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davieG

The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

By davieG, in General Chat

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Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted

Leaving aside what I'd class as privliedges, no one realy knows what the fall out would be from us voting to leave, the Irish were being told by some the Lisbon treaty was a one time offer and when they voted "no" it came back the year after amended, given how close this has got I'd be absolutely amazed if we had another referendum anytime soon, politicians don't generally give these out unless they know what the result is, they never expected it to get this close and I doubt we'll be getting another chance.

 

(Ironically as I'm about to say below, the only chance of a referendum next time around might have to come from the left)

 

Don't know if anyone watched the live show on Sky News with an audience last night but Jeremy Corbyn finally put the long awaited case for Lexit across, very good as well he was - one thing that struck me was when he said "We should stay in for the time being to see if we can change it" - not the words of a man fully committed for any serious period of time.

 

Maybe he's actually the political genius here instead of Boris, waits until 2019 Euro elections, sees the vote shift to the hard/extreme right and then campaigns for a referendum in his 2020 manifesto as he can't implement his policies while inside of it, sweeps up still annoyed Tories and Kippers and usurps Boris to waltz into Number 10.

I'd vote for that.
Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted

Perhaps contempt was a big strong because I haven't made myself understood there, I don't think.

 

I think it's perfectly plausible that in the event of a Brexit scientific research funding would remain untouched and business would go on (pretty much) as usual, but my issue is that 'business as usual' is piss poor regardless of what UK party is running the show at any one time, because of a longstanding belief in the UK of the moneyed and political interests valuing arts over sciences.

 

Outside of its use in warfare, I have little faith in most single nation governments regarding scientific research.

 

 

 

I can only speak for my own views. Even as a supporter of the arts on various levels I think scientific research and development is paramount for the future of go-ahead nations, in terms of future jobs, income, competitiveness, forward planning and quality of life, to mention just a few things.     

Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted

Wait, wait, wait.

 

Is the argument now:

 

"We don't need to pool resources to counter larger countries economies, we'll FRACK our way into economic world dominance!!!!"

Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted

Incidentally, there are shed loads or economists and historians in the UK.

 

You can easily list loads of those and say "LOOK ECONOMISTS/HISTORIES SUPPORT LEAVE/REMAIN (delete as appropriate)!!"

 

Brilliant.

Nick

Nick

Posted
Posted

Yes, your Labour Party have long made that clear but at least you've acknowledged as much. . 

 

 

My Labour party?

 

The trouble is with you is that you for some moronic reason think I'm 'Ultra'?

 

And that really is daft.

Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted

My Labour party?

 

The trouble is with you is that you for some moronic reason think I'm 'Ultra'?

 

And that really is daft.

 

 

Sincere apologies if you're not.  

foxinexile

foxinexile

Posted
Posted

Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread, but as a Remain voter, I'm genuinely interested to hear what people's opinions are (from both sides). Until today I didn't realise that the outcome of the referendum isn't legally binding (I must've been hiding under a rock somewhere!). If the outcome is Leave, do you think the government might decide to put the vote to parliament and hope to win enough votes to overturn the public vote? I would expect that it would be more likely for a majority of Westminster to vote Remain in this situation (just my personal opinion, so I may be wrong). 

 

Do you think there's a possibility this could happen? That the government would attempt to overturn the outcome if it wasn't in their favour? If this happened the implications would be huge and I'm struggling to decide whether Cameron would be so audacious to do this or whether it would amount to effective political suicide. If the outcome is Leave, I won't like it but will begrudgingly accept it and move on; however, if this situation arose even I would have to say it would be abhorrent and make a mockery of our democracy.

 

I can't come to a conclusion as to whether the government would actually do this?

johnny the fox

johnny the fox

Posted
Posted

Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread, but as a Remain voter, I'm genuinely interested to hear what people's opinions are (from both sides). Until today I didn't realise that the outcome of the referendum isn't legally binding (I must've been hiding under a rock somewhere!). If the outcome is Leave, do you think the government might decide to put the vote to parliament and hope to win enough votes to overturn the public vote? I would expect that it would be more likely for a majority of Westminster to vote Remain in this situation (just my personal opinion, so I may be wrong). 

 

Do you think there's a possibility this could happen? That the government would attempt to overturn the outcome if it wasn't in their favour? If this happened the implications would be huge and I'm struggling to decide whether Cameron would be so audacious to do this or whether it would amount to effective political suicide. If the outcome is Leave, I won't like it but will begrudgingly accept it and move on; however, if this situation arose even I would have to say it would be abhorrent and make a mockery of our democracy.

