Post Election Blues

[Benji]

I don't recall the left rioting when Labour governed from 2005-2010 with 35% of the national vote.

 

 

 

It is quite funny the sudden outcry on this.  Yet when the polls suggested the Tories would get the most votes, the most seats but not a majority, it was perfectly fine for the SNP and Labour to work together.  It's all got very bitter.

[Benguin]

I don't recall the left rioting when Labour governed from 2005-2010 with 35% of the national vote.

 

I was a little young to understand politics in 2005 but would have felt the same. My personal feeling is that constituency voting is not democracy.

[AoWW]

Michael Gove as Justice Secretary.

 

 

 

Kiss goodbye to your human rights. 

[Rincewind]

They may be going anyway. There are one or two sections that may not fit in with policies.

[Webbo]

The disproportionate funding cuts from central government to Councils with Labour

strongholds. In the mean time 4 Cabinet ministers constituencies have seen an increase

in funding.

I think you'll find Labour cut funding to Tory constituencies and boosted their constituencies when they were in power.

[Sir Fynwy]

I agree that fiscal autonomy is on the cards, but the details are very thin on the ground right now, and the 'blackhole' that the press talk about is entirely dependant on the details of any deal... and on oil prices which will not stay low forever. Ultimately I think fiscal autonomy would be a good thing for Scotland in the long run.

Scotland will have to be very careful for fiscal autonomy to work for them, the population is ageing and there is quite a lot of reliance on oil and banking, both of which are hardly stable ground. A recovery in the oil price would help but production is falling and fields are closing in the North Sea. The strident tone of Scottish nationalists that has woken English nationalists means there will be little sympathy in London if the Scots are squeezed.

A Pyrrhic victory is still a victory.

[Guest Bilo]

Michael Gove as Justice Secretary.

 

 

Kiss goodbye to your human rights. 

 

After the catastrophic job he did in education, I'm astonished he's been allowed anywhere near a government department again.

 

Jobs for the boys, I suppose.

[Carl the Llama]

I don't recall the left rioting when Labour governed from 2005-2010 with 35% of the national vote.

 

It is quite funny the sudden outcry on this.  Yet when the polls suggested the Tories would get the most votes, the most seats but not a majority, it was perfectly fine for the SNP and Labour to work together.  It's all got very bitter.

...

 

I was a little young to understand politics in 2005 but would have felt the same. My personal feeling is that constituency voting is not democracy.

^^ What he said.

 

Maybe the younger generation are just a little more morally conscious than our predecessors with their generous pensions, low-interest mortgages, and early retirement age. 

[David Guiza]

Michael Gove as Justice Secretary.

 

 

Kiss goodbye to your human rights. 

Also the same man who wanted to reintroduce hanging back in 1998. Then again, there's probably a fair few that would agree.

[Benji]

...

 

^^ What he said.

 

Maybe the younger generation are just a little more morally conscious than our predecessors with their generous pensions, low-interest mortgages, and early retirement age. 

 

I could maybe accept that, IF as I say when in the lead up to the election people were making this point when it looked nailed on that the Tories would gain the most votes, win the most seats but not be able to form a government.  I seem to remember as an example on here in one of the other threads quite strong defence of Labour relying on the SNP if it meant hitting a majority as being constitutionally fine.  I'm sure some were making the point pre-election, but it has completely blown up as an issue after the result which gives the whole argument a sense of bitterness.

[MooseBreath]

Can't believe it's been a few days now and still no sign of labour and their voters accepting this defeat with any kind of grace. Truly odious people.

[Jon the Hat]

There are a few articles coming out now re Labour having completely lost its connection to its voters and its roots.  Who even knows what they stand for now?

 

As you say not much grace around so far, it is amazing to hear Kinnock saying the electorate have been duped.  They need to wake up to the fact that they aren't offering what most of the national wants.

[Finnegan]

Labour haven't had a clue what direction they're moving in since Blair made them more right wing than the Tories.

[Hirsty The Blue 94]

Gove as Justice secretary really is shameful. Ballsed up education so got shifted out, now back in cabinet as a crucial cog. Tories can now finally repeal the HRA they have been so desperately trying to do for the last 5 years. 

 

 

There are a few articles coming out now re Labour having completely lost its connection to its voters and its roots.  Who even knows what they stand for now?

 

As you say not much grace around so far, it is amazing to hear Kinnock saying the electorate have been duped.  They need to wake up to the fact that they aren't offering what most of the national wants.

