. Still think that he deserved a chance, but they went about it in entirely the wrong fashion.
Guest MattP Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 If we don't find a quality spinner to replace Swann when he leaves we'll be in a very very bad place. It's a necessity in any Test team, especially when visiting the subcontinent. Bizarrly we could be going into it with Root as our best spinner.
Captain... Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 Bizarrly we could be going into it with Root as our best spinner. Would have been intetresting to have used him instead of Monty at Adelaide, I do wonder how much time if any they are spending on developing his bowling.
FoxyPV Posted 17 December 2013 Posted 17 December 2013 They were talking on TMS about Cook possibly dropping down to 3 whilst retaining the captaincy to ease the pressure on him and moving Root up to opener. Any thoughts?
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