 

I can't come to a conclusion as to whether the government would actually do this?

that's a big no..

Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted

Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread, but as a Remain voter, I'm genuinely interested to hear what people's opinions are (from both sides). Until today I didn't realise that the outcome of the referendum isn't legally binding (I must've been hiding under a rock somewhere!). If the outcome is Leave, do you think the government might decide to put the vote to parliament and hope to win enough votes to overturn the public vote? I would expect that it would be more likely for a majority of Westminster to vote Remain in this situation (just my personal opinion, so I may be wrong). 

 

Do you think there's a possibility this could happen? That the government would attempt to overturn the outcome if it wasn't in their favour? If this happened the implications would be huge and I'm struggling to decide whether Cameron would be so audacious to do this or whether it would amount to effective political suicide. If the outcome is Leave, I won't like it but will begrudgingly accept it and move on; however, if this situation arose even I would have to say it would be abhorrent and make a mockery of our democracy.

 

I can't come to a conclusion as to whether the government would actually do this?

 

It's legally binding in that the parliament must then vote on our exit, because referendums don't pass laws.

 

If MPs then voted against the wishes of their constituents, however, they'd be signing their own resignation letters.

Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted

Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread, but as a Remain voter, I'm genuinely interested to hear what people's opinions are (from both sides). Until today I didn't realise that the outcome of the referendum isn't legally binding (I must've been hiding under a rock somewhere!). If the outcome is Leave, do you think the government might decide to put the vote to parliament and hope to win enough votes to overturn the public vote? I would expect that it would be more likely for a majority of Westminster to vote Remain in this situation (just my personal opinion, so I may be wrong). 

 

Do you think there's a possibility this could happen? That the government would attempt to overturn the outcome if it wasn't in their favour? If this happened the implications would be huge and I'm struggling to decide whether Cameron would be so audacious to do this or whether it would amount to effective political suicide. If the outcome is Leave, I won't like it but will begrudgingly accept it and move on; however, if this situation arose even I would have to say it would be abhorrent and make a mockery of our democracy.

 

I can't come to a conclusion as to whether the government would actually do this?

Nothing would suprised me, political suicide in this country but maybe a top job in Europe would await.
DJ Barry Hammond

DJ Barry Hammond

Posted
Posted

@@foxinexile

A possibility might be a stalling tactic, to allow a new proposition to come from the EU. If that also coupled with an almighty crash around our ears, politicans in favour of remain could have bought them an excuse to override... BUT and this is a big but, I think a vote in the House of Commons in that event would be very difficult to win.

Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted

Our ability to successfully direct our future is based on our relative economic muscle.

Our economic power dwindled after much larger countries caught up with the industrial revolution.

We should therefore attempt to match the weight of much larger economies. We must either find another leverage like the industrial revolution or pool our economic markets as a leverage.

We haven't found the former, so we must do the latter. The latter is called the EU. It's incredibly far from perfect, and we should work with others in improving it.

But running away instead of working hard to reform it will do nothing but decrease our relative economic power further.

And I worry that decrease may embolden extremist right wing violence as scapegoatism.

I'd rather work with others on improving the EU. That's probably the crux of my argument.

Great Boos Up

Great Boos Up

Posted
Posted

I'm still undecided. ?????

 

The countries at an infrastructure bursting point with too many people coming to work here in too short a timescale, and I'm not fooled by statistics~ it must be between 10 and 15 million! but nobody will ever know as statistics are based on the electoral register.

However those same people boost and prop up our economy, and staying put keeps the pound stable against the euro. Great business for all (unless the banks fvck it up)

 

If we could ensure that the EU member countries stay as they are and not include Turkey, Ukraine, Belarus and that former Yugoslavia lot then I'd be much happier to stay.

Len Finsbury

Len Finsbury

Posted
Posted

As widely expected, a win for Leave may result in another Scottish referendum. Therefore, there may be a certain amount of tactical voting north of the border. If a Scot wants independence from the UK, a leave vote may give them that opportunity, even if they are actually pro-EU - this could be quite harmful to the Remain campaign.

 

If this is the case, then my position as a Scottish resident would be interesting should they gain their independence from Britain but remain in Europe. During their last referendum, they stated that any current British citizens 'habitually residing' in Scotland would become Scottish citizens, so it's interesting whether this would still be the case and I would have the option of remaining an EU citizen too.

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