Guest Col city fan Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 Holland WERE lucky there because, having somehow made it to penalties, the whole thing then becomes a lottery. Krul then pulls off a couple of saves and literally saves the day. The reaction of the Dutch players, both during and after, was of a bunch who knew they had gotten out of jail. The game should have been over well before then.
Finnegan Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 Ugh, I ****ing hate the term "lottery" in relation to penalties. Worst cliché in football. Penalties level the playing field and give lesser teams a chance because you don't need to be Messi or Ronaldo to score one. To that extent, as a fan, it can feel like flipping a coin. Anyone could score or miss. But as a player it most certainly is not luck. It's bottle, focus, determination, technique, mind games, decision making. If it was luck, Lampard would have a success rate more like David Nugent and managers wouldn't give a shit which five they sent up. There was nothing lucky about last night. The Dutch took excellent, well composed penalties and their manager completely psyched out the Costa Ricans by sending on his tallest keeper as a "specialist" even though we know he has no track record of being one.
MooseBreath Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 Ugh, I ****ing hate the term "lottery" in relation to penalties. Worst cliché in football. Penalties level the playing field and give lesser teams a chance because you don't need to be Messi or Ronaldo to score one. To that extent, as a fan, it can feel like flipping a coin. Anyone could score or miss. But as a player it most certainly is not luck. It's bottle, focus, determination, technique, mind games, decision making. If it was luck, Lampard would have a success rate more like David Nugent and managers wouldn't give a shit which five they sent up. There was nothing lucky about last night. The Dutch took excellent, well composed penalties and their manager completely psyched out the Costa Ricans by sending on his tallest keeper as a "specialist" even though we know he has no track record of being one. Thanks for that trip into the mind of world cup penalty takers there. So much depth of understanding. I feel educated now. Thanks again.
Guest Col city fan Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 Ugh, I ****ing hate the term "lottery" in relation to penalties. Worst cliché in football. Penalties level the playing field and give lesser teams a chance because you don't need to be Messi or Ronaldo to score one. To that extent, as a fan, it can feel like flipping a coin. Anyone could score or miss. But as a player it most certainly is not luck. It's bottle, focus, determination, technique, mind games, decision making. If it was luck, Lampard would have a success rate more like David Nugent and managers wouldn't give a shit which five they sent up. There was nothing lucky about last night. The Dutch took excellent, well composed penalties and their manager completely psyched out the Costa Ricans by sending on his tallest keeper as a "specialist" even though we know he has no track record of being one. How many penalties have you taken! The keeper has a 50/50 chance of diving the right way, that's pretty much luck (or are you suggesting that the keeper/taker KNOW which way they are going to go)? The penalty taker can slip, the goalie can slip, the ball can ricochet off the keeper's body and either fly in or fly wide. Sure, you can be trained in technique. But how many of the Dutch players last night were trained penalty takers? Like Lampard? Van Gaal simply chucked in a big man, hoped and prayed... and it worked! That's all he did. None of this 'psyched out' gubbins. Would you have not done the same thing? Yes, there are good and bad penalties.. there is also lady luck. I have seen so many teams who were better in the 120 minutes than their opponents who then crash out in the penalties. That was clearly what the Costa Ricans were playing for.. why? because penalties are pretty much a lottery. . Cliche or not. Evidence of the 'lotteryness' of a penalty shoot out comes from the bookies. Before that game last night, The Dutch were big favourites to win. Then extra time and the odds plummetted. Then penalties and the odds plummetted still further. Again, for people who are somehow suggesting that Van Gaal was some sort of master-tactician, if he was last night, he'd have got his team forward quicker during open play, not defended so deeply and not had his team restricted to relatively few chances. Lobbing on a bigger bloke to take penalties.. big deal! If anyone psyched-out the opposition it was Krul. I wonder if Van Gaal told him to? Finally, re. Pablo's post above.. do you think that was Van Gaal's game-plan? to play-out for a naught-naught draw and hope to sneak through on penalties? He was VERY close to allowing Costa Rica (albeit a Costa Rica side full of endeavour and discipline) to achieve possibly the biggest upset in World Cup football ever? I doubt that was his game plan and if he would have gone-out, the papers would have been writing a completely different story this morning.
