Malaysia Airlines MH17 - Ukraine

[MPH]

I can't see WW3 happening anytime soon though, US can't afford another war and Europe have got itself into a position where everyone is completely reliant on Russian gas. More likely it will force the International agreement to see the East of Ukraine given a choice of whether they want to rejoin Russia or remain part of the orginal state.

 

I still think instead of pushing them, arming them and giving them intelligence the EU and its ilk should have just waited a year so the Ukrainians could have democratically removed the government rather than overthrow it which has caused this whole situation in the first place. (not saying Putin is innocent since, but he wouldn;t have be able to annex Crimea etc after that)

Either way Putin holds the aces, he has played Obama, Cameron etc for fools and outwitted them at every point since they wanted to go into Syria. (which ironically now looks good considering we would have been arming ISIS)

 

 

Shale gas/ oil is the future....

[MPH]

Didn't seem to have much trouble annexing the Crimea.

 

 

Very little point in keeping CRimea other than pride for the Ukranians - not really any monetary value to anyone other than Russia as they had a navy fleet stationed there...

[Sir Fynwy]

Very little point in keeping CRimea other than pride for the Ukranians - not really any monetary value to anyone other than Russia as they had a navy fleet stationed there...

Crimea has to buy all of its water from the Ukraine, this is why Russia wants Donetsk

[westernpark]

I feel devastated for my very good friend, who has lost his brother.He was a great role-model to my younger brother,who also has diabetes. R.I.P Richard

[fuchsntf]

I can't see WW3 happening anytime soon though, US can't afford another war and Europe have got itself into a position where everyone is completely reliant on Russian gas. More likely it will force the International agreement to see the East of Ukraine given a choice of whether they want to rejoin Russia or remain part of the orginal state.

 

I still think instead of pushing them, arming them and giving them intelligence the EU and its ilk should have just waited a year so the Ukrainians could have democratically removed the government rather than overthrow it which has caused this whole situation in the first place. (not saying Putin is innocent since, but he wouldn;t have be able to annex Crimea etc after that)Either way Putin holds the aces, he has played Obama, Cameron etc for fools and outwitted them at every point since they wanted to go into Syria. (which ironically now looks good considering we would have been arming ISIS)

All airlines should reroute traffic,giving no work to russian air control, refuse to land in Russia, refuse russian airlines airspace.Forget any other sanctions, the above would be enough.

Plus where are all the demonstrators gone...every city around the world, people should go on the street, to debase,

Putins underhanded tactics, relevant to the Crimea.His ignorance and incompetence supporting separatism in the Ukraine

Has now caused the death of European/Asian innocents who had no involvement in his luducrous manic politics.

[Merging Cultures]

This will sound a bit harsh and a bit weird from a relatively religious guy, but why are people posting Pray for MH17? It's a bit late to do that. I can understand praying for their families or praying for a peaceful resolution. Sorry if that sounds a bit insensitive and harsh??

[The Year Of The Fox]

Absolutely awful. The Bristol lad killed was a student at Loughborough Uni I think as well.

The countdown to WW3 I fear.

RIP

[richardsfoxes]

Give untrained rebels weapons and this is what happens, rip

[stripeyfox]

This will sound a bit harsh and a bit weird from a relatively religious guy, but why are people posting Pray for MH17? It's a bit late to do that. I can understand praying for their families or praying for a peaceful resolution. Sorry if that sounds a bit insensitive and harsh??

People just seem to attach themselves to these things without really giving them a thought. I don't believe in God. I used to, when I was younger but not for a long time. I have no desire to "pray" for anyone. I am sure the sentiment is well intended but people should really come up with a way of articulating their own thoughts - or keep quiet- rather than just recycling a hash tag.

My heart breaks for the passengers, particularly the babies and children, not just for the sudden, horrific, violent and terrifying end they met but for the fact that most of them are still lying alone in some foreign war zone.

We all need closure when a loved one dies and the families are a long way from that now.

[BlueSi13]

BRIC was formed about 4-5 years ago wasn't it?

