Malaysia Airlines MH17 - Ukraine

[Leeds_Fox95]

No pal my name isn't luke, but you're right he really did have time for everyone. I didn't really know his family at all, except for the fact he had a older and younger brother, as i remember his younger brother starting at the high school whilst we were still there.

Probably the most vivid memory i have of him was a result of his diabetes and how he would always eat a finger of twix before and during some classes to maintain his sugar levels. That, as well as helping the class lock our french teacher in the cupboard, top top lad. Clearly only continued this by reading about the charity work he did, such a shame.

Ahh not who I thought you were then, you'd of been in the year above me at high school, was mates with a few lads in your year.

He played in year above me at Bosworth rugby club, f'ing good rugby player. Trained with them a few times and a lot of them stood out be he was very very good. Such a multi talented guy.

Edit: no I'm still pretty sure I know who you are! You're names Tom and your brothers called luke? No?

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[Grewks]

Ahh not who I thought you were then, you'd of been in the year above me at high school, was mates with a few lads in your year.

He played in year above me at Bosworth rugby club, f'ing good rugby player. Trained with them a few times and a lot of them stood out be he was very very good. Such a multi talented guy.

Edit: no I'm still pretty sure I know who you are! You're names Tom and your brothers called luke? No?

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There Rugby side for school was really good, but for the Market Bosworth team itself was just incredible. I can remember watching them a few times and they had an amazing undefeated record which they had for ages. They didn't have a weak link really and were a brilliant side to watch.

 

Yeah you got me! Can't think of who you are though....

[Leeds_Fox95]

There Rugby side for school was really good, but for the Market Bosworth team itself was just incredible. I can remember watching them a few times and they had an amazing undefeated record which they had for ages. They didn't have a weak link really and were a brilliant side to watch.

Yeah you got me! Can't think of who you are though....

It's Alex mate, that annoying little s*it that used to come to the city games with you dan storer and josh from time to time! It's like pissing friends re-united on here tonight!

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[Grewks]

It's Alex mate, that annoying little s*it that used to come to the city games with you dan storer and josh from time to time! It's like pissing friends re-united on here tonight!

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Have to admit, just guessed it was you after i posted....but it was the leeds_fox bit which confused me, guess you're not living in newbold anymore then.

[Leeds_Fox95]

Have to admit, just guessed it was you after i posted....but it was the leeds_fox bit which confused me, guess you're not living in newbold anymore then.

Yeah out of leicester and Newbold for the time being mate, hope you're keeping well.

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[Haydos]

There Rugby side for school was really good, but for the Market Bosworth team itself was just incredible. I can remember watching them a few times and they had an amazing undefeated record which they had for ages. They didn't have a weak link really and were a brilliant side to watch.

 

Yeah you got me! Can't think of who you are though....

 

How old would he be now? I've played against Market Bos a fair few times and they've always had s very strong side.

[C-man]

Is your name Luke by any chance? Spot on about Rich top lad, had time for everyone, even people like myself who he really didn't know him all that well.

His brothers name is Will and he seems to be coping about as well as he can be at a time like this, he's a lovely lad himself and like you and Rich me and Will shared a lot of the same classes at bozzy, I'm devastated for him and their older brother Tom, his mum and his dad.

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This has just confirmed what I feared yesterday when I read his surname Mayne.

I played Rugby with Tom at Oadby Wyggs (moved there from Bosworth) for a few years. There are a few others on here that did the same. Lost touch when I went to Uni but I knew he had two brothers. Absolutely gutted for his family.

RIP

[Haydos]

This has just confirmed what I feared yesterday when I read his surname Mayne.

I played Rugby with Tom at Oadby Wyggs (moved there from Bosworth) for a few years. There are a few others on here that did the same. Lost touch when I went to Uni but I knew he had two brothers. Absolutely gutted for his family.

RIP

 

How old are you lads? I played for Wyggs for 15 years

[C-man]

How old are you lads? I played for Wyggs for 15 years

We're all 24. I played u-9s to u-17s then binned Colts off to watch City instead

What about you mate?

[Haydos]

We're all 24. I played u-9s to u-17s then binned Colts off to watch City instead

What about you mate?

 

Just turned 25, my name's James, you can probably work it out from there with the username. Same team as Bob, Bee, Joe etc?

[bovril]

I wasn't trying to be a dick, sorry if it came across that way. It just bugs me.

