Leeds Fox Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 I'm not sure anyone has brought this up before, if so I apologise and feel free to merge/delete this. The feeling I get from most on this forum is that Nige is relinquished from any blame to how much players are paid, which is most likely the correct way to see it. As he and Walsh hand the list of 'wanted' players to one of the businessmen, and contracts are sorted out by these men in suits. Yet he gets praise for lowering the wage bill, and getting rid of the unwanted players. Surely is just doing the same thing, only in reverse. Handing a list of unwanted players to someone further up the chain. So as it seems (from my point of view, which could be entirely incorrect) Nigel is in a no-lose situation in the monetary aspects of transfers in and out of the club, in the eyes of us fans. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollism Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 The praise that Nigel deserves is for building a good team that can compete for promotion with limited funds. Not seen anyone praising him in particular for offloading Beckford/ sending him and Danns to Huddersfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Fox Posted 14 July 2013 Author Share Posted 14 July 2013 I probably should've mentioned that I am very much behind Nige and think he's doing a good job with what's available to him. It's not his fault how people perceive him, it just seems some are have a very rose tinted view of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 oh. Another thread discussing Pearson. There's just no telling where this thread will go!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 oh. Another thread discussing Pearson. There's just no telling where this thread will go!! 4th page we will be talking about if Sven was given enough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theessexfox Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 4th page we will be talking about if Sven was given enough time. I think he was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 Personally i'd be extremely surprised if Pearson and his team aren't consulted regarding fair value for fees and wages for transfer targets. There are transfer budgets and salary budgets involved - the manager would want control over where that budget is spent. This idea of the "suits" being responsible for transfer fees and wages is just some bullshit people have come up with so they can blame the owners and club management for Sven's ludicrous spending. It's a nonsense theory. They may do the negotiating but the manager sets the limits - the manager is the person ultimately responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod hero Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 I'm not sure anyone has brought this up before, if so I apologise and feel free to merge/delete this. The feeling I get from most on this forum is that Nige is relinquished from any blame to how much players are paid, which is most likely the correct way to see it. As he and Walsh hand the list of 'wanted' players to one of the businessmen, and contracts are sorted out by these men in suits. Yet he gets praise for lowering the wage bill, and getting rid of the unwanted players. Surely is just doing the same thing, only in reverse. Handing a list of unwanted players to someone further up the chain. So as it seems (from my point of view, which could be entirely incorrect) Nigel is in a no-lose situation in the monetary aspects of transfers in and out of the club, in the eyes of us fans. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod hero Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 Pearson needs to deliver this season, lets not forget he himself is on £1m a year and is probs second top earner at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzy Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 Personally i'd be extremely surprised if Pearson and his team aren't consulted regarding fair value for fees and wages for transfer targets. There are transfer budgets and salary budgets involved - the manager would want control over where that budget is spent. This idea of the "suits" being responsible for transfer fees and wages is just some bullshit people have come up with so they can blame the owners and club management for Sven's ludicrous spending. It's a nonsense theory. They may do the negotiating but the manager sets the limits - the manager is the person ultimately resphow how the hell would you know that unless your one of the suits at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 how the hell would you know that unless your one of the suits at the club You don't need to be one of the suits to know that a manager of a football club decides how his transfer and salary budgets are spent, and for that to happen he needs to set limits on how much he is prepared to pay for individual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad the Fox Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 Personally i'd be extremely surprised if Pearson and his team aren't consulted regarding fair value for fees and wages for transfer targets. There are transfer budgets and salary budgets involved - the manager would want control over where that budget is spent. This idea of the "suits" being responsible for transfer fees and wages is just some bullshit people have come up with so they can blame the owners and club management for Sven's ludicrous spending. It's a nonsense theory. They may do the negotiating but the manager sets the limits - the manager is the person ultimately responsible. I can even remember Sven saying in an interview that he goes to the board and says 'I want that player and he will cost you this much.' He then went on to discuss that it was his responsibility to make sure the owners got value for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 Personally i'd be extremely surprised if Pearson and his team aren't consulted regarding fair value for fees and wages for transfer targets. There are transfer budgets and salary budgets involved - the manager would want control over where that budget is spent. This idea of the "suits" being responsible for transfer fees and wages is just some bullshit people have come up with so they can blame the owners and club management for Sven's ludicrous spending. It's a nonsense theory. They may do the negotiating but the manager sets the limits - the manager is the person ultimately responsible. MooseBreath becomes voice of reason part 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzy Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 You don't need to be one of the suits to know that a manager of a football club decides how his transfer and salary budgets are spent, and for that to happen he needs to set limits on how much he is prepared to pay for individual players. well that's where i think you might be wrong about how much a player will get. the manager would tell the board who he would like to buy and they then would say to him well you can offer this amount of wage. it comes down to the suits on the finaces not the manager. the problem is the board messed up and need to take a long hard look at themselves before blaming sven, as for the fans as well who blame him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 Pearson doesn't exactly deserve praise I mean the only success of sorts he has had here is winning League One and with that team and sources available to him that was to be expected. He has got us into the playoffs twice, 1 of which wasn't expected considering it was our first season back in the Championship the other one, well I think it was more than expected, it was the minimum requirement, really we should have been looking above and beyond the playoffs, but we only just got