Babylon Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 The reporting of this is fecking shocking, clearly they don't give a shit about families and just want to show a juicy story. I mean, do we really need to see the contents of someones suitcase skynews. Or know that body parts are scattered everywhere, or that all that's left are "charred spines", or that it that it smells of rotting corpses. What the hell does any of that stuff add exactly? It's macabre.
Darkon84 Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Just to play devils advocate a bit here. Do the people who are condemning Russia for providing the weapons, which has led to this terrible outcome, also feel the same way about the US who have supplied Israel with weapons, which has led to the death of plenty of civilians too?
Jon the Hat Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Just to play devils advocate a bit here. Do the people who are condemning Russia for providing the weapons, which has led to this terrible outcome, also feel the same way about the US who have supplied Israel with weapons, which has led to the death of plenty of civilians too? The situations are not directly comparable. Israel & Hamas are both culpable for the deaths of civilians in Gaza. I dont recall though the citizens of many other countries being killed with those weapons while in transit 10km overhead.
leicsmac Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Just to play devils advocate a bit here. Do the people who are condemning Russia for providing the weapons, which has led to this terrible outcome, also feel the same way about the US who have supplied Israel with weapons, which has led to the death of plenty of civilians too? Indeed, though as Jon above says you can't directly compare the situations. It is true however that both the US and Russia have tooled up smaller countries who have then gone on to do shitty things to people who were innocent.
Jon the Hat Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Indeed, though as Jon above says you can't directly compare the situations. It is true however that both the US and Russia have tooled up smaller countries who have then gone on to do shitty things to people who were innocent. Not to mention the UK. Probably plenty of others too.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 The reporting of this is fecking shocking, clearly they don't give a shit about families and just want to show a juicy story. I mean, do we really need to see the contents of someones suitcase skynews. Or know that body parts are scattered everywhere, or that all that's left are "charred spines", or that it that it smells of rotting corpses. What the hell does any of that stuff add exactly? It's macabre. I would guess it's to shock us, and make us feel angrier at the Russians. I could not be more angry than I am now (fuming with bitter hatred). Putin and his cronies, seem hell bent on causing trouble, and I pray that they get their "just deserts"
leicsmac Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 I would guess it's to shock us, and make us feel angrier at the Russians. I could not be more angry than I am now (fuming with bitter hatred). Putin and his cronies, seem hell bent on causing trouble, and I pray that they get their "just deserts" With respect, does the idea of nuclear Armageddon appeal to you? Because if they are looking to get their 'just desserts' (and I agree they're all slimy bastards), they're going to make sure everyone else does too.
sphericalfox Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 I would guess it's to shock us, and make us feel angrier at the Russians. I could not be more angry than I am now (fuming with bitter hatred). Putin and his cronies, seem hell bent on causing trouble, and I pray that they get their "just deserts"
Jon the Hat Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 The way to beat the Russians will be the way we did it last time. Economic pressure. The techniqeu will change a little, they are now dependent on the West for their economic prosperity, and we need to remind them of that.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Oh crap. I wish I could un-see the picture I just looked at. Feel sick I have no clue why I even did this but I looked at a photo on the Reddit site and I don't think I've ever been so horrified by something - a dead kid still strapped in a chair, basically - beyond heartbreaking. I only looked at it for a second but it imprinted itself on my brain and it's only 4 days later that the memory of it is fading a bit, and I've felt a bit f**ked up by it, so how someone actually connected to that kid would feel if they saw it - or even if they didn't - is beyond my imaginings. Terrible things are happening in Gaza, and you see that and you think that's awful, and as a parent your empathy level increases, but even then it seems - and I'm not deliberately being racist here, it seems very foreign and faraway, in a way that, however sad and tragic it all is, it somehow doesn't resonate - you don't get that kick in the guts, as if we've been de-sensitised and immune to the sight of olive skinned toddlers getting mangled. With MH17 though, it seems so much closer to home, just people with their kids getting on a plane, much like I did only a couple of months ago, and then that happening. I'll sound like a madman now, but when I picture that broken, lifeless fair-haired child I can see my own kid. Anyway I thought the father of that lad from Western Park summed it up the other day when he was quoted by the Mercury as saying something along the lines of because Putin meddles in the Ukraine because it suits him, his lad has been killed. If anything good comes out of all this, and I'm clutching at straws here, I know, maybe all this tragedy will bring home to him and other world leaders what playing out these power games actually means to people's lives and no, it's not worth it, it's never worth it
BoneDog Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Can't believe so many people are blindly accepting that Russia are to blame for this tragedy - based on nothing - though I can slightly understand as I've been watching BBC and Sky News. The propaganda is deep on this one. It's a pretext for major war in my opinion, and the only people who have gained from this are Washington, the Kiev nazis who only rule because of a CIA backed flash mob coup that forced the democratically elected govt to bugger off, and anyone else who is on their side. Ukraine had BUK missile systems in the area, although the so-called rebels have no aircraft. Ukraine diverted the plane so it flew over the war zone even though the 10 previous flights all flew slightly south over the Sea of Azov - staying away from the war zone. The plane was also bizarrely told to drop altitude to 33,000 feet. The plane was directed right into the danger zone and it wasn't the Russians who had the capability to do that. http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-malaysian-airline-mh17-likely-brought-down-by-the-ukrainian-military/5392144 http://www.globalresearch.ca/kiev-deployed-powerful-anti-air-systems-to-east-ukraine-ahead-of-the-malaysian-plane-crash/5392280 http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-crash-in-ukraine-world-sees-tragedy-us-sees-game-changer/5392142 http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh370-and-mh17-a-criminologist-questions-what-are-the-probabilities-is-it-a-mere-coincidence/5392265
THEBIGJOHNSTEADER; Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Flew from Birmingham airport around about the same time as the lad from Leicester. Possibly brushed shoulders going through security for all I know. Incomprehensible to think what was waiting around the corner from him. Mental.
