Grewks Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Will it not prove all along that it is the players poor performances which have led to our current situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim5000 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 If they remove him and the players suddenly improve and we start winning, it show that he was the cause of the players bad performance through tactics, motivation etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Who picks and coaches the players, who tells them the tactics? If it's all down to the players then it doesn't matter who the manager is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_star Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 If we get rid of Pearson we may improve Or we may start getting thrashed 4, 5 or 6 every week, rather than not being in too much danger apart from the players making 1 or 2 individual errors a game which leads to a goal, meaning we have to score 3 to have a chance... Which we're not good enough to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisNedry Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 With Pearson as manager, we've had times this season and last (and seasons before) where we've been brilliant for a run of matches, and awful for a run of matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagofox Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 If we get rid of Pearson and suddenly improve - who the **** cares what it would (or would not) prove .... because we would have improved! Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unabomber Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Pearson is a god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grewks Posted 21 December 2014 Author Share Posted 21 December 2014 If they remove him and the players suddenly improve and we start winning, it show that he was the cause of the players bad performance through tactics, motivation etc. Unless the new manager turns king into a striker, ulloa into a center half and mahrez into a full back....how exactly will we be tactically any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Will it not prove all along that it is the players poor performances which have led to our current situation? Surely every single manager has been judged on his players' standard of performance? I can't believe what an obvious thing to say this is. The good manager elicits quality performances from his players. How could this have been avoided, other than by buying better players in the summer? By consistently selecting your best players (even yesterday, our top scorer and only player with experience as a lone forward was playing second fiddle to a guy with a sixth of his goals, in a run of poor form, and who has never enjoyed much success as a lone forward); by acting quickly to drop players who are clearly letting you down (De Laet and Konchesky should have been dropped months ago, and we DO have valid alternatives), by settling the line-up and tactics so that the players know what they're doing, and by properly motivating them so that their work-rate is better than the oppositions which, more often than not, it isn't. He has made some appalling, amateurish mistakes. Our performances, largely as a consequence, have not been good enough. And he, like every other manager, will be judged on those performances. If we fire him and those performances improve, it will purely indicate that the new guy is doing a better job than Pearson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Who picks and coaches the players, who tells them the tactics? If it's all down to the players then it doesn't matter who the manager is. I get your point but Nige isn't telling our players to make blind pass backs and to let players shoot freely from the edge of the box. We're being let down by the players mistakes more than Nigel's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collibosher70 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 why not switch to 3-5-2...i still believe we have a squad that can win games but we must press more..get the ball into the box and cause other teams to panic..as southampton did v everton yesterday...pearson though fails to change things quick enough when we need it and this i believe is his major problem in the fact that he doesnt have a back up plan..sometimes you have to gamble to make things work..goal down 10 mins left stick a centre half up there to mix things up etc...it works and it has worked in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 I get your point but Nige isn't telling our players to make blind pass backs and to let players shoot freely from the edge of the box. We're being let down by the players mistakes more than Nigel's. The blind pass back? The one from Konchesky, who every fan under the sun was saying shouldn't get a game this season? Who everyone wanted dropped in favour of Schlupp after six games? The one who has already been at fault for a good portion of our goals this season? Who was it who offered him a new deal, didn't buy a replacement and kept him in the side at the expense of an alternative who (a) is currently playing out of position, (b) was our left back for much of our league-sealing run last season and (c ) was man-of-the-match this season in the only game he played at left back? And don't get me started on playing De Laet for 15 games, or publicly berating our most creative player, or dropping our top scorer just as he's rediscovering his form and going on not to score a goal for two matches, or the old 'practise crossing all week, then finish the next game with two target men and no wingers whatsoever'. His errors this season have been abysmal ones. And that's coming from someone who still thinks he should stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickov22 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 He's going nowhere. It's too late now- too close to Jan. They're gonna give him cash in Jan and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickov22 