Smuts' NFL Thread

[bovril]

1 minute ago, ajthefox said:

Don't know how firmly your tongue is in your cheek here but think your doing the linemen on both sides a disservice here in terms of how much they put into a game.

 

Kicking is high pressure and obviously has a big impact on the game, but your line is involved on every play and if either one is rubbish you will really, really struggle to get anywhere. Good kicker or not.

My tongue is not in my cheek. I don't doubt that the lineman put everything physically and emotionally into a game, and I accept they are maybe the most important position after the QB, but there's no real skill involved. 

[goose2010]

53 minutes ago, bovril said:

Kickers were great. 3 50+ yarders including a record. Some good punts too. I know it's not quite as hard as rugby kicking but still think they deserve more credit considering they are (I think?) the highest scorers on the team and are obviously more skilled than some huge guy that's good at falling on people. 

Niners kicker cost them the game to be fair.... cant afford to miss a PAT in a superbowl. 

[bovril]

12 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

Niners kicker cost them the game to be fair.... cant afford to miss a PAT in a superbowl. 

True, forgot about that in my tiredness this morning. Still, game could've panned out differently from there. 

[goose2010]

9 minutes ago, bovril said:

True, forgot about that in my tiredness this morning. Still, game could've panned out differently from there. 

yeah absolutely, the game for me turned on the punt return fumble by the Niners. up until then the chiefs were all over the place. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

32 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

Niners kicker cost them the game to be fair.... cant afford to miss a PAT in a superbowl. 

Tbf he didn't miss it as such. It was blocked. Maybe he should have set it on a higher trajectory but it's an important distinction nonetheless - like when a keeper saves a penalty rather than the taker simply missing the target.

 

As much as the Purdy fanboys won't want to hear it, and he certainly wasn't terrible, but the difference was the QBs. Mahomes simply outplayed Purdy, who had several opportunities to put the Chiefs away (particularly early in the 3rd quarter) but couldn't get it done. 

[BertFill]

44 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

Niners kicker cost them the game to be fair.... cant afford to miss a PAT in a superbowl. 

Isn't it as much the fault of the people whose job it is to stop the other team getting close enough to block the kick?

[ajthefox]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

My tongue is not in my cheek. I don't doubt that the lineman put everything physically and emotionally into a game, and I accept they are maybe the most important position after the QB, but there's no real skill involved. 

 They aren't defined as skill positions but I'm curious what you mean by skill and I still think you are doing them a bit of a disservice.

 

Blocking well, pass or run, is as much technique as it is being big and strong. As is being D-line. 

 

Not sure kicking a ball straight is much more of skill given how repetitive it is. I'm downplaying it a little as it is obviously a precision thing but there are fewer variables to kicking than there are being on the line. 

[bovril]

13 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

 They aren't defined as skill positions but I'm curious what you mean by skill and I still think you are doing them a bit of a disservice.

 

Blocking well, pass or run, is as much technique as it is being big and strong. As is being D-line. 

 

Not sure kicking a ball straight is much more of skill given how repetitive it is. I'm downplaying it a little as it is obviously a precision thing but there are fewer variables to kicking than there are being on the line. 

In football, any code of football, I would say skill entails doing something with the ball. I believe kicking a field goal takes greater skill than blocking, though that's totally subjective and we're getting into semantics. But as you said, there are "skill positions" in gridiron football which are not the lineman. 

 

Agree to be honest that NFL kicking isn't that hard either considering it's always from the same place and usually not that far out. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

3 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

 They aren't defined as skill positions but I'm curious what you mean by skill and I still think you are doing them a bit of a disservice.

 

Blocking well, pass or run, is as much technique as it is being big and strong. As is being D-line. 

 

Not sure kicking a ball straight is much more of skill given how repetitive it is. I'm downplaying it a little as it is obviously a precision thing but there are fewer variables to kicking than there are being on the line. 

Agree. Being a lineman (offense and defense) requires an incredible amount of skill, technique and intelligence. If it didn't then we'd all be eating our way to 25 stone to earn NFL minimum wage. It's all about leverage, footwork and hand position and takes years of dedication to master. You'll often see the centre making line calls before the snap, making his fellow linemen aware of who might be blitzing, and possible twists and stunts by the defense. It's not just 'fat blokes falling on each other'.

[The Bear]

50 minutes ago, bovril said:

 

Agree to be honest that NFL kicking isn't that hard either considering it's always from the same place and usually not that far out. 

The guy catching/placing has to do his job properly as well to make it consistent for the kicker. 

 

Moody just screwed his kick up. Hit almost on his ankle which made it go low and to the left. 100% his fault. It probably would have missed or been near to missing if they hadn't blocked it. 

[bovril]

I know the Americans like to intellectualise their sport but I am sorry, you don't need an incredible amount of intelligence to play defensive tackle. 

[BertFill]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

I know the Americans like to intellectualise their sport but I am sorry, you don't need an incredible amount of intelligence to play defensive tackle. 

Well you don't really need much intelligence to play most sport!

Hence the joke about the 1980s footballer with 2 CSEs being given the dressing room nickname 'Brains,' and the fact that brainy people and sporty people don't always overlap.

[bovril]

12 minutes ago, BertFill said:

Well you don't really need much intelligence to play most sport!

Hence the joke about the 1980s footballer with 2 CSEs being given the dressing room nickname 'Brains,' and the fact that brainy people and sporty people don't always overlap.

