Andy king?

[The Doctor]

I think stating that King has been the mainstay of a midfield that has for five years, never achieved even a play off final, despite having millions of pounds pumped into the squad doesn't really make a particularly strong argument does it?

If you want 'facts', look at assists for example. King's contribution in this area, for the past two/three seasons has been below average.

I don't think he even appeared in the top 20 'assisters' last season? Yet this is the player who you yourself, believes to calmly control a midfield.

Stats like assists are crucial. They indicate the KEY passes made to players in the final third. I believe Ben Marshall was our top player in this respect last season. A fact completely ignored by most I would suspect.

 

Assists bear no relevance to control of the midfield, it simply shows who played the pass to the goalscorer - if a player wins the ball in the centre, moves it across to the winger who puts in a cross for the forward to score, has that player got an assist? No. Has he controlled the midfield and done his job to a tee? Yes.

[Guest Col city fan]

Assists bear no relevance to control of the midfield, it simply shows who played the pass to the goalscorer - if a player wins the ball in the centre, moves it across to the winger who puts in a cross for the forward to score, has that player got an assist? No. Has he controlled the midfield and done his job to a tee? Yes.

That's the point.

In a game, like yesterday, where their full backs had our wide men pretty much pinned-in, it then becomes the role of the creative centre midfielder to have the guile and the craft to 'assist' the strikers themselves. King has, in recent times, been woeful (as backed up by stats) in taking up this mantle. Compare this to a player like Craig Bryson at Derby, and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Again, I am a fan of King as I've said many times over. I like his loyalty and his calmness. But if he's the key player that many suggest him to be, he would 'step up' on a far more consistent basis and take games by the scruff of their neck. King IMO is and always has been that second man in midfield who needs the stronger midfielder to play well around him. If both are off their game, it shows.

Incidentally, the man who many claim to 'have no final product' is actually our top 'Assister' this season... Lloyd Dyer.

[Number 6]

I think king is a classy player. Him and Drinkwater have worked well together this season and have tidied things up. King was poor yesterday but he isn't all of a sudden a poor player.

[Guest ttfn]

It wouldnt be an opinion if it was factual.

Eh?

There are opinions based on facts and opinions not based on facts.

For instance, I think Luis Suarez is the best striker in the Premier League. This is an opinion based on the FACT that he is the joint top scorer. But it is still an opinion and open to debate. Equally you could have an opinion that Aaron Wilbraham Is the best striker in the Premier League but it wouldn't be based on facts .

An opinion based on fact is 1000 times more relevant than one which is not.

[TJB-fox]

If you think Andy king is good then think about Mark Davies and Tom cleverly on loan. There are better centre mids out there. Far better. If we had signed Andy king in the summer no one would have him in the line up. It's because he came through the academy. Wake up people.

sorry are you stupid? Were Leicester ffs we're not going to have an England international(seniors) on our books, do you want Wilshere too? As for Davies, wasn't he at Bolton before they got relegated? So again, he would have chose them over us given the choice.

[Haydos]

This isn't just due to the result today but I just don't get him I'm sorry! Going to get slaughtered for this but oh well. It seems as though no one ever says bad of him because he's been here so long and came through the academy. He's a favourite for a lot of people and I understand that. But I just seriously do not and have never rated him! He's a superb finisher and has a habit of being in the right position. But so much of his game is poor! I'm not being funny but if we ever get promoted to the premiership he is the first player that needs replacing! Where's the tough tackling and power that i personally like in midfield. Wheres the leadership for a centre mid? You can get away with being invisible for large parts in the championship but put him in the premiership and we would lose nearly every game. Too invisible for me and he never does much. If he's that good then why has another club never come in for him.

Was excellent against Watford, how come you didn't bring this up then? Or at any other time this season? There's literally zero evidence or even examples in your post other than the usual 'he's invisible'. He's a no nonsense, unspectacular midfielder, he's not going to stand out that much. How often do you think he's had a bad game? Given the ball away loads? Sloppy positioning? Lazy running? It's rarely.

[foxfanazer]

Been excellent this season........ next!

[Monsell1976]

My opinion is supported by facts. Yours isn't supported by anything.