AKCJ Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 To be fair, the Dutch penalty line up was excellent. RVP Robben Sneijder Kuyt Huntelaar They're always likely to score 4/5 out of 5.
Super_horns Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 Again an impressive set of penalties. TBF Krul went the right way for all of the Costa Rica ones and put them off which I guess might be seeing as unsporting but he'll say its trying to gain an advantage. Bold move by Van Gaal though.
Guest Col city fan Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 To be fair, the Dutch penalty line up was excellent. RVP Robben Sneijder Kuyt Huntelaar They're always likely to score 4/5 out of 5. Wasn't something said last night about how Holland have never gone through before on penalty shoot-outs? Despite having had world-class players time and time again? They are known (I think) as a nation of 'bottlers' when it comes to quarters and semi's (like we are). Last night, it clicked for whatever reason.
Mark_w Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 The decision discussed on the TV was that of bringing Krul, no one was giving him plaudits for drawing 0-0 with Costa Rica. Which like it or not turned out to be a good, reasonably impressive managerial decision. Now, you have tried to discredit that by giving it the "well done you've drawn with Costa Rica" (something totally unrelated to what he was being credited for) line and that is what I am arguing. Regardless of what players they have, they've seen off 4 of the top 12 in the world in this tournament. They are not to be taken lightly and a victory against them is not something to be scoffed at, no one else has managed it in four games, despite having better players than Costa Rica. I think a World Cup Semi Final, beating a highly impressive Chile side, and a 5-1 victory against the reigning champions, despite the fact his defense is that weak that Van Aanholt came close to getting in the squad, will be enough to impress. That's forgetting the 15 odd top level and European club trophies he's won in his career. Even if Costa Rica hadn't had an excellent tournament, I wouldn't be losing much sleep as a Manchester Untied fan because of one 0-0 draw in which they categorically deserved to win within the distance anyway. All in all, you've made an extremely stupid comment. I posted that in response to a line in commentary, which was along the lines of 'Manchester United fans will be excited watching that'. And based on the 120 minutes, I don't think they should be that excited. I didn't say they need to lose any sleep over it either, as I say, I think they should be reserving judgement until they see what he does in charge of Man United.
Guest MattP Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 Being lauded as a tactical genius for getting a 0-0 with a far inferior side, you couldn't make it up.
Corky Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 He's going to manage the most supported club in England after this tournament, with lots of the press desperate for Man United to return to the top. Every little positive thing he does will be lauded, we'll just have to get used to it.
Finnegan Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 The keeper does not have a fifty fifty chance of diving the right way, that's another stupid cliché. A taker can go high, go low, go right down the middle, can dink it, can smash it, can place it - all of which takes a different dive in a different direction based on a different decision. You think a keeper just flips a coin in his head for every penalty? And what, I'm wrong because I haven't taken a penalty in a world cup before? By this logic you're right because, what, you have? On the occasions I bother to respond to you I'm quickly reminded why I don't usually bother. At least Thracian used to think before he posted. (this deep, thoughtful, cultured reply was brought to you by Finnegan Esq, the sophisticated poster. You're welcome, MB.)
CosbehFox Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 Holland WERE lucky there because, having somehow made it to penalties, the whole thing then becomes a lottery. Krul then pulls off a couple of saves and literally saves the day. The reaction of the Dutch players, both during and after, was of a bunch who knew they had gotten out of jail. The game should have been over well before then. Their players including Robben were joking through extra time. The experiences pros like him and Snedjier kept signalling calm. To me, it seemed they were always confident they were going to win regardless of how.
Guest Col city fan Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 The keeper does not have a fifty fifty chance of diving the right way, that's another stupid cliché. A taker can go high, go low, go right down the middle, can dink it, can smash it, can place it - all of which takes a different dive in a different direction based on a different decision. You think a keeper just flips a coin in his head for every penalty? And what, I'm wrong because I haven't taken a penalty in a world cup before? By this logic you're right because, what, you have? On the occasions I bother to respond to you I'm quickly reminded why I don't usually bother. At least Thracian used to think before he posted. (this deep, thoughtful, cultured reply was brought to you by Finnegan Esq, the sophisticated poster. You're welcome, MB.) To be honest, you've again reminded me of why I dont usually bother. The words 'stupid', cliche'd and others often pervade your stuff. We can't really talk about anything without such retorts. For some reason, Mark doesn't appear to delete these though? Their players including Robben were joking through extra time. The experiences pros like him and Snedjier kept signalling calm. To me, it seemed they were always confident they were going to win regardless of how. So they decided to leave it to penalties! Risky...
