Post Election Blues

[Carl the Llama]

I wonder if you'd be posting that if another party won ?

The coalition govt had more than 50% of the vote combined and yet the same people complained it wasn't legitimate.

The Tories got more votes than anyone else, they won the election, get over it.

Yes.  I deal in pure figures and had another party won with the same numbers I would be forced to conclude the same thing.  

 

Vis a vis the coalition it's my opinion that the distinct gulf in ideology meant that they were never going to be truly representative of the populace and didn't they prove that to be spot-on.  It will be a long time before the lib-dems regain all the lost confidence from them binning major policies that put them in with the chance of a coalition in the first place.  I agree with the logic that the Tories had more votes so they deserved the chance to form a coaliton, but a lab-lib coalition would have still represented >50% of the voting populace but with the benefit of the differences in policy being more reconcilable.

 

They did get more votes and I have no problem with that.  I'm just analysing the evidence against the UK being a true democracy.

[Vacamion]

Don't forget that the constituency boundaries are currently rigged against the Conservatives, too.

[MPH]

Evidently not if they were voting in the Brighton Pavillion constituency.

  

I don't agree. They didn't win seats but they did show that the Green Party has a lot of support and did their bit to demonstrate how our electoral system doesn't give people proper representation.

 

Might not have been what they wanted but it was something.

Bloody hell!

[Carl the Llama]

  

Bloody hell!

I was doing the whole 'serious response to an obvious joke' thing.  Disappointed you didn't see that tbh.  Not sure what to do with myself now I'm too upset.

[Guest]

Don't forget that the constituency boundaries are currently rigged against the Conservatives, too.

but not for long.

[Rincewind]

They'll make Scotland a part of Tory constituancies.

[DennisNedry]

Don't forget that the constituency boundaries are currently rigged against the Conservatives, too.

 

Are they really?

[Vacamion]

Are they really?

Yes.

It takes more votes to elect Conservative MPs than Labour ones because of the way the boundaries are drawn.

The plan to make the system fairer during the last parliament was scuppered by the LibDems.

Analysis (by the not usually Tory inclined C4) can be found here

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-voting-system-rigged-favour-labour/19025

[Webbo]

Yes.  I deal in pure figures and had another party won with the same numbers I would be forced to conclude the same thing.  

 

Vis a vis the coalition it's my opinion that the distinct gulf in ideology meant that they were never going to be truly representative of the populace and didn't they prove that to be spot-on.  It will be a long time before the lib-dems regain all the lost confidence from them binning major policies that put them in with the chance of a coalition in the first place.  I agree with the logic that the Tories had more votes so they deserved the chance to form a coaliton, but a lab-lib coalition would have still represented >50% of the voting populace but with the benefit of the differences in policy being more reconcilable.

 

They did get more votes and I have no problem with that.  I'm just analysing the evidence against the UK being a true democracy.

The tories got almost 37%, UKIP got  12.6%, throw in the DUP that's over 50% Would you be happier if they all formed a coalition?

[Webbo]

Yes.

It takes more votes to elect Conservative MPs than Labour ones because of the way the boundaries are drawn.

The plan to make the system fairer during the last parliament was scuppered by the LibDems.

Analysis (by the not usually Tory inclined C4) can be found here

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-voting-system-rigged-favour-labour/19025

Ms McGuinness’s figures are absolutely right. They come from the 2005 general election, when Tony Blair’s Labour won 35.2 per cent of the popular vote, compared to 32.4 per cent for the Conservatives.

Despite the fact that the difference between the total votes cast for both parties were very small, Labour ended up with 355 seats and the Tories got just 198. That’s 55 per cent compared to 30 per cent.

 

 

Yet strangely there were no complaints about the voting system that year.

[Carl the Llama]

The tories got almost 37%, UKIP got  12.6%, throw in the DUP that's over 50% Would you be happier if they all formed a coalition?

It would certainly be more democratic if that's what you mean. That said, the result is what it is and Tory governance is 100% above board regarding the law of the land and nobody can dispute that.

[David Hankey]

At the end of the day the SNP in terms of the United Kingdom as a whole are still a minority party.

 

Yes they won 50 odd seats in Scotland as expected but only polled 1.45M votes out of a total Scottish Electorate of 4.1M.

 

I can understand them wanting to impose their will in Parliament but they should remember that 42.3M people in the United Kingdom couldn't vote for them!!

[Guest]

At the end of the day the SNP in terms of the United Kingdom as a whole are still a minority party.

 

Yes they won 50 odd seats in Scotland as expected but only polled 1.45M votes out of a total Scottish Electorate of 4.1M.

 

I can understand them wanting to impose their will in Parliament but they should remember that 42.3M people in the United Kingdom couldn't vote for them!!

 

But the Tories must surely take into account that people north of the border want something different to many other areas. Surely that can be accommodated, the UK is one nation and the Tories are there to help all the people in Britain.

[Strokes]

Exactly right, how anyone can think that protest/riot/whatever it was needs discrediting when they've managed to that perfectly fine themselves is beyond me. Never mind how anyone can laugh at the suggestion (strokes) ridiculous.

I'm afraid the country voted the tories in, democratically, I didn't vote for them but that's the way it is.

On the subject of fox hunting at least I'm pretty sure any vote in the commons will result in the ban remaining in place. There will be too many Conservative MP's put under pressure by their constituents to keep the ban in place and most if not all of the opposition parties bar the UKIP mp will vote against it.

I think you misinterpreted the direction of my laughter.

