The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[apple987]

Only about 7% of the land is built on. Our population could quadruple and there would still be plenty of actual space.

That's absolute nonsense. I don't even care if it's an actual fact online or something. Are we talking about fields for sheep and cows? Countryside? Let me know.

[Carl the Llama]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/leaked-uk-plan-to-open-doors-for-1m-turks-n085h225w

Yes that's exactly the same as granting them EU membership.

[leicsmac]

So we are the 78th country in the world according to area size

And 22nd country in world according to population.

It's actually getting to the point where birth control might be needed in 10 years. The country is running out of space.

I literally can't even believe this is even a debate. How can everyone not see that this country isn't big enough for all this migration?

Imagine living in a country with roughly the same land area as England, with the same population...only 70% of the country is mountainous and can't be developed while a further 15-20% is farmland for staple crops.

Almost everyone lives in the remaining 10-15%.

Come on over to Korea, and see TRUE population density - as well as the amazing solutions they have come up with for it. The UK population could triple and it still wouldn't come close.

[Grewks]

Those who are arguing that immigration can be a 'positive' are indeed correct.....but not uncontrolled immigration, where we have no choice but to let in every unskilled worker with an E.U. passport.

 

I fear that those Politicians who are deciding to vote remain, are doing so as they are too lazy/too incapable of doing their job......which is ultimately leading our country to the greatest possible standing in the world, not helping other European and worldwide nations benefit at the expense of ourselves.

 

 

 

This has all boiled down to Cameron's, and the EU's, incompetence during his 'great negotiation'.Which was as profitable for us as a nation, as if I entered my local post office to exchange a ten pound note for two fives. Of course Cameron has to take a large amount of the blame for this, but so do the E.U. 

 

 

Whatever happens tomorrow, the E.U. have lost. A majority of less than 60-40 in favor of remain, will see Cameron lose his job and will likely see him being replaced by a pro-leave Tory, effectively meaning we will be led by a pro-leave government.

[Carl the Llama]

Those who are arguing that immigration can be a 'positive' are indeed correct.....but not uncontrolled immigration, where we have no choice but to let in every unskilled worker with an E.U. passport.

 

I fear that those Politicians who are deciding to vote remain, are doing so as they are too lazy/too incapable of doing their job......which is ultimately leading our country to the greatest possible standing in the world, not helping other European and worldwide nations benefit at the expense of ourselves.

 

 

 

This has all boiled down to Cameron's, and the EU's, incompetence during his 'great negotiation'.Which was as profitable for us as a nation, as if I entered my local post office to exchange a ten pound note for two fives. Of course Cameron has to take a large amount of the blame for this, but so do the E.U. 

 

 

Whatever happens tomorrow, the E.U. have lost. A majority of less than 60-40 in favor of remain, will see Cameron lose his job and will likely see him being replaced by a pro-leave Tory, effectively meaning we will be led by a pro-leave government.

Let them in, yes, but not let them stay and take benefits so as has been said many times in this thread they're contributing by taking jobs that for some reason a British national was either unwilling or unqualified to do and paying the necessary taxes into the system.

[Dodgy Bob]

Which would mean less farmland and more flooding I presume amongst other thnigs.

Doesn't have to mean more flooding but less farmland probably yes but even in my hypothetical quadruple population scenario where all new buildings are built on rural land there would still be masses of farmland. In reality you wouldn't have to build on rural land anyway, we're getting much better at building on brownfield sites and you can always build higher.

[Dodgy Bob]

That's absolute nonsense. I don't even care if it's an actual fact online or something. Are we talking about fields for sheep and cows? Countryside? Let me know.

It is a fact that only 7% of the land is built on. If you don't care that it's a fact then I think this conversation between you and I has run its course. Have a great day buddy.

[Nick]

So we are the 78th country in the world according to area size

And 22nd country in world according to population.

It's actually getting to the point where birth control might be needed in 10 years. The country is running out of space.

I literally can't even believe this is even a debate. How can everyone not see that this country isn't big enough for all this migration?

 

 

They are all coming to get you apple987.

 

Be afraid.

[Guest]

It is a fact that only 7% of the land is built on. If you don't care that it's a fact then I think this conversation between you and I has run its course. Have a great day buddy.

Apple and his/her comments are starting to remind me of this Stewart Lee sketch

https://youtu.be/4n-UGQcG3Jw

You can prove anything with facts!

[Webbo]

Let them in, yes, but not let them stay and take benefits so as has been said many times in this thread they're contributing by taking jobs that for some reason a British national was either unwilling or unqualified to do and paying the necessary taxes into the system.

Says who? We had plumbers, brickies, carpenters , plasterers , painters and gardeners etc before the Poles came to this country.

[Buce]

It is a fact that only 7% of the land is built on. If you don't care that it's a fact then I think this conversation between you and I has run its course. Have a great day buddy.

Is that 7% of land that is suitable for building on, or does it include Scottish mountains etc?

[johnny the fox]

Only launched this morning it’s already done 3000 shares on Twitter

Seeing that jigsaw gives me the horn..

[Dodgy Bob]

Is that 7% of land that is suitable for building on, or does it include Scottish mountains etc?