there, at the end of the day we did get there and that's what counts, however we made a big hash of it and although some people think it can be disregarded and ignored about our 2nd half od last season, it cannot, it needs to be addressed simple as that and to see how the coming season pans out will be very interested, we have to hit the ground running and we need to do it consistantly all season. I'm a Pearson fan and until last season I didn't have anything I could question about him, but last season he did make some strange decisions, I am still a Pearson fan though, however he needs to get it right this season. Like I said he doesn't deserve praise as such, I mean he's not done that much, however he's done more than most manager that have came here, He's certainly the best manager we've had since Micky Adams and in my lifetime of supporting LCFC he's in the top 3 managers I have seen at LCFC, O'Neill and Adams being the other two, but it tells you everything you need to know about the manager's we have had here really doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 Matt I think the OP is talking about praise about one particular thing as mentioned, rather than in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_Numan Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 well that's where i think you might be wrong about how much a player will get. the manager would tell the board who he would like to buy and they then would say to him well you can offer this amount of wage. it comes down to the suits on the finaces not the manager. the problem is the board messed up and need to take a long hard look at themselves before blaming sven, as for the fans as well who blame himYou're just assuming it's all working the same way as it did under Sven.Pearson is a much more hands on manager and I very much doubt he shows a player round the club and then just hands over all control over the financial side of a transfer to the suits. He will have set limits on what he's prepared to pay. How many interviews did we see last season where he was saying he was very aware of the margins and what we can and can't do in terms of bringing players in? This thread just seems like an attempt to take any credit away from Pearson and to exonerate Sven. Would Sven lovers like to explain to the rest of us what he actually did at the club apart from write a list? His coaches took the training sessions so what did he do all day? Little wonder he was always available for the media, he probably rang them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 well that's where i think you might be wrong about how much a player will get. the manager would tell the board who he would like to buy and they then would say to him well you can offer this amount of wage. it comes down to the suits on the finaces not the manager. the problem is the board messed up and need to take a long hard look at themselves before blaming sven, as for the fans as well who blame him There will and should be constant dialogue between both parties. The manager will need to know what someone is earning roughly. At the end of the day he's the guy with his neck on the block so he will want to know how much of his budget is being spent. He is also in charge of team moral, having two players of similar ability on vastly different amounts can lead to problems, as it does in all workplaces. The person doing the leg work in negotiations will need to know from the manager what they think someone is worth, they are a suit not a football expert there to judge a players worth. People constantly try and separate the two things putting blame or praise on one party or the other. It would take little time from either sides day to chat about a target and say what we can / can't afford, what a player is worth roughly. It's not like you sign hundreds of players a year, it's a relatively small number of transactions and would be incredibly easy to sort between both sides. If the board or manager try and take away input from one side or the other then they are idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 I wouldn't call it "praise", but given the difficult circumstances, mainly in financial terms and by having to operate with a team including many not so motivated players on ridiculous wages, he's done a good job so far. The transition period should be over by now, though. And I expect Pearson to deliver in the upcoming season. He's now had one and a half campaigns to work it out, implement his style of play and work with a core squad for most part. It's now or never. With a few loanees coming in, one can see it coming together nicely. I'm hopeful we can get places - the very top will be unlikely, but we should be able give all teams a real test. I don't care whether people like the gaffer or not - he's done a professional job, he's not a man of many words, but whenever there's a personal statement out, he comes across as very level-headed and thoughtful. Compared to the odd characters we had at the helm before, it's quite a breath of fresh air, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 It's all about opinion. Praise him if you want, or nothing. His job is limited at the minute, and he's stuck with certain players on big wages who he can't shift. It's a difficult job imo, looking at it, we didn't go up, and we can't really improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 It's all about opinion. Praise him if you want, or nothing. His job is limited at the minute, and he's stuck with certain players on big wages who he can't shift. It's a difficult job imo, looking at it, we didn't go up, and we can't really improve. Since when are you allowed one of those on here?! (Especially when it's not the same opinion as the majority) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 4th page we will be talking about if Sven was given enough time. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 The manager is handed a budget and identifies players / offloads players based on the resources available to him. A manager doesn't simply turn up and say 'right I want to bring in Yakubu and Vassell' only to discover that their wages are a hundred times higher than the board can pay. The board wanted to spend big and up their profile, so in 2010 Sven fit the bill better than NP. And he, within that remit, identified targets at the right price. Sven isn't responsible for the massive debts we accrued (unless we blame him for the shortfall in revenue caused by our failure to go up). That responsibility rests with the owners. However neither the board nor Neville were responsible for the fact that Sven's signings (and, to a lesser extent, Pearson's) weren't very good. If I recall correctly, Neville's main role was to double check the 'suitability' of signings and negotiate the finer points of their contracts. Whereas Sven's signings failed to perform on the pitch, I can only think of Matt Mills and Michael Johnson who created a massive fuss off it. In that respect Neville surely did quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 I'm not sure anyone has brought this up before, if so I apologise and feel free to merge/delete this. When I saw the thread title and then read this as the first line my brain nearly exploded. Since when are you allowed one of those on here?! (Especially when it's not the same opinion as the majority) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grewks Posted 14 July 2013 Share Posted 14 July 2013 At the end of the day any respectable manager would be aware of what wage a player would demand when signing. Sven knew the sorts of wages his signings were on, and the decision to offer king, gally, etc improved deals only further proved this. Pearson is very much aware of the types of wages his signings are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.