Leicester using workfare

[catfordfox]

So are these people, paid in benefits. At least they are activly doing somthing rather than sat on their arses watching Jeremy Kyle or playing on the xbox. It honestly dosnt matter if they are getting paid less than minimum wage. Doing something with your life is better than nothing at all.

 

i dont think anyone should be 'paid' the equivalent of £2 an hour by the state to work for a private company who are in it to make a profit. In any case, JSA is not a wage, its the bare minimum needed to survive.

[blueonyou]

Getting unemployed bums off their backside and doing something is a good idea, they should earn their JSA if they are physically able to.

 

There really are plenty of jobs in this country, there's just a lack of desire for a lot of unemployed people to do them. Really do you think we'd have so many migrant workers here if our own unemployed could be bothered to do "any job".

 

Oh and I've read the OP mention UK welfare spending a few times now, please do your homework it's not as clear-cut as your newspaper makes you believe. The statistics are how you interpret and what metrics you use. Check out the OECD and Eurostat findings, you'll see that the UK's public welfare spend is anywhere from just below average to the highest in the EU.

[Bayfox]

Isn't the real point to this that the goverment are actually trying to make it look as if people are doing something for their benefits.

I understand how it looks ridiculous that they are working for huge organisations for what looks like penuts.

However what proportion of these people have lost jobs when they had mortgages, mouths to feed, bills to pay etc. Or how many are long term unemployed who have no real interest in working?

Now theres a stat i would like to know.

My dad lost his job in his 20's and never worked again. Just had 3 more kids and tax payers funded his lifestyle.

His daughter works. His lads just took his example and pretty much do **** all.

I moved in with my step dad. He set me an example of work ethic and having to earn my own way. I used to work summer holidays to pay for my season ticket.

I may lose my job at the end of the year and thats shit. But i hope the fact that i am in a routine of doing 12 hour days and grafting stands me in good stead.

I'd happily go clean a few seats to keep me away from daytime tv.

Granted this scheme may not work for everyone. But if it helps just a few people think, look i can do something with my day. But i must be able to earn more and show ambition. Is that a bad thing?

[Sly]

Can I also ask if you know they are cleaning seats? Or was this just a guess at what they are doing? Also just to point out Wellens is no longer with us so we are not paying his wages, unless he has resigned?

 

Pretty sure Wellens would have agreed a severance package. So in the long term, we have paid out less than we would in the long term wage wise for the duration of his contract. 

[leicsmac]

Getting unemployed bums off their backside and doing something is a good idea, they should earn their JSA if they are physically able to.

 

There really are plenty of jobs in this country, there's just a lack of desire for a lot of unemployed people to do them. Really do you think we'd have so many migrant workers here if our own unemployed could be bothered to do "any job".

 

Oh and I've read the OP mention UK welfare spending a few times now, please do your homework it's not as clear-cut as your newspaper makes you believe. The statistics are how you interpret and what metrics you use. Check out the OECD and Eurostat findings, you'll see that the UK's public welfare spend is anywhere from just below average to the highest in the EU.

 

No, they should earn the minimum wage that the law entitles them to if they are physically able to. That's pretty much the entire argument.

 

There's no problem with people working and getting off benefits, but offer them real jobs - not half-arsed six-month positions paid for by Government cash for a company that gets all the benefit of a worker but doesn't have to fork out a penny.

[catfordfox]

Oh and I've read the OP mention UK welfare spending a few times now, please do your homework it's not as clear-cut as your newspaper makes you believe. The statistics are how you interpret and what metrics you use. Check out the OECD and Eurostat findings, you'll see that the UK's public welfare spend is anywhere from just below average to the highest in the EU.

 

Half of all welfare spending is on pensions. Only 3% goes on JSA. Huge amounts of the welfare budget is spent on topping up the wages of  working people who don't get a wage they can live on from their job.

[blueonyou]

No, they should earn the minimum wage that the law entitles them to if they are physically able to. That's pretty much the entire argument.

 

There's no problem with people working and getting off benefits, but offer them real jobs - not half-arsed six-month positions paid for by Government cash for a company that gets all the benefit of a worker but doesn't have to fork out a penny.

I think the point is a lot of these people have/will be offered work at minimum wage and above but refuse/choose not to work - that's the real problem.

 

Also, as I think someone else has already eluded to, if you combine the totals of JSA and all the other various benefits and discounts the unemployed receive, you'll probably find it's the same if not more than minimum wage, hence the whole issue of many people choosing not to work because it's financially more beneficial to stay on benefits.

[RowlattsFox]

I like how everyone thinks every unemployed person sits on their arse all day watching Jeremy Kyle. I have nothing against the scheme but it has to be aimed at the right people but in my experience it isn't. It should be aimed at long term unemployed as a way of bridging gap in employment history, and should have an end to it. In Blackpool where I work, people are sent to places like Home Bargains for a 6 week period and not taken on, and Home Bargains will just take someone else for 6 weeks and so on.