You have no facts just opinions, get over it some of you rate king, others don't, the manager picks the side and obviously is happy with him, end of debate.

If you think he's good enough to warrant a regular spot in the side, good for you, but I don't think he's all that, I don't think he is shit, just an average championship player who has the tendency to missing, IN MY OPINION.

Wether you like my opinion or not I don't care, and just because you think it's "guff", I still stick by my opinions

[Lambert09]

Yesterday is probably the only time this season ive been disappointed by him. King is for me one of our most important players, he does all the work a defensive mid would do but also gets involed in attacks and pops up with a fair few goals. Players who dont appreciate king imo just arent taking into account all the work he does for the team, if you watched him for a whole game and ignored the rest you would start to see how much he does, even in the games where he `is invisible'

[dmayne7]

The point I was making is that the OP was getting criticised, supposedly for making comments about King on the back of today's game. ie. a knee-jerk reaction.

Criticising King isn't knee-jerk! He's an average Championship midfielder like the above post quite rightly says.

If he was of Premiership ability, he would play in the Premiership. I've sometimes questioned why if King was so good, is he not a regular Wales starter? Well doesn't David Vaughan often keep him out? And he plays for Forest!

No, I like King, I respect him. He's a decent player. He's a loyal servant to the club. But that central midfield needs sorting once and for all IMO.

 

Well, clearly you hadn't seen him play for some time. http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/84757-interesting-january/page-4. You go through that and tell me you knew about him.

 

But if you consider the fact that there are 6 new teams in the league every year, then that's kind of suggesting that he's only good enough for a side that would rank 9th/10th out of the 18 remaining teams so clearly you don't rate him. By describing him as average, that means you clearly don't rate him. Well, its actually Ramsey, Allen and Ledley that keep him out and that's because they're playing PL/CL football. Wales tend to play better when he starts games. Only have to look at their 2 most recent results to see that.

 

Of course, you're right that trying to 'explain' Andy King to me is going to a waste of time because you're not going to change my opinion on him. I know his shortcomings and there is some biased that will affect my judgement but ultimately I've spent enough time watching King to know that he is integral to us. How exactly does the midfield need sorting out. We've got 4 different types of player in there with 2 experienced midfielders. Its the least important are for us to change at the moment. We get promoted, then yes we'll need to change it but for now, no.

[Guest Col city fan]

Yesterday is probably the only time this season ive been disappointed by him. King is for me one of our most important players, he does all the work a defensive mid would do but also gets involed in attacks and pops up with a fair few goals. Players who dont appreciate king imo just arent taking into account all the work he does for the team, if you watched him for a whole game and ignored the rest you would start to see how much he does, even in the games where he `is invisible'

Again, I'm afraid not borne out of evidence/stats.

King has become a midfielder who actually doesn't score many goals.

7 last season.

This season so far? 1 I believe?

Not prolific really.

This, for me, has been one of the biggest disappointments in King in recent times. He's so bound up in defensive duties that his attacking game has suffered... Both in terms of goals made for others and goals scored himself.

[dmayne7]

Yesterday is probably the only time this season ive been disappointed by him. King is for me one of our most important players, he does all the work a defensive mid would do but also gets involed in attacks and pops up with a fair few goals. Players who dont appreciate king imo just arent taking into account all the work he does for the team, if you watched him for a whole game and ignored the rest you would start to see how much he does, even in the games where he `is invisible'

 

Bingo. And this is where I admit my love for the guy comes into play. When I'm at matches I often spend time watching Kingy when play is in a bit of a lull and you can see exactly what he does. 1 step ahead of everybody else.

[dmayne7]

Again, I'm afraid not borne out of evidence/stats.

King has become a midfielder who actually doesn't score many goals.

7 last season.

This season so far? 1 I believe?

Not prolific really.

This, for me, has been one of the biggest disappointments in King in recent times. He's so bound up in defensive duties that his attacking game has suffered... Both in terms of goals made for others and goals scored himself.

 

Fair point on the goals/assist front but as you've said, he's pinned down by defending. Is that his fault? No its not. He's a box to box midfielder and I honestly believe that goalscoring is not one of his best skills. There is so much more that he does, that I would put above goals. The thing is though, he still has the ability to score a lot of goals.