I think half the problem is what they stand for is not what people want. Left wing politics will never win another election because a large part of the electorate care far more about self interest than the needs of those who need protecting. Most Blairites said following the defeat that moving away from the centre has cost Labour the election. But most core Labour supporters want the party to stick to its socialist values. In terms of the future for Labour it is a difficult one, either move more central but abandon a large part of what the Party is founded upon or stay towards the left but never win another election.

 

I don't buy into all this rubbish that it's an illegitimate government because of only receiving 36% of 60% of the electorate. This is they way the system has worked for years and people who don't vote can be blamed for that. I am worried though about the direction the UK will be heading in over the next 5 years. Potentially losing Scotland, leaving the EU, repealing the HRA and the Hunting Act are all pretty worrying developments.

[Guest]

There are a few articles coming out now re Labour having completely lost its connection to its voters and its roots.  Who even knows what they stand for now?

 

As you say not much grace around so far, it is amazing to hear Kinnock saying the electorate have been duped.  They need to wake up to the fact that they aren't offering what most of the national wants.

 

I agree that the people don't know what labour stands for, however I also think the country has been duped, the Tories made plenty of claims that just weren't true. I also agree that Labour need to wake up to the fact that they aren't offering what the nation wants. Sadly neither are the tories and maybe the people will wake up to that too - but it's doubtful. The people are media led sheep.

Labour haven't had a clue what direction they're moving in since Blair made them more right wing than the Tories.

 

this too.

[David Guiza]

Can't believe it's been a few days now and still no sign of labour and their voters accepting this defeat with any kind of grace. Truly odious people.

I'm not a Labour supporter by any means, but do you really have a problem with people protesting against potential changes in the law that they disagree with? By which I mean people contesting decisions that they feel strongly about, and not those almost rioting for the sake of mob mentality. 

Maybe we should all be quiet, sit still, and politley applaud the great work of the Tories.

[Ollie93]

I'm not a Labour supporter by any means, but do you really have a problem with people protesting against potential changes in the law that they disagree with? By which I mean people contesting decisions that they feel strongly about, and not those almost rioting for the sake of mob mentality. 

Maybe we should all be quiet, sit still, and politley applaud the great work of the Tories.

 

I have no problem with peaceful protests, in fact encourage everyone to have a say in whatever they believe in. But these people who clash with police and deface a war monument are morons. What do they think is going to happen, the government get re-elected? 

 

It didn't matter who got voted in to power there would have been upset. Correct the voting system doesn't work, but that's the way it is and we have to deal with that. 

[Rincewind]

I wonderhow many of those complaining didn't vote or did a protest vote. I saw on Facebook people saying they never trusted Labour and also  never  wanted another five years  of Tory. They intended to vote Green or UKIP.  I pointed out that they would not win enough seats and it would be doubtful they would unseat standing Labour or Tory  MP's in marginal seats. I got blasted for suggesting  voting Labour if there  was a chance of winning. Bujt it was  OK voting for the others in safe seats. Some even supported SNP whilst living in England.  I think it was the hype about a Labour and Coalition that put people off. Even though a lot of voters in Scotland never wanted the Tory's in they still helped put them in by voting SNP  who will have  little impact or influence on a Tory led government. If it  was thought SNP would gain far fewer seats maybe more people in England wouldhave voted  Labour instead of wasting a vote.

However there is not much anyone can do but hope Labour appoint a Leader  that is in touch with the people and is  vocal in the commons and in public.

[David Hankey]

The 'First past the post' electoral system is what we have and I get sick and tired hearing about how unfair it is. Of course it is but so would any system be. 

 

You tend to find minorities always argue for change but no Government, when in Office, has been prepared to change it. Why, because when they get into power it suits them.

 

This would be the same if UKIP, The Greens, or Lib-Dems ever got into power  -  they wouldn't change a system which got them into Office.

 

If there is so much distaste for this system why doesn't someone set up a Petition, gather the 100,000 supporters and force Parliament to discuss it?

[Ollie93]

I've read a lot of people mentioning how our 'Human Rights' are going to disappear? Could someone please explain what is going on?