MooseBreath Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Can't believe so many people are blindly accepting that Russia are to blame for this tragedy - based on nothing - though I can slightly understand as I've been watching BBC and Sky News. The propaganda is deep on this one. It's a pretext for major war in my opinion, and the only people who have gained from this are Washington, the Kiev nazis who only rule because of a CIA backed flash mob coup that forced the democratically elected govt to bugger off, and anyone else who is on their side. Ukraine had BUK missile systems in the area, although the so-called rebels have no aircraft. Ukraine diverted the plane so it flew over the war zone even though the 10 previous flights all flew slightly south over the Sea of Azov - staying away from the war zone. The plane was also bizarrely told to drop altitude to 33,000 feet. The plane was directed right into the danger zone and it wasn't the Russians who had the capability to do that. http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-malaysian-airline-mh17-likely-brought-down-by-the-ukrainian-military/5392144 http://www.globalresearch.ca/kiev-deployed-powerful-anti-air-systems-to-east-ukraine-ahead-of-the-malaysian-plane-crash/5392280 http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-crash-in-ukraine-world-sees-tragedy-us-sees-game-changer/5392142 http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh370-and-mh17-a-criminologist-questions-what-are-the-probabilities-is-it-a-mere-coincidence/5392265 First fact I checked - ten previously flights all flew further south. Result - false. Only one of the previous 12 flew further south, the rest flew the same path. 2nd fact - abnormal altitude. False again. All previous flights were at the same altitude at that point in the flight
BoneDog Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 First fact I checked - ten previously flights all flew further south. Result - false. Only one of the previous 12 flew further south, the rest flew the same path. 2nd fact - abnormal altitude. False again. All previous flights were at the same altitude at that point in the flight People are muddying the water with propaganda, but there are still too many unanswered questions regarding Ukraine's involvement. Russia had nothing to gain from this, but others did. Are you saying that you believe the Western media and Russia is to blame? When did Western media become trustworthy on war issues? When did people start to treat this Kiev mob as a legitimate government? I only started watching our news again recently and was surprised to see the Kiev mob being treated as legit, when they are anything but. They have been committing acts of terrorism from the get-go so this Malaysian flight attack is right up their street.
Dr The Singh Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 People are muddying the water with propaganda, but there are still too many unanswered questions regarding Ukraine's involvement. Russia had nothing to gain from this, but others did. Are you saying that you believe the Western media and Russia is to blame? When did Western media become trustworthy on war issues? When did people start to treat this Kiev mob as a legitimate government? I only started watching our news again recently and was surprised to see the Kiev mob being treated as legit, when they are anything but. They have been committing acts of terrorism from the get-go so this Malaysian flight attack is right up their street. Honestly, I have no idea who is responsible and trust no-one. But it would help if we posted facts that were actual facts
Merging Cultures Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 People are muddying the water with propaganda, but there are still too many unanswered questions regarding Ukraine's involvement. Russia had nothing to gain from this, but others did. Are you saying that you believe the Western media and Russia is to blame? When did Western media become trustworthy on war issues? When did people start to treat this Kiev mob as a legitimate government? I only started watching our news again recently and was surprised to see the Kiev mob being treated as legit, when they are anything but. They have been committing acts of terrorism from the get-go so this Malaysian flight attack is right up their street. He fact checks your post and you come back with 'people are muddying the water'?! Weak.
