leicsmac Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 There is a choice. I chose my job, teachers chose theirs. We can all choose to find another job if we don't like the one we've got. Or choose to argue and fight for the pay and conditions promised when first taken on the job, rather than storming out. Obviously in a smaller private company you can have a quiet chat with the boss and he/she can tell you exactly why the belts have got to be tightened at your particular company and negotiate appropriately, but in the public arena who is there to negotiate with? Of course that's flying in the face of the whole national-cohesion, "we're all in this together" stuff, but hey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katieakita Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Moosebreath, So what do you do for a living? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Obviously in a smaller private company you can have a quiet chat with the boss and he/she can tell you exactly why the belts have got to be tightened. Teachers don't read newspapers, watch the news or talk to their headteachers?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Teachers don't read newspapers, watch the news or talk to their headteachers?! What can any of those do about actually physically negotiating changing their pay or conditions? Those just give soundbites about why (apparently) the country has no public purse any more and everyone (apparently) has to lump it. I support them because Gove is an idiot and we need to make teaching more appealing not less appealing a profession for genuinely capable people to go into. This is something to remember too. The argument of 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys' is good enough for the finance industry, so it should be good here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 I'm related to a few teachers so I get the sentiments of the poster posting about his OH. But I also agree with mooseys sentiment. I think what causes teachers to complain alot is how they are perceived by others and especially the media. They feel like the tide is against them. They DO work long hours. But when I worked in a school ( admittedly it was a special needs school) I refused to strike as I didn't think that was fair on the kids. And I still think the same now. Striking won't achieve anything anyway... the education department will probably just dissapeared from the media questions for the day anyway. Or they'll use the day to attack teachers. But what it will also do is inconvenience alot of parents who will have to take the day to stay home and look after their kids- alot of people will be effected by a dispute that isn't even theirs. Their dispute could well be genuine- I don't know enough about it to say otherwise...but there are other ways if going about it. What about a work to rule policy? Refusing to do marking or lesson planning at home unless it's paid? That would probably get changes done much more quickly... but I don't think that will happen as it will greatly inconvenience the teachers. And that's the problem I have with them striking- it seems to be the easy option that inconveniences others more than themselves. I'm sure they won't be keen on losing the money but the other option I mentioned would effect them more and that's why they don't want to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicesterpool Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Notice how if a parent takes a kid out of school its a criminal offence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Or choose to argue and fight for the pay and conditions promised when first taken on the job, rather than storming out. Obviously in a smaller private company you can have a quiet chat with the boss and he/she can tell you exactly why the belts have got to be tightened at your particular company and negotiate appropriately, but in the public arena who is there to negotiate with? Of course that's flying in the face of the whole national-cohesion, "we're all in this together" stuff, but hey... They can strike if they like but they cant demand sympathy, for what looks at least on the outside, a pretty decent number. We are well within our rights as members of the community and as taxpayers, to feel they are not entitled to what they demand and pass comment. The very same teacher tell us we face fines for taking the children out of school for our benifit but dont think the same conditions apply here. Personally i couldnt care whether they strike or not, my opinion on the profession wont change much. It doesnt effect me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Notice how if a parent takes a kid out of school its a criminal offence! Intresting point. But when a teacher does, it's their right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingari Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 i'd hate to spend my days with a bunch of moaning , snotty nosed, mardy arsed, dim witted , self centred . ill disciplined spoilt brats who never want to do anything but get laid by the opposite sex . I feel sorry for the students Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 i'd hate to spend my days with a bunch of moaning , snotty nosed, mardy arsed, dim witted , self centred . ill disciplined spoilt brats who never want to do anything but get laid by the opposite sex . i'm so glad i'm not a student anymore Why do you spend so much time on FT then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 So you should do a job you do not like for 50 years? TBH I don't know much about what the teachers do or do not do having no kids. My brother was a teacher when he left uni. This was back in the 70's so it would have hanged. He enjoyed it and taught maths physics to 12-15 year olds. He did a lot of school activities not for pay but because he cared about the job and it encouraged the kids to do extra too. He marked homework at home whih he was not paid for. As far as I know the pay covers the breaks. He progressed until he finished up as head of a year at a school in Cumbria.He packed in when an application for deputy head was turned down over a woman just out of University and went into the B/B finishing up co owner of a hotel and then selling up to retire and live on the proceeds of the sale. His missus was a nursery teacher and now does part time marking for the exam board. It is a choice and it takes some dedication to do the job well. My brother could easily have not put the effort or his spare time but he wanted to see kids do well. One of his first schools was in inner London where there were classrooms of kids who thought toeducation and maths was boring but he made the lessons interesting enough for some to do after school extra lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 What can any of those do about actually physically negotiating changing their pay or conditions? Those just give soundbites about why (apparently) the country has no public purse any more and everyone (apparently) has to lump it. I personally do think public pensions are struggling. It's unrealistic to think the government can now pay the same pensions they did to people barely expected to get past 70. Mind you, with the current health of the nation (and myself) we'd do well to get to that age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 I'm related to a few teachers so I get the sentiments of the poster posting about his OH. But I also agree with mooseys sentiment. I think what causes teachers to complain alot is how they are perceived by others and especially the media. They feel like the tide is against them. They DO work long hours. But when I worked in a school ( admittedly it was a special needs school) I refused to strike as I didn't think that was fair on the kids. And I still think the same now. Striking won't achieve anything anyway... the education department will probably just dissapeared from the media questions for the day anyway. Or they'll use the day to