7% of the total land so it would be correct to say that some of that is unsuitable for building on, but even taking that into account, there is plenty of space for new things to be built in this country. Any problems with population aren't to do with physical space, they're due to a lack of things being built.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Says who? We had plumbers, brickies, carpenters , plasterers , painters and gardeners etc before the Poles came to this country.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/10/uk-plumbers-builders-engineers-skill-crisis-economy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241999/Skilled-worker-shortage-hits-efforts-beat-UK-housing-crisis-scarcity-plumbers-electricians-kitchen-fitters-bricklayers.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/11810355/Shortage-of-brickies-carpenters-and-plasterers-forcing-building-companies-to-turn-down-work.html

[johnny the fox]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/682361/EU-referendum-Brussels-Jean-Claude-Juncker-David-Cameron-no-more-reform-Remain

 

Jean -claude has had dave in his office and told him straight...

[apple987]

7% of the total land so it would be correct to say that some of that is unsuitable for building on, but even taking that into account, there is plenty of space for new things to be built in this country. Any problems with population aren't to do with physical space, they're due to a lack of things being built.

Some you mean most. It isn't possible to build on most farmland!

[Carl the Llama]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/682361/EU-referendum-Brussels-Jean-Claude-Juncker-David-Cameron-no-more-reform-Remain

 

Jean -claude has had dave in his office and told him straight...

Good, there's really no need to mess with the current EU migration laws; they seem to work pretty well as a conveyor belt of manpower to fill the gaps we're leaving without leaving us at the mercy of benefits tourists.

 

Unless he wants to change the laws to allow us to forcibly move our home-grown benefits scroungers off to Greece and Spain to help out on fishing boats and clean office buildings, helping the locals rebuild their economy in which case I'm all for a bit of migration reform.

[Webbo]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/10/uk-plumbers-builders-engineers-skill-crisis-economy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241999/Skilled-worker-shortage-hits-efforts-beat-UK-housing-crisis-scarcity-plumbers-electricians-kitchen-fitters-bricklayers.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/11810355/Shortage-of-brickies-carpenters-and-plasterers-forcing-building-companies-to-turn-down-work.html

So by importing tradesmen we can keep wages down and not bother training apprentices? Thanks EU.

[Bettsj2]

Did anyone else start all this thinking definitely remain but after listening to the remain campaign, switched to leave?

[Strokes]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/10/uk-plumbers-builders-engineers-skill-crisis-economyhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241999/Skilled-worker-shortage-hits-efforts-beat-UK-housing-crisis-scarcity-plumbers-electricians-kitchen-fitters-bricklayers.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/11810355/Shortage-of-brickies-carpenters-and-plasterers-forcing-building-companies-to-turn-down-work.html

Great let the workers benefit from the increase in wages and power that will create, let the businesses think maybe they need to offer apprentices. Or of course we could forget all that and let them steal other counties trained people.

[Carl the Llama]

So by importing tradesmen we can keep wages down and not bother training apprentices? Thanks EU.

Well no, we can fill the skill gaps while apprentices - which have been heavily encouraged by the government over the past few years - learn those skills to take over the reigns.

 

 

Did anyone else start all this thinking definitely remain but after listening to the remain campaign, switched to leave?

No because the leave campaign's been equally if not more deceitful.  I started this all thinking definitely remain and after ignoring the campaign bollocks to look at the implications of either decision for myself have come to the informed decision that I'm still definitely remain and perfectly happy to explain to people why.  Unfortunately I'm still yet to meet anyone irl who wants us to leave and can explain why without making grossly inaccurate claims (having been successfully deceived by the Brexit campaign) or simply sounding like a bigot who hates foreigners.  I have met a lot of people who want us to leave.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Great let the workers benefit from the increase in wages and power that will create, let the businesses think maybe they need to offer apprentices. Or of course we could forget all that and let them steal other counties trained people.

  

So by importing tradesmen we can keep wages down and not bother training apprentices? Thanks EU.

I agree it's poor planning from the industry and government combined - but you can't force people down a career path. There has been expansion in Apprenticship's in this area since these stories, but for the economy and things like house building to move forward, you need to fill the gap in workforce as well.

Mean I recall at the time of these reports how people were complaining that they couldn't get a plumber / tradesman for months.

[Buce]

7% of the total land so it would be correct to say that some of that is unsuitable for building on, but even taking that into account, there is plenty of space for new things to be built in this country. Any problems with population aren't to do with physical space, they're due to a lack of things being built.

So the figure of 7% is considerably lower than it should be then.

I think the question then becomes, do we want to build scores - or hundreds - of 'new towns' and turn England (because it would largely be England) into one big conurbation, instead of this green and pleasant land?

I for one wouldn't want that.

[Countryfox]

So the figure of 7% is considerably lower than it should be then.

I think the question then becomes, do we want to build scores - or hundreds - of 'new towns and turn England (because it would largely be England) into one big conurbation, instead of this green and pleasant land?

I for one wouldn't want that.

And when all these towns have been built do we build lots of new roads .... Would new motorways go alongside the existing ones .. Or over the top ? ... Underground maybe ? Nope .. Wel'll just drive everywhere at 10mph and hope no one crashes or breaks down.

[Strokes]

I agree it's poor planning from the industry and government combined - but you can't force people down a career path. There has been expansion in Apprenticship's in this area since these stories, but for the economy and things like house building to move forward, you need to fill the gap in workforce as well.

Mean I recall at the time of these reports how people were complaining that they couldn't get a plumber / tradesman for months.

Unless you can show me apprentice/training places are not being taken up, all I can say is they aren't offering enough places, quick enough.

You can train to be an electrician or plumber in three months privately if you forgoe work commitments, how much do they want them? Hell I'd change trades if they were offering the crash courses out paid for, with a job at the end, just add more to my CV.