Finnegan Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856 A Malaysian airliner reportedly with 295 people on board has crashed in Ukraine near the Russian border, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Malaysia Airlines said it had lost contact with Flight MH17 from Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukraine, it said in a tweet. An aviation source in Moscow told Reuters the plane had been found burning on the ground in east Ukraine. It had failed to enter Russian airspace, the source said. The UK Foreign Office said it was aware of the reports of the crash and was "urgently working to establish what has happened". It's really not Malaysia Airlines' year. Horrendous.
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2014 Author Posted 17 July 2014 16:50: The Associated Press says one of its journalists saw a similar launcher near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhe earlier on Thursday. 16:50: An advisor to the Ukrainian interior minister, Anton Gerashenko, says the plane was flying at an altitude of 10,000 metres (33,000 feet) when it was "hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher", in a post on his Facebook page, according to the Associated Press.
C-man Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Pro-Russians separatists claiming responsibility - fvcking hell.
Stuliasz Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 This has the potential to kick off something huge. Not that the problems over there aren't big enough already but it's difficult to see how others aren't going to be dragged into this mess now.
stripeyfox Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Terrible tragedy. Makes you wonder why civil aircraft are flying in this area?
Merging Cultures Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 This has the potential to kick off something huge. Not that the problems over there aren't big enough already but it's difficult to see how others aren't going to be dragged into this mess now. Agreed. Malaysia will now be seriously pissed and I am sure there were a number of Chinese on board as with the previous plane. This could get very messy.
leicsmac Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 This is going to singlehandedly kill the separatist cause. Whether or not he was giving them support before, Putin has to completely cut them loose now. Not even he can be seen to support people involved with this. Additionally, I can't see Malaysia Airlines lasting the year as a business either. One fatal incident can destroy an airline. Two in the space of a few months?
Webbo Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Just waiting for the first person to claim it was the CIA.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Fcuking hell. I can't even begin to imagine the conspiracy theories being written up now with the other one still missing. Terrible thing to happen, I didn't think this could actually happen to passenger airlines, I thought they would be far out of reach of something like this mid flight.
leicsmac Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Fcuking hell. I can't even begin to imagine the conspiracy theories being written up now with the other one still missing. Terrible thing to happen, I didn't think this could actually happen to passenger airlines, I thought they would be far out of reach of something like this mid flight. Military-grade surface-to-air missiles have the capability to do this, but they'd have to be the good ones. If it does turn out to be pro-Moscow separatists, goodness only knows why they'd do something like this. Perhaps shades of Korean Air Flight 007 all those years ago?
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2014 Author Posted 17 July 2014 17:26: Pro-Russia separatists in Donetsk have denied bringing down the aircraft, according to Interfax. "The plane was shot down by the Ukrainian side. We simply have no air defence systems of this kind," separatist spokesman Sergey Kavtaradze told the agency.
sphericalfox Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 This is going to singlehandedly kill the separatist cause. Whether or not he was giving them support before, Putin has to completely cut them loose now. Not even he can be seen to support people involved with this. Additionally, I can't see Malaysia Airlines lasting the year as a business either. One fatal incident can destroy an airline. Two in the space of a few months? I don't think the airline could be at fault for this one. it could be argued that they shouldn't be flying anywhere near this zone, but you would think that at 10,000 ft relatively safe from conflict. I'm sure other airlines might well have been flying across this zone. However, I suspect the Russians will conveniently try to blame the Ukrainians etc.
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2014 Author Posted 17 July 2014 Jonathan Beale Defence correspondent, BBC News The only other possibility is for an aircraft at that height to be downed by a fighter carrying air-to-air missiles. The US will have access to satellite imagery that should be able to identify ultra-violet plumes if a long-range surface-to-air missile was fired. Jonathan Beale Defence correspondent, BBC News A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000 metres (9.7 miles) would have required a long-range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar. That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range.
leicsmac Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 I don't think the airline could be at fault for this one. it could be argued that they shouldn't be flying anywhere near this zone, but you would think that at 10,000 ft relatively safe from conflict. I'm sure other airlines might well have been flying across this zone. However, I suspect the Russians will conveniently try to blame the Ukrainians etc. Even a hull loss caused by pilot error or mechanical failure where no one is at fault is enough to force an airline into liquidation. Losing planes is a massive, massive black hole on an airline balance sheet, whatever the cause - over here Asiana are still barely afloat after the incident at San Francisco a couple of years back. Losing two in this way... I think we are in for a whole lot of he-said-she-said from Russia and Ukraine though, as you say.
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2014 Author Posted 17 July 2014 17:32: The BBC's Oleg Boldyrev in Moscow says the rebels do not have out-dated equipment. What they have equals or maybe surpasses the Ukrainian government's capabilities. He says some reports say the rebels even have fighter planes reportedly flown from Crimea and that possibility should not be excluded.
Haydos Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Probably a good place for up to the minute news on it (If you ignore half the terrible comments) http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2aykgy/malaysian_passenger_plane_crashes_in_ukraine_near/
Maybes Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Alarming. Malaysian airlines are screwed even though this isn't their fault. Like an earlier poster states 2 disasters in six months is un-thinkable.
Fox92 Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Two big disasters for an airline in a year. Not sure what to make of it.
sphericalfox Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Alarming. Malaysian airlines are screwed even though this isn't their fault. Like an earlier poster states 2 disasters in six months is un-thinkable. I'd hope their government put something in place to prevent this from happening. This incident, should it be proven to be a missile strike, will hopefully get them to intervene.
leicsmac Posted 17 July 2014 Posted 17 July 2014 Thinking this has to be a dreadful error on the part of either the Ukranians or the separatists. There's no way either side would do something like this deliberately. Perhaps some idiot separatist tooled up with equipment he doesn't really know how to use?
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