[Jon the Hat]

I wonderhow many of those complaining didn't vote or did a protest vote. I saw on Facebook people saying they never trusted Labour and also  never  wanted another five years  of Tory. They intended to vote Green or UKIP.  I pointed out that they would not win enough seats and it would be doubtful they would unseat standing Labour or Tory  MP's in marginal seats. I got blasted for suggesting  voting Labour if there  was a chance of winning. Bujt it was  OK voting for the others in safe seats. Some even supported SNP whilst living in England.  I think it was the hype about a Labour and Coalition that put people off. Even though a lot of voters in Scotland never wanted the Tory's in they still helped put them in by voting SNP  who will have  little impact or influence on a Tory led government. If it  was thought SNP would gain far fewer seats maybe more people in England wouldhave voted  Labour instead of wasting a vote.

However there is not much anyone can do but hope Labour appoint a Leader  that is in touch with the people and is  vocal in the commons and in public.

 

You do realise Labour would have lost even if they won all of Scotland right?

[Alf Bentley]

Can't believe it's been a few days now and still no sign of labour and their voters accepting this defeat with any kind of grace. Truly odious people.

 

Is a blanket condemnation of all your opponents as "truly odious people" an example of acting with grace, Moose?

 

Labour politicians are all over the media discussing precisely how they should respond to the defeat; there's no denial of that defeat.

Naturally, a lot of leftists are depressed at the result, upset at the divisions in the nation and fearful of the personal/social consequences. If the result had been the other way round, there would have been an equivalent reaction on the other side (indeed, that fear was on display during the campaign - fear of Labour in an illegitimate alliance with the SNP wasting the country's money, wrecking the economy etc.).

 

There's nothing wrong with protests. They're part of democracy (though, after the Iraq War protest, I'm not sure how much they achieve, beyond building morale).Of course, Class War/SWP-type extremists will seek to use such situations for their own discreditable ends and a few immature hotheads will chuck bricks through windows or whatever, but they're very much a tiny minority.

 

In the medium-term the election may be a good one to lose. Cameron (and not Labour) will now have to deal with the EU referendum (& immigration discontent) and the Scottish devolution/independence situation. Osborne (and not Balls) will have to make good on the claim that they're building a successful British economy. If growth/employment stagnate, the deficit remains high or real incomes remain low, they will no longer be able to blame Labour or to claim that they've turned the economy round.

 

The Tories will also have to finally explain where they're going to find £13bn of welfare cuts and £12bn of cross-departmental spending cuts or find some other way of cutting the deficit.....unless they go back on their plan to eliminate it, as they did last time. Probably a mixture is my guess - some nasty cuts (soon - they'd have to be early in the parliament for electoral reasons) and a failure to cut the deficit as fast as they've promised.

 

They'll have to address all these issues with a tiny majority, vulnerable to byelection losses (Lab 1974 & Con 1992 both started off with small majorities, but ended up relying on minor parties) - and to agitation from their right-wingers, particularly if Cameron fails to stem immigration and fails to get meaningful concessions from the EU (both very likely outcomes).

 

#poisonedchalice

#Labourlandslide2020 

[Carl the Llama]

I've read a lot of people mentioning how our 'Human Rights' are going to disappear? Could someone please explain what is going on?

That's easy.  Tory boy Cameron's going to give social housing to the private sector, then he's going to set up work camps for the unemployed where they will only be paid in canned foodstuffs.  If they perform adequately in their tasks they will be allowed to retain heating and electricity for another day and their children won't be kicked out of the local school.

[Benji]

I've read a lot of people mentioning how our 'Human Rights' are going to disappear? Could someone please explain what is going on?

 

There is an intention to repeal the Human Rights Act.  People conveniently miss the point that says a new Bill of Rights will be introduced in its place and will intend to adopt, I believe, most/all of the rights already included in the HRA.  Reading between the lines, it seems that Theresa May has had enough of having deportation orders passed through our judicial system only to be blocked by the ECtHR.  Some would argue the ECtHR keeps the UK in check, but I'd argue our own judicial system should be sufficiently impartial to achieve this.  Either way, don't let yourself believe we're suddenly going to be living under some tyrannical rule where freedom of speech is an indictable offence and you'll be working in a concentration camp for incorrectly filing your tax return.

[Rincewind]

I think they want to do away with some of the rights regarding law meaning not everyone will be afford to pay for a solicitor. Also some privacy laws the right to protest may be changed They want to be able to refuse to abide to certain sections of the bill as they come up so no High Court judge can deem any policies a breach of the act.

However they will justify the changes by highlighting one section which will receive more media attention and will be welcome by a portion of of the general public, that is being able to hold or deport suspected terrorists. If you disagree the focus will not be on this  but other sections please rember this post and refer back to it when the time comes.