 

TERRORISTS WIN!

 

You were right, of course. And my original post was a little hammy. Sometimes it can be quite depressing though. If you look at Syria, an incredibly beautiful country with an amazing history, it's almost completely destroyed now. I just naively hope that we'll get beyond all this shit at some point....

[broughtonblue]

Give untrained rebels weapons and this is what happens, rip

It appears that to use this weapons system, you have to be incredibly well trained, that is why Russia is being suspected of either training the terrorists or having their own operators there

[Guesty]

What does whether they did it or purpose or not have to do with it?

 

They have still committed a crime.

 

There will be very different ramifications internationally/politically if it's found this was done on purpose.

[MPH]

There will be very different ramifications internationally/politically if it's found this was done on purpose.

If the Russians had any brains they would be putting pressure on the rebels to issue a full and immediate apology. It's sheer lunacy for the Russians to try and put the blame on the Ukrainian regime- they'll have hardly any economy left in 5 years if they keep this up..

[BlueSi13]

If the Russians had any brains they would be putting pressure on the rebels to issue a full and immediate apology. It's sheer lunacy for the Russians to try and put the blame on the Ukrainian regime- they'll have hardly any economy left in 5 years if they keep this up..

 

Exactly and the sanctions will only get worse from now on if they fail to do so.  

 

I personally believe people overrate Russian power to an almost ridiculous level.  They will not be able to withstand such international pressure.  Fundamentally they remain a poor country with a poorly trained and poorly equipped army of conscripts. However if they try, the west will probably be left with no other option but to provide full military support to the Ukrainians in order to ensure the rebels (Russian) defeat (the Mujahideen crushing of Russia in Afghanistan would be an example of such a thing).

 

All eyes on Putin now...

[leicsmac]

Exactly and the sanctions will only get worse from now on if they fail to do so.

I personally believe people overrate Russian power to an almost ridiculous level. They will not be able to withstand such international pressure. Fundamentally they remain a poor country with a poorly trained and poorly equipped army of conscripts. However if they try, the west will probably be left with no other option but to provide full military support to the Ukrainians in order to ensure the rebels (Russian) defeat (the Mujahideen crushing of Russia in Afghanistan would be an example of such a thing).

All eyes on Putin now...

Their conventional power may not match up to NATO, but they have the numbers and more importantly they have the ultimate deterrent to use as a negotiation aid if necessary.

I think any direct killing of "Russian" citizens (even though it's not recognised by the international community) by NATO military support would start a chain of events that could end very badly.

No one wants to escalate this, so both sides blaming each other without it being proven who was responsible suits both sides down to the ground...lack of concrete evidence means no escalation. I think that's realpolitik.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Saw a video of it coming down, didn't look like it had had a rocket hit it to me. One of them 'here mate have a look at this', Cheers for that, just what I wanted to see.

[BlueSi13]

Their conventional power may not match up to NATO, but they have the numbers and more importantly they have the ultimate deterrent to use as a negotiation aid if necessary.

I think any direct killing of "Russian" citizens (even though it's not recognised by the international community) by NATO military support would start a chain of events that could end very badly.

No one wants to escalate this, so both sides blaming each other without it being proven who was responsible suits both sides down to the ground...lack of concrete evidence means no escalation. I think that's realpolitik.

 

But do they have the numbers?, their population is dwarfed by a combination of just the USA, UK and France, let alone other Nato nations and allies.  Plus all three of those also bear nuclear weapons.  Russia does not win a world war on her own.

 

I initially agreed with you that escalation is not acceptable.  However Russia's reaction to this tragedy in the face of damming evidence has been disgusting.  Instead of accepting that it was a missile fired from the rebels that they have hugely backed economically and militarily and offering an unreserved apology, Russia has instead closed shop, crossed its arms, buried it's head in the sand and blamed everything on Ukraine (meanwhile making damn sure the crash site is swept clean of any evidence).  

 

Russian agression in this part of the world (Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova etc) must now be stopped.  The biggest threat to world peace now is doing nothing.

[leicsmac]

But do they have the numbers?, their population is dwarfed by a combination of just the USA, UK and France, let alone other Nato nations and allies. Plus all three of those also bear nuclear weapons. Russia does not win a world war on her own.