 

edit: I didn't even realise it was 'BRICS' now, no idea South Africa had even been invited into it, either way I think it's a bit far fetched to be involved here, to be fair I'd probbaly be backed Russia and China if the Bilderberg group and their puppets decided to take them on.

Hi Matt,

 

For reference,

 

Nato population:  906,002,051

Russia:  143,800,000

 

Nato GDP (nominal):  $32.22 trillion

Russia: $2.09 trillion

 

IMO Russia could never defeat nor draw with Nato if WW3 was to erupt, she would be completely annihilated before her nukes could take us all out first.

[Merging Cultures]

People just seem to attach themselves to these things without really giving them a thought. I don't believe in God. I used to, when I was younger but not for a long time. I have no desire to "pray" for anyone. I am sure the sentiment is well intended but people should really come up with a way of articulating their own thoughts - or keep quiet- rather than just recycling a hash tag.

My heart breaks for the passengers, particularly the babies and children, not just for the sudden, horrific, violent and terrifying end they met but for the fact that most of them are still lying alone in some foreign war zone.

We all need closure when a loved one dies and the families are a long way from that now.

I agree. It's almost like #wotsthenext#

Very sad for the friends, families and love ones left behind. My prayers are with them and the politicians, military and war mongers who are currently negotiating.

[Buce]

There is an awful lot of nonsense being talked about WW3.

There will be no military response against Russia, just a lot of talk, maybe an extension of sanctions. This is not the first time a civilian airliner have been shot down by mistake - there have been several such incidents.

A quick search shows that there were 22 similar incidents since 1940, 9 of which occured in or around Russia/Soviet Union.

[Lionator]

There is an awful lot of nonsense being talked about WW3.

There will be no military response against Russia, just a lot of talk, maybe an extension of sanctions. This is not the first time a civilian airliner have been shot down by mistake - there have been several such incidents.

 

Indeed, calls of an impending WW3 are way over the top. A lot more likely outcome would be a Cold War stroke 2. All countries depend on each other too much economically these days for there to be a major war. 

[MooseBreath]

Can't see how it is going to escalate anything either. It almost certainly wasn't a deliberate act of provocation. Can't see anybody committing to serious conflict with the Russians over a mistake and certainly, as the countries predominantly involved, neither the Netherlands nor Malaysia are going to be gunning for any kind of revenge.

[Grewks]

To all those who have commented in this thread about Richard, he was a top lad. Spent 3 good years with him at High School, in the same tutor group and virtually every class from english to french. Must be horrible for his family, especially his younger brother (If i remember correctly is his name will?).

 

 

 

As for the event itself, I just don't understand why institutions such as Nato or the U.N. are so quiet on the topic. As much as everyone hates the American's, why is it only ever they who have to get the 'ball rolling' so to speak. According to their reports, they confirmed it was shot down before anybody else, they also confirmed it was shot down by radar satellite technology before anybody else.

 

The only way WW3 might occur is if other organisations DO NOT step in. Just leaving the U.S to deal with Russia really isn't smart. We should recognize the fact that Russia is a country within europe and the flight departed and crashed within europe. We need to deal with it ourselves rather than rely on the Americans.

[MooseBreath]

What do you want 'us' to do? Go to Ukraine and start killing people?

[Grewks]

What do you want 'us' to do? Go to Ukraine and start killing people?

 

 

Not yet. But it would be nice to show an interest would it not?

 

 

Take the speech from david cameron for instance. 'Blah blah blah sadness with regards to victims families blah blah blah'. No comment whatsoever about how he is going to stop this happening again, or anything similar in the future. The public want to hear about how these people are going to be punished for their crimes.

 

If i walked into town with a shotgun and took down 300 innocent people i would be arrested (admittedly more likely killed at the scene). So far nothing has been done.

[...............]

Ideally, I want us to stay the hell out of this. If they have shot it down thinking it was a cargo plane and not a civilian jet, it gives us a reason not go rushing into this mess. If they have shot it down in cold blood knowing it was a civilian aircraft, then it's a whole different ball game.