[Guest Col city fan]

Bingo. And this is where I admit my love for the guy comes into play. When I'm at matches I often spend time watching Kingy when play is in a bit of a lull and you can see exactly what he does. 1 step ahead of everybody else.

Nope. A midfielder who was 'one step ahead of everyone else' would be sought after by Premiership clubs. He would clearly be quality... Obviously better than other players in the team AND in the division. He would set up goals and he would score goals. He would consistently have other clubs sniffing around.

What King is is a consistent Championship midfielder, no more, no less. And has been for 5 or so years.

You are making him out to be Glenn Hoddle. I'm afraid he's miles off..

[dmayne7]

Nope. A midfielder who was 'one step ahead of everyone else' would be sought after by Premiership clubs. He would clearly be quality... Obviously better than other players in the team AND in the division. He would set up goals and he would score goals. He would consistently have other clubs sniffing around.

What King is is a consistent Championship midfielder, no more, no less. And has been for 5 or so years.

You are making him out to be Glenn Hoddle. I'm afraid he's miles off..

 

Yeah I did compare him to England greats didn't I... Well, according to your theory, you wouldn't rate him in the top 50/60 centre midfielders in this league and we're going to have to replace every single player in our squad if we get promoted because they don't play in the premiership, therefore are nothing better than 'average' championship players.

[Guest ttfn]

Luka Modric is absolutely shit. Never scores or assists goals.

[dmayne7]

Luka Modric is absolutely shit. Never scores or assists goals.

 

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

The fvck do you expect him to do about it. It's not as if he was speaking with authority either, he was doubting the intentions of the topic.

No he wasn't. He said he only read the one line, and then that which was unread, was a pack of lies. The bloke isn't very clever.

[Guest Col city fan]

Yeah I did compare him to England greats didn't I... Well, according to your theory, you wouldn't rate him in the top 50/60 centre midfielders in this league and we're going to have to replace every single player in our squad if we get promoted because they don't play in the premiership, therefore are nothing better than 'average' championship players.

Agree to disagree buddy.. You seem to really rate King, I don't think he's as good as you seem to think he is.

Bout sums it up for me..

[ScouseFox]

Some (mainly one) reeeeal idiots in this thread.

[Number 6]

2 goals so far this season. Puts him on track for 6 or 7. I don't think that's a bad return to be honest. Vardy only has 4 and Wood 1, for perspective.

[fleckneymike]

It's not perfect but who scored will have all the stats people might want to mangle to back up a view

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/721167/Live

[Bluetintedspecs]

I'm a King fan and I'd have to agree, anybody who thinks he is a premiership quality player either doesn't watch the prem or is looking through their blue and white specs.

Where can I get them from?

[Soup]

It seems me that if anybody criticises King they seem to be jumped on and told that they know nothings about football,as if the King lovers are being insulted for this and must tell us all about how great he is.People seem over protective of him,a bit like a weedy brother.People see different things in all players,as do managers but the King debate has the most polar opposites,it makes me laugh.I personally never have favourite players,it's enough for me to follow my team up and down the country,i love it when we win hate it when we lose.Do people actually study him off the ball were he supposing does his best work.Now that is a bit sad really,do we all want to be pundits.Not me thanks,I want a few beers and good sing song and to jump up and down when we score.I shall do this until my time is up,and won't bother debating which player is best.Boring.

[fleckneymike]

It seems me that if anybody criticises King they seem to be jumped on and told that they know nothings about football,as if the King lovers are being insulted for this and must tell us all about how great he is.People seem over protective of him,a bit like a weedy brother.People see different things in all players,as do managers but the King debate has the most polar opposites,it makes me laugh.I personally never have favourite players,it's enough for me to follow my team up and down the country,i love it when we win hate it when we lose.Do people actually study him off the ball were he supposing does his best work.Now that is a bit sad really,do we all want to be pundits.Not me thanks,I want a few beers and good sing song and to jump up and down when we score.I shall do this until my time is up,and won't bother debating which player is best.Boring.

 

Thanks for that.