 

It is easy for people on here to say they'd be happy to do this, but I reckon many peoples mind would change. I personally would be unimpressed if the job centre decided to send me on something like this, I could use the time more effectively to apply for jobs. I am a keen advocate of volunteering, and would gladly do something useful and interesting but I don't see how cleaning a football stadium is going to help me.

 

on the subjects of agency, many job seekers will not join agencies due to the way the benefit system is. It is simply not worth the hassle of signing off and signing back on again 2 days later, and also applying for housing benefit every week because you don't know whether you'll have work or not. Also agencies will not take people without recent employment history's.

[MrSpaM]

i dont think anyone should be 'paid' the equivalent of £2 an hour by the state to work for a private company who are in it to make a profit. In any case, JSA is not a wage, its the bare minimum needed to survive.

 

And why have you got a problem with people working for it rather than doing nothing at all?

 

I always had it drilled into me as a kid that I should earn every penny I get, If I was made redundant for any reason, I'd go and find another job, it's as simple as that. I have friends on benefits who turn down jobs every week, it's not that the jobs aren't there for people, many people just have this stupid mindset now that they are too good to do menial jobs. I'd also like to point out that people are only put on schemes like this when they have been turning work down for x amount of months. These are people that have been offered work and turned it down.

[theessexfox]

And why have you got a problem with people working for it rather than doing nothing at all?

 

I always had it drilled into me as a kid that I should earn every penny I get, If I was made redundant for any reason, I'd go and find another job, it's as simple as that. I have friends on benefits who turn down jobs every week, it's not that the jobs aren't there for people, many people just have this stupid mindset now that they are too good to do menial jobs. I'd also like to point out that people are only put on schemes like this when they have been turning work down for x amount of months. These are people that have been offered work and turned it down.

That's an important point. 

[blueonyou]

Half of all welfare spending is on pensions. Only 3% goes on JSA. Huge amounts of the welfare budget is spent on topping up the wages of  working people who don't get a wage they can live on from their job.

Source?

 

This is no different to other EU countries. My point was that depending on how you process the data, the UK spending in comparison to other EU countries will vary substantially

[kylestyle06]

I like how everyone thinks every unemployed person sits on their arse all day watching Jeremy Kyle. I have nothing against the scheme but it has to be aimed at the right people but in my experience it isn't. It should be aimed at long term unemployed as a way of bridging gap in employment history, and should have an end to it. In Blackpool where I work, people are sent to places like Home Bargains for a 6 week period and not taken on, and Home Bargains will just take someone else for 6 weeks and so on.

 

It is easy for people on here to say they'd be happy to do this, but I reckon many peoples mind would change. I personally would be unimpressed if the job centre decided to send me on something like this, I could use the time more effectively to apply for jobs. I am a keen advocate of volunteering, and would gladly do something useful and interesting but I don't see how cleaning a football stadium is going to help me.

 

on the subjects of agency, many job seekers will not join agencies due to the way the benefit system is. It is simply not worth the hassle of signing off and signing back on again 2 days later, and also applying for housing benefit every week because you don't know whether you'll have work or not. Also agencies will not take people without recent employment history's.

 

Wrong.

 

I have took on 100's of people within 8 years who have no experience what so ever. Some of these people are now working in a warehouse for £20,000pa.

 

If you're keen , enthusiastic, and are good at the job you're asked to do, there will be no reason to keep signing off and on.

 

Your mentality is the reason why you're unemployed.

[leicsmac]

I think the point is a lot of these people have/will be offered work at minimum wage and above but refuse/choose not to work - that's the real problem.

 

Also, as I think someone else has already eluded to, if you combine the totals of JSA and all the other various benefits and discounts the unemployed receive, you'll probably find it's the same if not more than minimum wage, hence the whole issue of many people choosing not to work because it's financially more beneficial to stay on benefits.

 

So offer them the work again. If they take it then you can take them off all the other benefits too. If they don't offer them one more option and after that eliminate their benefits. End of problem. This is a halfarsed solution that benefits no one other than the companies getting a free ride.

 

 

And why have you got a problem with people working for it rather than doing nothing at all?

 

I always had it drilled into me as a kid that I should earn every penny I get, If I was made redundant for any reason, I'd go and find another job, it's as simple as that. I have friends on benefits who turn down jobs every week, it's not that the jobs aren't there for people, many people just have this stupid mindset now that they are too good to do menial jobs. I'd also like to point out that people are only put on schemes like this when they have been turning work down for x amount of months. These are people that have been offered work and turned it down.

 

I grow tired of repeating myself. 

 

I have no problem with people earning their money. I have a problem with them taking money out of everyones taxes when they are working for a company that should be paying them minimum wage at least. As I said above, this is a halfarsed stopgap.

[catfordfox]

Wrong.

 

I have took on 100's of people within 8 years who have no experience what so ever. Some of these people are now working in a warehouse for £20,000pa.

 

If you're keen , enthusiastic, and are good at the job you're asked to do, there will be no reason to keep signing off and on.

 

Your mentality is the reason why you're unemployed.

 

so 5% Leicester's population suddenly developed a bad 'mentality' coincidentally just as the financial crash and recession happened?! come on, that's not how capitalism works is it - more jobs during the boom, fewer jobs during a recession. Not the workers' fault, they just bear the consequences.