Babylon Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 People are muddying the water with propaganda, but there are still too many unanswered questions regarding Ukraine's involvement. Russia had nothing to gain from this, but others did. Are you saying that you believe the Western media and Russia is to blame? When did Western media become trustworthy on war issues? When did people start to treat this Kiev mob as a legitimate government? I only started watching our news again recently and was surprised to see the Kiev mob being treated as legit, when they are anything but. They have been committing acts of terrorism from the get-go so this Malaysian flight attack is right up their street.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 I think questions have to be asked of the flight planners at Malaysia Airlines. Why did the eastern carriers continue flying over the region when many western carriers had stopped and elected to fly to the south as Malaysia now do? The aircraft was at 33000ft when airspace below 32000ft was closed airspace. Had the cabin depressurized and a quick descent to 10000ft was needed, what would they have done? Especially as this would look like threatening military behaviour on a radar. I guess it's slightly trivial when you consider what has happened anyway and the world politics of it all but I imagine Malaysia Airlines lawyers will be worried now and the future of the airline doesn't look certain. This could have been a tragedy even closer to home than it already is with the Air India into BHX only about 25km away. I just hope the families will be able to get the bodies home soon so they can properly go through the grieving process and the media spares them all the gory details that are plastered around at the moment. Also if anyone wants to know a bit more about mistaken identities ad shooting down of aircraft then watch the air crash investigation episode about the Americans shooting down an Iranian flight. It explains a few things about differences with military and civillian aircraft http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18uf29_mayday-s03e06-mistaken-identity_shortfilms
stripeyfox Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 I have no clue why I even did this but I looked at a photo on the Reddit site and I don't think I've ever been so horrified by something - a dead kid still strapped in a chair, basically - beyond heartbreaking. I only looked at it for a second but it imprinted itself on my brain and it's only 4 days later that the memory of it is fading a bit, and I've felt a bit f**ked up by it, so how someone actually connected to that kid would feel if they saw it - or even if they didn't - is beyond my imaginings. Terrible things are happening in Gaza, and you see that and you think that's awful, and as a parent your empathy level increases, but even then it seems - and I'm not deliberately being racist here, it seems very foreign and faraway, in a way that, however sad and tragic it all is, it somehow doesn't resonate - you don't get that kick in the guts, as if we've been de-sensitised and immune to the sight of olive skinned toddlers getting mangled. With MH17 though, it seems so much closer to home, just people with their kids getting on a plane, much like I did only a couple of months ago, and then that happening. I'll sound like a madman now, but when I picture that broken, lifeless fair-haired child I can see my own kid. Anyway I thought the father of that lad from Western Park summed it up the other day when he was quoted by the Mercury as saying something along the lines of because Putin meddles in the Ukraine because it suits him, his lad has been killed. If anything good comes out of all this, and I'm clutching at straws here, I know, maybe all this tragedy will bring home to him and other world leaders what playing out these power games actually means to people's lives and no, it's not worth it, it's never worth it That image kept me awake the other night. They're was another image of a toddler lying on the ground. Nothing graphic about it actually, but there context makes it heartbreaking. As I said earlier, I'm trying to steer clear of the politics and crackpot conspiracy theories. Someone ****ed up and shot down a civilian aircraft. I just can't take the indignity the victims have been subjected to. Robbed and left to rot in the sun. It's just too sad.
broughtonblue Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 I have no clue why I even did this but I looked at a photo on the Reddit site and I don't think I've ever been so horrified by something - a dead kid still strapped in a chair, basically - beyond heartbreaking. I only looked at it for a second but it imprinted itself on my brain and it's only 4 days later that the memory of it is fading a bit, and I've felt a bit f**ked up by it, so how someone actually connected to that kid would feel if they saw it - or even if they didn't - is beyond my imaginings. Terrible things are happening in Gaza, and you see that and you think that's awful, and as a parent your empathy level increases, but even then it seems - and I'm not deliberately being racist here, it seems very foreign and faraway, in a way that, however sad and tragic it all is, it somehow doesn't resonate - you don't get that kick in the guts, as if we've been de-sensitised and immune to the sight of olive skinned toddlers getting mangled. With MH17 though, it seems so much closer to home, just people with their kids getting on a plane, much like I did only a couple of months ago, and then that happening. I'll sound like a madman now, but when I picture that broken, lifeless fair-haired child I can see my own kid. Anyway I thought the father of that lad from Western Park summed it up the other day when he was quoted by the Mercury as saying something along the lines of because Putin meddles in the Ukraine because it suits him, his lad has been killed. If anything good comes out of all this, and I'm clutching at straws here, I know, maybe all this tragedy will bring home to him and other world leaders what playing out these power games actually means to people's lives and no, it's not worth it, it's never worth it I was wondering what these images were on reddit that had opened up such a debate, and was tempted to look myself, but with your description I think you saved me from seeing something that would have lasted. For this I thank you!
FoxesAreBlue Posted 21 July 2014 Posted 21 July 2014 Yes I saw the image that Sebastian describes on Friday - it's awful and it stuck with me too. It's very, very numbing.
Guest MattP Posted 23 July 2014 Posted 23 July 2014 Quite a good video here to show just how easy it is for our press to manipulate things, the 'rebel' who was pictured 'holding the teddy bear as a trophy' actually wasn't at all. He was showing the cameras and telling them that the people responsible for this need to be caught. http://rt.com/news/174332-ukraine-plane-photo-perverted/
ADK Posted 23 July 2014 Posted 23 July 2014 I don't agree with what Putin is doing arming the rebels but I don't think it is right that the West should try to make political capital from this tragedy.
Grandad. Posted 23 July 2014 Posted 23 July 2014 Read a tweet on Twitter that the flight returning bodies to Holland, has crash landed in Eindhoven. @AP
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