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 He's going nowhere. It's too late now- too close to Jan. They're gonna give him cash in Jan and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 The blind pass back? The one from Konchesky, who every fan under the sun was saying shouldn't get a game this season? Who everyone wanted dropped in favour of Schlupp after six games? The one who has already been at fault for a good portion of our goals this season? Who was it who offered him a new deal, didn't buy a replacement and kept him in the side at the expense of an alternative who (a) is currently playing out of position, (b) was our left back for much of our league-sealing run last season and (c ) was man-of-the-match this season in the only game he played at left back? And don't get me started on playing De Laet for 15 games, or publicly berating our most creative player, or dropping our top scorer just as he's rediscovering his form and going on not to score a goal for two matches, or the old 'practise crossing all week, then finish the next game with two target men and no wingers whatsoever'. His errors this season have been abysmal ones. And that's coming from someone who still thinks he should stay. Konchesky has easily been the standout performer of our defence this season. That says a lot about it, but still. To say that everyone wanted him to be shipped out is obviously hyperbole. I think that the Robinson sacking has shown that this might not be the side Nige wanted. I can't get my head around how someone could forget just how good we were about 3 months ago. True the results have been awful since and the majority of performances have been dog shit but ffs, what a load of bollocks that post is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Considering it's a hypothetical situation it's impossible to say what made us improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie84 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 I get your point but Nige isn't telling our players to make blind pass backs and to let players shoot freely from the edge of the box. We're being let down by the players mistakes more than Nigel's. I get your point but too many errors due to the defence and defending set pieces leading to goals that should of been picked up and worked on by the training staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 22 December 2014 Share Posted 22 December 2014 If someone came in and picked a different team to Pearson, played a different formation and had better results I would first be grateful, second I would think there is a very lucky manager. If he got them playing with more effort and commitment and purpose then I would start to consider that there was something wrong with Nigel's approach. Results are often made on fine margins, the management team cannot be held responsible for the individual mistakes that have cost us so many points, the gifting of possession, the dropped saves, the blind back passes, missed open goals, red cards... etc Of course there could be better managers out there, and whoever is in the dugout or watching from the stands will get my support, but I will not judge any new manager on their immediate returns but over a sustained period. Like I do the existing manager and during the 2 spells in charge I rate Nigel Pearson as the best manager we have had in a long time and I do think he is the best person to be in charge at the moment and will get my support until the owners decide otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 22 December 2014 Share Posted 22 December 2014 The blind pass back? The one from Konchesky, who every fan under the sun was saying shouldn't get a game this season? Who everyone wanted dropped in favour of Schlupp after six games? The one who has already been at fault for a good portion of our goals this season? Who was it who offered him a new deal, didn't buy a replacement and kept him in the side at the expense of an alternative who (a) is currently playing out of position, (b) was our left back for much of our league-sealing run last season and (c ) was man-of-the-match this season in the only game he played at left back? And don't get me started on playing De Laet for 15 games, or publicly berating our most creative player, or dropping our top scorer just as he's rediscovering his form and going on not to score a goal for two matches, or the old 'practise crossing all week, then finish the next game with two target men and no wingers whatsoever'. His errors this season have been abysmal ones. And that's coming from someone who still thinks he should stay. Konchesky has been mostly solid, but the amount of individual mistakes has ultimately gotten to him. At least with him you know you've got someone who knows this league to a certain extent. Why he was kept and no cover signed, we can only guess. Personally, I think it's simplistic to say it's down to the manager solely. Our recruitment policy over the summer clearly hasn't worked the way it should have (according to the manager himself). The opposition in this division is top-notch, down to the lower regions of mid-table. Premier League teams feature some of the best wingers you'll ever see on this planet. Schlupp has played relatively well at LB in the Championship, but that's also thanks to the type of opposing players he was facing. In the Premier League, Schlupp would've been found out just as any other of our inexperienced full-backs. The main boo-boy at the start of the season was De Laet, who looked too eager going forward and shaky going after his defensive duties. I hope I'm not mistaken, but wasn't Ulloa also dropped because he was injured or still coming back from a knock (sustained at Villa away)? Either way, it's not all that simple. But some prefer it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjslcfc Posted 22 December 2014 Share Posted 22 December 2014 I think we should keep Pearson but come on, if someone comes in and performances improve suddenly what else can you put it down to? One way or another sacking Pearson would have led to improvement. Isn't that the manager's job? What would prove that poor players have led to our problems is if bringing in a new manager leads to no significant improvement and they keep making the same mistakes. Surely that's pretty logical?