 

plenty of official stats here: http://www.redpepper.org.uk/mythbuster-welfare-reform/

 

The government's argument for these schemes is that so people gain work experience and can get in to work, not that theyre used as a punishment (even though the mandatory element means that's exactly what it is). I tihnk you get put on these schemes after a certian amount of time unemployed, regardless of whether any work has turned up. And again, i think its ridiculous that the state pays for people to stack shelves for massive companies, including football clubs.

[MrSpaM]

So offer them the work again. If they take it then you can take them off all the other benefits too. If they don't offer them one more option and after that eliminate their benefits. End of problem. This is a halfarsed solution that benefits no one other than the companies getting a free ride.

 

 

 

I grow tired of repeating myself. 

 

I have no problem with people earning their money. I have a problem with them taking money out of everyones taxes when they are working for a company that should be paying them minimum wage at least. As I said above, this is a halfarsed stopgap.

 

It's work experience, It's not a job. You shouldn't expect to be paid for doing work experience.

 

I did work experience when I was 16 for two weeks, absolutely loved it, and didn't get paid a penny. Taught me a lot more than shoving 40 quid in my pocket for nothing would.

 

Your also missing the point somewhat, the people doing this work have been offered minimum wage jobs and turned them down, they are only put on the workfare scheme after they've been turning down jobs that are offered to them for months and months.

[kylestyle06]

You're not grasping that I'm saying there is a job for everyone if they look for it , and actually want to work. I don't care what them statistics say i'm telling you there is work for people that want it.

 

You don't understand, so good luck with what you're doing... as Duncan Bannatyne would say, I'm out.

[blueonyou]

What about internships? they are often not paid at all and run by very large companies. Should all interns be paid minimum wage?

 

I think it's a silly argument.

 

The issue isn't the scheme, nor is it entirely the unemployed people.

 

The problem is the culture that's been created in this country over the last 40 years.

[leicsmac]

It's work experience, It's not a job. You shouldn't expect to be paid for doing work experience.

 

 

What about internships? they are often not paid at all and run by very large companies. Should all interns be paid minimum wage?

 

I think it's a silly argument.

 

The issue isn't the scheme, nor is it entirely the unemployed people.

 

The problem is the culture that's been created in this country over the last 40 years.

 

Work experience/unpaid internships are a dark art that shouldn't be legal in the first place and basically allow free labour for companies. If a company wants you to work for them (even if doing on-the-job training while working) you are still contributing to the output of the company and therefore should be paid for your services in the same way a regular worker at the company would. Not as much, obviously (as you're at the bottom of the food chain), but again, at least minimum wage or above.

 

I understand some think differently, however.

[sphericalfox]

Is this the scheme we'll be using next year to fill the squad? 

[blueonyou]

Work experience/unpaid internships are a dark art that shouldn't be legal in the first place and basically allow free labour for companies. If a company wants you to work for them (even if doing on-the-job training while working) you are still contributing to the output of the company and therefore should be paid for your services in the same way a regular worker at the company would. Not as much, obviously (as you're at the bottom of the food chain), but again, at least minimum wage or above.

 

I understand some think differently, however.

 

You never had a free trial of anything?

[Strokes]

i dont think anyone should be 'paid' the equivalent of £2 an hour by the state to work for a private company who are in it to make a profit. In any case, JSA is not a wage, its the bare minimum needed to survive.

And I don't think you should get £65 per week, for nothing. Sure there has to be a middle ground, but the pendulum has been swung their way for far too long. I can understand the delight tbh.

[catfordfox]

And I don't think you should get £65 per week, for nothing. Sure there has to be a middle ground, but the pendulum has been swung their way for far too long. I can understand the delight tbh.

 

if unemployment benefit had kept pace with earnings since the 70s, it would be £110 a week today. So there's basically been a real terms cut in the rate of unemployment benefit of around 40% since 1979. You can argue that's a good thing if you like, but you can't argue that that's an example of 'the pendulum swinging their way for far too long'.

[leicsmac]

You never had a free trial of anything?

 

Just those bits of cake at the supermarket. 

 

However...I'm not sure what kind of analogy you're going for here. I'm not really sure you can equate products with people.

[Haydos]

Work experience/unpaid internships are a dark art that shouldn't be legal in the first place and basically allow free labour for companies. If a company wants you to work for them (even if doing on-the-job training while working) you are still contributing to the output of the company and therefore should be paid for your services in the same way a regular worker at the company would. Not as much, obviously (as you're at the bottom of the food chain), but again, at least minimum wage or above.

 

I understand some think differently, however.

 

Devils advocate here, I'm a bit on the fence with it.

 

If companies are offering entry/below entry positions and offering a low wage for it and there are people that want to fill those positions then why shouldn't that be okay?

[hackneyfox]

Wasting your time catfordfox, seems they're a bunch of tory lovers on here who have fallen hook, line and sinker for the tory lie that thousands are receiving over 2500 per month in benefits and they are the 3rd generation of their family to have never worked.