I initially agreed with you that escalation is not acceptable. However Russia's reaction to this tragedy in the face of damming evidence has been disgusting. Instead of accepting that it was a missile fired from the rebels that they have hugely backed economically and militarily and offering an unreserved apology, Russia has instead closed shop, crossed its arms, buried it's head in the sand and blamed everything on Ukraine (meanwhile making damn sure the crash site is swept clean of any evidence).

Russian agression in this part of the world (Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova etc) must now be stopped. The biggest threat to world peace now is doing nothing.

Nope, they can't win a world war on their own, but they can make sure everyone else loses too, and that's all it takes.

I totally agree with you regarding Russia's response and attitude, but there's really little that can be done without resulting in really dangerous escalation. We can sanctions, threaten, but anything further would have potential to get very nasty. And I think no one wants that hence all the denials and covering up of the truth. It's better for everyone if it's never known who really pushed that button. It's disgusting, but that's classic diplomacy for you.

[Merging Cultures]

Nope, they can't win a world war on their own, but they can make sure everyone else loses too, and that's all it takes.

I totally agree with you regarding Russia's response and attitude, but there's really little that can be done without resulting in really dangerous escalation. We can sanctions, threaten, but anything further would have potential to get very nasty. And I think no one wants that hence all the denials and covering up of the truth. It's better for everyone if it's never known who really pushed that button. It's disgusting, but that's classic diplomacy for you.

 

And Putin said before the tragedy that he was going to retaliate for the previous sanctions. He's blamed Ukraine, and so if the world instigates tighter sanctions, it could lead to retaliation. If he doesn't that would be tacit admission that they were responsible, and so he'd create a fuss that they are suffering sanctions unfairly.

 

So, do we all brush it under the carpet?

 

It was a terrible 'accident' that it was a civilian plane. It certainly wasn't an act of aggression towards the world, but it certainly showed Russia's disregard for world politics that they are continuing this invasion of Ukraine.

[BlueSi13]

Nope, they can't win a world war on their own, but they can make sure everyone else loses too, and that's all it takes.

I totally agree with you regarding Russia's response and attitude, but there's really little that can be done without resulting in really dangerous escalation. We can sanctions, threaten, but anything further would have potential to get very nasty. And I think no one wants that hence all the denials and covering up of the truth. It's better for everyone if it's never known who really pushed that button. It's disgusting, but that's classic diplomacy for you.

 

So if we don't do anything officially, we will then have to do something unofficially.  Now I'm not saying we should retaliate by bringing down a Russian civilian aircraft, however Russia simply CANNOT continue down this path whilst believing that it's own citizens are completely cocooned and protected from the pain and suffering it's government is inflicting on others. It's the only way to ensure that they think twice in future.

[Simmo86]

Saw a video of it coming down, didn't look like it had had a rocket hit it to me. One of them 'here mate have a look at this', Cheers for that, just what I wanted to see.

If its the one going round Facebook then it isnt the right plane.

That is an American Transport plane that crashed in Afghan.

[Merging Cultures]

So if we don't do anything officially, we will then have to do something unofficially.  Now I'm not saying we should retaliate by bringing down a Russian civilian aircraft, however Russia simply CANNOT continue down this path whilst believing that it's own citizens are completely cocooned and protected from the pain and suffering it's government is inflicting on others. It's the only way to ensure that they think twice in future.

 

Except the population would hate the west even more and it would create a new breed of terrorist.

[BlueSi13]

Except the population would hate the west even more and it would create a new breed of terrorist.

 

Unless the west denies all responsibility like the Russians do whenever something like this happens.  Lets be honest, with their propaganda machine they aren't going to like us or hate us anymore than they already do.  

 

Nato simply cannot continue brushing this under the carpet, especially not now a large number of it's citizens have been murdered and their bodies disgraced.

[IOWFOX]

Love how brainwashed everyone seems to be by western media into blaming russia for all of this.

Is it really that hard to believe that Ukrainian people are unhappy with a government that came into power by overthrowing the last goverment. Partly due to the violence and persistence of right wing, almost neo-nazi like factions.

Of course the us, eu and nato are going to blame Russia. They stand to gain most from the new Ukrainian government staying in power and joining the eu.

This was a horrible incident and it's outrageous how it was instantly turned into an anti-russia propaganda story.

Will be interesting to see where this story goes and whether it'll get any coverage with the BBC and sky.

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/