[David Hankey]

But the Tories must surely take into account that people north of the border want something different to many other areas. Surely that can be accommodated, the UK is one nation and the Tories are there to help all the people in Britain.

I'm not saying this Government or another other United Kingdom Government should not serve all of the people, however, not all of Sturgeon's demand can or should be met.

 

Remember, the SNP are only in being to see Scotland become totally independent. They will not rest until that happens despite the overwhelming majority last October that Scotland should remain in the UK. There is more to this Government than those who reside in Scotland.

 

Also, remember, the North East in particular and the North of England in general reckon they are always hard done by Westminster but no-one can help the location of the capital and where Parliament is based.

[Guest]

I'm not saying this Government or another other United Kingdom Government should not serve all of the people, however, not all of Sturgeon's demand can or should be met.

 

Remember, the SNP are only in being to see Scotland become totally independent. They will not rest until that happens despite the overwhelming majority last October that Scotland should remain in the UK. There is more to this Government than those who reside in Scotland.

 

Also, remember, the North East in particular and the North of England in general reckon they are always hard done by Westminster but no-one can help the location of the capital and where Parliament is based.

 

With some decent evidence.

[Webbo]

With some decent evidence.

Such as?

[Benguin]

It has no credit, so no need to discredit it.

 

Their essentially rioting against a government the country has elected democratically on VE day. Very ironic. 

 

34% voted for them, 66% did not. Our electoral system is not representative of the democracy we fought for.

[Webbo]

34% voted for them, 66% did not. Our electoral system is not representative of the democracy we fought for.

Almost 37% actually. A lot of these protestors were socialist workers party, how many people voted for them?

[Sir Fynwy]

As an Englishman living in Scotland for 5 years and just voted SNP, I think their stance is entirely justified. You can moan about parts of England not being represented but that's because there's not a party that fits the bill - not because the setup is rigged or anything.

Scots know that nothing would have changed with labour and that's why they've turned to yellow in big numbers. The lib dems completely lost out due to siding with the Tories - and now the scots have a single rowdy, coherhant voice in Westminster. I think that's an excellent thing.

I am gutted about the Tories getting back in though and have felt pretty fed up last couple of days - until the game at least!

I expect that the government will look at stopping any flow of cash to Scotland and hand full fiscal responsibility to the Scottish Parliament, this will leave a blackhole in the Scottish budget that will put pressure on the SNP as tax revenues continue to fall from the North Sea.

I think the election result will be bad for all sorts of people who are currently celebrating victory.

[Benguin]

Almost 37% actually. A lot of these protestors were socialist workers party, how many people voted for them?

 

 

Not the point I was trying to make. What I mean is constituency voting means some parties get an unfair representation; UKIP getting 12% of votes and obtaining 1 seat and SNP getting 56 seats with 4% of votes. The point is there are much more people who didn't want the Tory's in power than there are that did.

 

I just hope that the conservatives, without the lib dems rationalising, listen to what people want and keep to their promises that the NHS is an importance. People say things have got better but I've been waiting for 6 months now for an appointment that would have taken 4-6 weeks under Labour.

[Monk]

I expect that the government will look at stopping any flow of cash to Scotland and hand full fiscal responsibility to the Scottish Parliament, this will leave a blackhole in the Scottish budget that will put pressure on the SNP as tax revenues continue to fall from the North Sea.

I think the election result will be bad for all sorts of people who are currently celebrating victory.

 

 

I agree that fiscal autonomy is on the cards, but the details are very thin on the ground right now, and the 'blackhole' that the press talk about is entirely dependant on the details of any deal... and on oil prices which will not stay low forever. Ultimately I think fiscal autonomy would be a good thing for Scotland in the long run.

[Bilo]

I expect that the government will look at stopping any flow of cash to Scotland and hand full fiscal responsibility to the Scottish Parliament, this will leave a blackhole in the Scottish budget that will put pressure on the SNP as tax revenues continue to fall from the North Sea.

I think the election result will be bad for all sorts of people who are currently celebrating victory.

 

Indeed it will.

 

This could have a number of effects too. The first is that demands for another referendum on independence may grow, but with the falling North Sea revenues the SNP might find it even more difficult to win the argument. 

 

The second is that the explosion of SNP support might die down when the Scottish electorate realises that the SNP can't deliver a lot of their promises without significant tax hikes, although this is likely to make their Westminster even more aggressively hostile in opposition to the Tories. The irony is that for all Miliband's ruling out of a coalition in government that there may end up being one effectively in opposition, with Labour & the SNP blocking much of the Tories' plans in Parliament as one solid block vote. 

 

The third is that Labour, if they play it right, may be able to take advantage of the likely disquiet in Scotland. They could promise to restore the cash flow the Tories are likely to stop and the SNP are largely powerless to regain, meaning that the Scottish Labour Party would have to be somewhat more left than their English counterpart, which looks set to be more centrist in the coming months. This would be a gamble though, as it would risk alienating English voters who've already started turning their backs on Labour in some parts of the North.

 

Either way, a challenging five years awaits Scotland and their embrace of the SNP may yet come back to haunt the country. 

[Spiritwalker]

Such as?

The disproportionate funding cuts from central government to Councils with Labour

strongholds. In the mean time 4 Cabinet ministers constituencies have seen an increase

in funding.

[Jon the Hat]

34% voted for them, 66% did not. Our electoral system is not representative of the democracy we fought for.

I don't recall the left rioting when Labour governed from 2005-2010 with 35% of the national vote.