[MPH]

Does anyone know of anything coming out of the The Netherlands?

Not exactly the most gung Ho nation in the world, but then again it's been a while since anyone killed nearly 200 of their citizens..

[MooseBreath]

Not yet. But it would be nice to show an interest would it not?

Take the speech from david cameron for instance. 'Blah blah blah sadness with regards to victims families blah blah blah'. No comment whatsoever about how he is going to stop this happening again, or anything similar in the future. The public want to hear about how these people are going to be punished for their crimes.

If i walked into town with a shotgun and took down 300 innocent people i would be arrested (admittedly more likely killed at the scene). So far nothing has been done.

I suppose ideally we'd find the individuals responsible and bring them to justice. But you can't just saunter into another country and start imposing law. Unless the Russians hand them over, it's going to be very hard to find and extract those responsible without embroiling ourselves in a very serious conflict with the resultant loss of many more lives. It isn't worth it just to bring to justice a couple of individuals who made a tragic mistake.

[Guesty]

Ideally, I want us to stay the hell out of this. If they have shot it down thinking it was a cargo plane and not a civilian jet, it gives us a reason not go rushing into this mess. If they have shot it down in cold blood knowing it was a civilian aircraft, then it's a whole different ball game.

 

No chance they've shot it down on purpose knowing it was a civilian jet - it achieves absolutely nothing for them. Also, no chance the Russian's would have given them the weapons if they knew they were stupid enough to do this.  

 

Better that Cameron stays quiet on this; he really can't achieve anything on his own - and Putin would probably destroy Cameron in a war of words. Putin's not stupid, even though he won't admit it publicly he knows this makes him look bad - and if the West play it right they might be able to de-escalate this situation. If they attack Putin in the press he will just dig his heels in. 

[MPH]

Isn't Cardiff ' s sponsor 'visit Malaysia' or something like that?

Just choose your airline carefully should be written on the back, or something.

Feel sorry for the poor sods who run that airline....

[Leeds_Fox95]

To all those who have commented in this thread about Richard, he was a top lad. Spent 3 good years with him at High School, in the same tutor group and virtually every class from english to french. Must be horrible for his family, especially his younger brother (If i remember correctly is his name will?).

Is your name Luke by any chance? Spot on about Rich top lad, had time for everyone, even people like myself who he really didn't know him all that well.

His brothers name is Will and he seems to be coping about as well as he can be at a time like this, he's a lovely lad himself and like you and Rich me and Will shared a lot of the same classes at bozzy, I'm devastated for him and their older brother Tom, his mum and his dad.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grewks]

Is your name Luke by any chance? Spot on about Rich top lad, had time for everyone, even people like myself who he really didn't know him all that well.

His brothers name is Will and he seems to be coping about as well as he can be at a time like this, he's a lovely lad himself and like you and Rich me and Will shared a lot of the same classes at bozzy, I'm devastated for him and their older brother Tom, his mum and his dad.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

No pal my name isn't luke, but you're right he really did have time for everyone. I didn't really know his family at all, except for the fact he had a older and younger brother, as i remember his younger brother starting at the high school whilst we were still there.

 

Probably the most vivid memory i have of him was a result of his diabetes and how he would always eat a finger of twix before and during some classes to maintain his sugar levels. That, as well as helping the class lock our french teacher in the cupboard, top top lad. Clearly only continued this by reading about the charity work he did, such a shame.

[Grewks]

No chance they've shot it down on purpose knowing it was a civilian jet - it achieves absolutely nothing for them. Also, no chance the Russian's would have given them the weapons if they knew they were stupid enough to do this.  

 

Better that Cameron stays quiet on this; he really can't achieve anything on his own - and Putin would probably destroy Cameron in a war of words. Putin's not stupid, even though he won't admit it publicly he knows this makes him look bad - and if the West play it right they might be able to de-escalate this situation. If they attack Putin in the press he will just dig his heels in. 

 

What does whether they did it or purpose or not have to do with it?

 

They have still committed a crime.