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 22 December 2014 Share Posted 22 December 2014 Who picks and coaches the players, who tells them the tactics? If it's all down to the players then it doesn't matter who the manager is. That's like a teacher telling a kid exactly what to revise and improve for in an exam, doesn't mean the student is going to do well. Of course tactics are important, but it's the players mistakes that has been costing us time and time again. Pearson has tried different tactics and formations, but fundamentally we cannot give goals away like we have been if we want to get anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 22 December 2014 Share Posted 22 December 2014 Konchesky has been mostly solid, but the amount of individual mistakes has ultimately gotten to him. At least with him you know you've got someone who knows this league to a certain extent. Why he was kept and no cover signed, we can only guess. Personally, I think it's simplistic to say it's down to the manager solely. Our recruitment policy over the summer clearly hasn't worked the way it should have (according to the manager himself). The opposition in this division is top-notch, down to the lower regions of mid-table. Premier League teams feature some of the best wingers you'll ever see on this planet. Schlupp has played relatively well at LB in the Championship, but that's also thanks to the type of opposing players he was facing. In the Premier League, Schlupp would've been found out just as any other of our inexperienced full-backs. The main boo-boy at the start of the season was De Laet, who looked too eager going forward and shaky going after his defensive duties. I hope I'm not mistaken, but wasn't Ulloa also dropped because he was injured or still coming back from a knock (sustained at Villa away)? Either way, it's not all that simple. But some prefer it that way. No, I don't think it is 'all that simple'. But I'm not the one claiming that 'the players are to blame, not the manager, because they're the ones losing the games'. I mean, how would you ever be able to distinguish between a good and a bad manager if players alone held the responsibility for results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_Numan Posted 22 December 2014 Share Posted 22 December 2014 Surely every single manager has been judged on his players' standard of performance? I can't believe what an obvious thing to say this is. The good manager elicits quality performances from his players. How could this have been avoided, other than by buying better players in the summer? By consistently selecting your best players (even yesterday, our top scorer and only player with experience as a lone forward was playing second fiddle to a guy with a sixth of his goals, in a run of poor form, and who has never enjoyed much success as a lone forward); by acting quickly to drop players who are clearly letting you down (De Laet and Konchesky should have been dropped months ago, and we DO have valid alternatives), by settling the line-up and tactics so that the players know what they're doing, and by properly motivating them so that their work-rate is better than the oppositions which, more often than not, it isn't. He has made some appalling, amateurish mistakes. Our performances, largely as a consequence, have not been good enough. And he, like every other manager, will be judged on those performances. If we fire him and those performances improve, it will purely indicate that the new guy is doing a better job than Pearson. If we fire him and performances get worse will that purely indicate that Pearson was a better manager than he was given credit for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 22 December 2014 Share Posted 22 December 2014 No, I don't think it is 'all that simple'. But I'm not the one claiming that 'the players are to blame, not the manager, because they're the ones losing the games'. I mean, how would you ever be able to distinguish between a good and a bad manager if players alone held the responsibility for results? The manager's influence can be seen each match by the way team's are set up in terms of formation and how they attack and defend as a collective and how well they respond to their individual instructions before the whistle goes off (and sometimes how they respond to corrections during a game). At least on paper; that is all before taking into consideration that there's an opponent on the pitch with detrimental intentions, as well. Surely that much you do understand. The manager's influence reaches that far - the rest of the yard it's the players' job to take care of the endeavor. The great teams of times past will always be identified by the respective managers AND the players under them. But then again, we're having this discussion about a manager and a group of players who - with a few exceptions - have never played at the top level before, 17 games into the first spell back in the Premier League for the first time in ten years. Or did you think we'd win more games than lose them this campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 22 December 2014 Share Posted 22 December 2014 Or did you think we'd win more games than lose them this campaign? Comments like this aren't helpful to your otherwise pretty reasonable point. Not even the most pessimistic City fan would have had us down for 10 points at this stage. Nobody saw a run if 2 points in 12 games coming and latterly 9 defeats in the last 10 games. We've been bottom of the form table for about 2 months. People complaining aren't being unreasonable. The team is performing well below expectations at the moment and has been for ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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