Yes but with association football when Marcin Wasilewski crunches into some poor winger just out of the youth team we don't sit around stroking our chins and saying what great "football IQ" he's got 

[ajthefox]

From the Nikelodeon showing... 

[Lambert09]

I find it very american that the best players in a sport is always the greatest of all time (or will be). They just have to be part of that. 

 

You just tend to see it constantly about whoever is currently top of the game, whether that’s basketball, football or whatever. People already claiming Mahomes is better than Brady. The boys still got a shed load to achieve before that should even be a conversation 

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I find it very american that the best players in a sport is always the greatest of all time (or will be). They just have to be part of that. 

 

You just tend to see it constantly about whoever is currently top of the game, whether that’s basketball, football or whatever. People already claiming Mahomes is better than Brady. The boys still got a shed load to achieve before that should even be a conversation 

It's an Anglo-Saxon country at the end of the day so they need to constantly rank things in a quite autistic way. 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

I find it very american that the best players in a sport is always the greatest of all time (or will be). They just have to be part of that. 

 

You just tend to see it constantly about whoever is currently top of the game, whether that’s basketball, football or whatever. People already claiming Mahomes is better than Brady. The boys still got a shed load to achieve before that should even be a conversation 

 

2 hours ago, bovril said:

It's an Anglo-Saxon country at the end of the day so they need to constantly rank things in a quite autistic way. 

Whereas over here it's the other way round - the best players from the past (like Pele, Maradona, Banks et al) rather than the present are given the added value, despite the game having evolved massively even in the last decade or two. Until that is, they become such rareified exceptions (like C.Ronaldo and Messi) that including them is unavoidable.

 

Edit: or perhaps it's just every generation considers the great players from their own formative years to be the best ever.

Edited 12 February by leicsmac

[SpacedX]

7 hours ago, bovril said:

I know it's not quite as hard as rugby kicking but still think they deserve more credit considering they are (I think?) the highest scorers on the team and are obviously more skilled than some huge guy that's good at falling on people. 

It's not simply down to scoring. There are understated positions and less ostensibly glamourous positions in an American Football team that demand insane levels of composure, coordination and skill. Left Tackle is probably the most challenging position to play, whilst cornerbacks are the decathletes of NFL. Possibly the greatest ever to play in the position was the great Darrell Green who played for the Redskins for two decades. 

[bovril]

2 hours ago, SpacedX said:

It's not simply down to scoring. There are understated positions and less ostensibly glamourous positions in an American Football team that demand insane levels of composure, coordination and skill. Left Tackle is probably the most challenging position to play, whilst cornerbacks are the decathletes of NFL. Possibly the greatest ever to play in the position was the great Darrell Green who played for the Redskins for two decades. 

I hear a lot about how much skill and intelligence is needed to play up front in an American football team but it seems quite unlikely to me. I find it an interesting sport because of how highly planned and carefully executed it is but for me that diminishes the role of the individual. Having said that I have never played it beyond a few games for a crap Italian team so would interested to hear from people who've played it at a relatively high level. No doubt you have to have incredible strength and be very well prepared.

Edited 12 February by bovril

[Lillehamring]

18 hours ago, Lako42 said:

**** sake 

 

Chiefs can **** off

 

And Moody

Now, now...

 

He hit two of the three longest FGs in superbowl history.

You have to expect the OL to protect him on a PAT.

[Lillehamring]

18 hours ago, KingsX said:

 Bad enough to burn a high pick on a kicker. Unforgivable to do it on a kicker from Michigan … literally cost them a Super Bowl.

Nonsense - i could list you a dozen things that were as costly as the missed PAT, even if he's made it, it would still have been a one score game, slightly harder, but then had they got it it wouldn't have even gone to OT.

[Lillehamring]

11 hours ago, goose2010 said:

yeah absolutely, the game for me turned on the punt return fumble by the Niners. up until then the chiefs were all over the place. 

Not technically a fumble, but a live ball, but yeah, totally shifted the momentum - far more than the missed PAT.

[Lillehamring]

11 hours ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Tbf he didn't miss it as such. It was blocked. Maybe he should have set it on a higher trajectory but it's an important distinction nonetheless - like when a keeper saves a penalty rather than the taker simply missing the target.

 

As much as the Purdy fanboys won't want to hear it, and he certainly wasn't terrible, but the difference was the QBs. Mahomes simply outplayed Purdy, who had several opportunities to put the Chiefs away (particularly early in the 3rd quarter) but couldn't get it done. 

I woudn't go that far - neither was exactly MVP quality - and had greenlaw been on the field things would have been very different - kelce had 1 catch for 1 yard before his departure.

 

The difference was not the QB level, this was a game won in the trenches and in the playcalling.

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

I find it very american that the best players in a sport is always the greatest of all time (or will be). They just have to be part of that. 

 

You just tend to see it constantly about whoever is currently top of the game, whether that’s basketball, football or whatever. People already claiming Mahomes is better than Brady. The boys still got a shed load to achieve before that should even be a conversation 

I believe the term you are looking for is recency bias.

[Lako42]

9 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

 

 

The difference was not the QB level, this was a game won in the trenches and in the playcalling.

Agreed on this.

 

Also thought the SF defence let off too much in OT and were not aggressive enough, too much room between the lines as the chiefs moved up.