attack teachers. But what it will also do is inconvenience alot of parents who will have to take the day to stay home and look after their kids- alot of people will be effected by a dispute that isn't even theirs. Their dispute could well be genuine- I don't know enough about it to say otherwise...but there are other ways if going about it. What about a work to rule policy? Refusing to do marking or lesson planning at home unless it's paid? That would probably get changes done much more quickly... but I don't think that will happen as it will greatly inconvenience the teachers. And that's the problem I have with them striking- it seems to be the easy option that inconveniences others more than themselves. I'm sure they won't be keen on losing the money but the other option I mentioned would effect them more and that's why they don't want to do it. This probably would be a better idea than a general strike. Balanced post. They can strike if they like but they cant demand sympathy, for what looks at least on the outside, a pretty decent number. We are well within our rights as members of the community and as taxpayers, to feel they are not entitled to what they demand and pass comment. The very same teacher tell us we face fines for taking the children out of school for our benifit but dont think the same conditions apply here. Personally i couldnt care whether they strike or not, my opinion on the profession wont change much. It doesnt effect me. This is true, as a taxpayer you're well within your rights to comment on people who are being paid out of the public purse. However...there is a certain amount of ignorance from many people regarding the profession itself and that shows in what they say (much of it peddled by the media) that rightly gets on the nerves of teachers. I agree that striking is not the best way to solve something like this, and I hope every other option was considered beforehand. I personally do think public pensions are struggling. It's unrealistic to think the government can now pay the same pensions they did to people barely expected to get past 70. Mind you, with the current health of the nation (and myself) we'd do well to get to that age. No disagreement there, but can you blame people for getting annoyed over being denied the conditions they were promised because of other peoples mistakes and carelessness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Or choose to argue and fight for the pay and conditions promised when first taken on the job, rather than storming out. Obviously in a smaller private company you can have a quiet chat with the boss and he/she can tell you exactly why the belts have got to be tightened at your particular company and negotiate appropriately, but in the public arena who is there to negotiate with? Of course that's flying in the face of the whole national-cohesion, "we're all in this together" stuff, but hey... Yes you could do that too. I do sympathise with people whose conditions have been changed. But an increase in retirement age is nothing unexpected. Everybody's state pension age has increased and will probably continue to increase. Shall we all strike? No because we understand why it needs to be done. Teachers moving onto performance related pay sounds like a great idea to me. I'm sure we all remember those teachers who couldn't really care less at school, and those who really earned their money. Anything that rewards those who genuinely work hard should surely be a welcome move for all these supposedly hard working teachers, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphericalfox Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Moosebreath, So what do you do for a living? He's a professional troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katieakita Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 I run a Post Office so some of you will be the ones telling the rigged opinion polls that it is a good idea for me to work an extra 30/40 hours a week. Mrs is a teacher and won't strike but are they just supposed to accept this "we are all in it together crap." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphericalfox Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 They can strike if they like but they cant demand sympathy, for what looks at least on the outside, a pretty decent number. We are well within our rights as members of the community and as taxpayers, to feel they are not entitled to what they demand and pass comment. The very same teacher tell us we face fines for taking the children out of school for our benifit but dont think the same conditions apply here. Personally i couldnt care whether they strike or not, my opinion on the profession wont change much. It doesnt effect me. deffo not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 At his last school my brother also went in before the term started to help set the curriculum. He was paid no extra for doing it. He did like the breaks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisNedry Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 I don't think many (sensible) people think most teachers don't work hard and don't care about their students. They do get paid well though and the holidays can't be ignored, so I don't think they have much to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Yes you could do that too. I do sympathise with people whose conditions have been changed. But an increase in retirement age is nothing unexpected. Everybody's state pension age has increased and will probably continue to increase. Shall we all strike? No because we understand why it needs to be done. Teachers moving onto performance related pay sounds like a great idea to me. I'm sure we all remember those teachers who couldn't really care less at school, and those who really earned their money. Anything that rewards those who genuinely work hard should surely be a welcome move for all these supposedly hard working teachers, no? If anyone could come up with a definitive, unbiased way in measuring the performance of teachers that took into account all the varying factors surrounding schools and quality of students, I'd agree with you. Do we just use exam results and seeing long hours being worked as a measure of productivity and therefore performance? Edit: And I also agree with the pension stuff. The belt needs to be tightened (or so it is said), but as I said earlier you can't really blame people for getting annoyed over changes in conditions that were down to someone elses screwup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katieakita Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 If anyone could come up with a definitive, unbiased way in measuring the performance of teachers that took into account all the varying factors surrounding schools and quality of students, I'd agree with you. Do we just use exam results and seeing long hours being worked as a measure of productivity and therefore performance? Ask some on here or Gove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Different shools will have different students obviously. An inner City school won't attract the best teachers if they think they will be marked down because of the attitude of students but a school in suburbia will be more beneficial to them if less challenging. So the poorer schools will be left with the crap teachers and no-hope students destined for a life on JSA having not being motivated by unmotivated teachers. Not everyone will see it like this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 deffo not and thats why i hate teachers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoWW Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 Teachers don't read newspapers, watch the news or talk to their headteachers?! We don't have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 23 March 2014 Share Posted 23 March 2014 I've heard they read the Gruadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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