ScouseFox Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 tbf they were probably confident of winning the pens, i thought when argentina scored in the 118th min or whatever the other day they didn't celebrate as wildly as i expected maybe cos they too were always sound with going to pens and winning there
foxfanazer Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 I'm sorry but no team can be confident of winning on penalties whether they are tge better side or not
CosbehFox Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 So they decided to leave it to penalties! Risky... Once again you seemingly take an opinion and edit it to how you wish to read it. They were confident. They felt they were going to win whatever. Over 120 mins, they thought they would score and it took a massive slice of luck to not score in the 90 mins. They then hit the bar in extra time yet still looked confident. They didn't leave it. They always thought a goal would come and they weren't phased by penalties.
CosbehFox Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 I'm sorry but no team can be confident of winning on penalties whether they are tge better side or not You haven't seen the training to make that opinion. Netherlands had five regular penalty takers who take them for their club side. The whole penalties is a lottery is rubbish at this level where it's the best of the best. You have the world best players with a chance to bag from 12 yards. They play in enough big games to control pressure.
purpleronnie Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 I'm sorry but no team can be confident of winning on penalties whether they are tge better side or not Apart from the germans of course.
foxfanazer Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 You haven't seen the training to make that opinion. Netherlands had five regular penalty takers who take them for their club side. The whole penalties is a lottery is rubbish at this level where it's the best of the best. You have the world best players with a chance to bag from 12 yards. They play in enough big games to control pressure.So confident they couldn't score in 120 mins. Ok it's not a lottery but to say they were confident they'd win on penalties is inaccurate imo
Guest Col city fan Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 Once again you seemingly take an opinion and edit it to how you wish to read it. They were confident. They felt they were going to win whatever. Over 120 mins, they thought they would score and it took a massive slice of luck to not score in the 90 mins. They then hit the bar in extra time yet still looked confident. They didn't leave it. They always thought a goal would come and they weren't phased by penalties. For fooks sake! This is an internet forum. I'm not talking to you am I, I'm interpreting what you read.. For any side to be as confident as to leave it, leave it, leave it (because that's kinda what the Dutch did).. having made sod all chances in extra time, because they were confident of winning on penalties IS risky. Remember the Costa Rica penalty shout? Which was a good shout.. that could have finished the game. To be alleging (how I'm reading it) that the Dutch were so confident that they would ultimately win (in this case on penalties) is not wise. It's not clever to do that is it. What would make more sense would have been to have taken one of the few chances they made in open play. Am I missing something here? Cos I cant for the life of me see your logic.
CosbehFox Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 So confident they couldn't score in 120 mins. Ok it's not a lottery but to say they were confident they'd win on penalties is inaccurate imo They hit the post, had one saved off the line, hit the bar twice! They got to penalties and looked composed. Maybe I haven't illustrated it well but they were confident they would win in 90 during the second half. They got to extra time and looked confident they would get a goal then. Then looked confident during peno's.
Guest Col city fan Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 You haven't seen the training to make that opinion. Netherlands had five regular penalty takers who take them for their club side. The whole penalties is a lottery is rubbish at this level where it's the best of the best. You have the world best players with a chance to bag from 12 yards. They play in enough big games to control pressure. As I've said before (conveniently overlooked), the Dutch have been in the position they were in last night, a number of times. They have lost in many quarters and semis with teams equally as good as last night's team. They are known as bottlers. Yet last night, they had 'the right players' to win on penalties. I think its all crap. They could and should have put the game to bed in 120 minutes but didn't. Then they go into penalties and finally triumph. That's how I saw it.
CosbehFox Posted 6 July 2014 Posted 6 July 2014 For fooks sake! This is an internet forum. I'm not talking to you am I, I'm interpreting what you read.. For any side to be as confident as to leave it, leave it, leave it (because that's kinda what the Dutch did).. having made sod all chances in extra time, They hit the bar!
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