Bob Weasel Fox Posted 24 June 2015 Share Posted 24 June 2015 I personally think it is a great idea to increase the capacity Can't see how in any way shape and form it can be a bad thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 24 June 2015 Share Posted 24 June 2015 you are correct - I looked it up and greater Manchester is huge(includes Stockport etc) but the population classed as inner Manchester is quite low compared to Brum. We are however a bigger city than Nottingham,and much bigger than Derby but of course if you base size on counties then we are a reasonably close 3rd but catching up and parts of Derbyshire are ridiculously long journeys from Derby! I think we definitely have the potential to grow still significantly which is why this stadium expansion is important if we are to have any ambition at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad the Fox Posted 24 June 2015 Share Posted 24 June 2015 There were complaints about being forced to stand. Am I missing something here? So bristol install a small number of rail seats so those that want to stand can legitimately stand but people buy tickets in there and want to sit down? Couldn't they have bought tickets for seats elsewhere in the ground? And does that mean if fans complain about being forced to sit down will they take the seats out? Or is this highlighting an unforeseen problem regarding rail seats and that is that while a large number want them, want to stand, the majority of supporters have become comfortable with modern football and all seater stadia and want to sit down (on their fat arses with a picnic piled from their knees up to their chin). Or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hankey Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 You'll remember when the Thais bought the Club their ambitions included expanding the capacity of the stadium. Now that we are in the top flight the time has come to look seriously into this matter with the City Planners and execute the plans as soon as possible. There is no need for negativity, we are in the Premiership, proved we're good enough to stay there and must build on all the hard work of the last two seasons. Go for it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 You'll remember when the Thais bought the Club their ambitions included expanding the capacity of the stadium. Now that we are in the top flight the time has come to look seriously into this matter with the City Planners and execute the plans as soon as possible. There is no need for negativity, we are in the Premiership, proved we're good enough to stay there and must build on all the hard work of the last two seasons. Go for it!! Brilliant post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fynwy Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 The more pertinent part is identifying the demongraphics of a population. There could be 1bn people in Leicester but if they all like ice skating then expanding the football stadium is ****ing pointless. We are indeed a one club town, but that may well be because there wasn't enough interest to sustain two sides. Leicester isn't really a one club city, LCFC has to compete with the Tigers and a lot of supports are either football or rugby but definitely not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk exile Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 People can't get in to watch us now. Demand is already outstripping supply. We need to cater for the highest denominator. This - but I am still of opinion that we need to give ourselves a couple more seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 10k seats doesn't show ambition, it shows you have a lot of seats. Signing players of a certain calibre on wages comparable to other top stars shows ambition. Players don't give a flying **** how many seats you have, they have no emotional attachement to your club but they do have quite strong feelings towards their bank balance. Bums on seats don't pay wages, corporate bums eating corporate food do. Anfield, the Emirates, White Heart Lane etc have been expanded or are scheduled to be, not so the proles can get in, but so more hospitality packages can be sold and seats which retail at £35 suddently generate close to £120. These extra seats folks crave arent for you, they aren't for those who've drifted away with family and commitments, they are for those with short memories and deep pockets. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 10k seats doesn't show ambition, it shows you have a lot of seats. Signing players of a certain calibre on wages comparable to other top stars shows ambition. (1)Players don't give a flying **** how many seats you have, they have (20 no emotional attachement to your club but they do have quite strong feelings (3) towards their bank balance. Bums on seats don't pay wages, corporate bums eating corporate food do. Anfield, the Emirates, White Heart Lane etc have been expanded or are scheduled to be, not so the proles can get in, but so more hospitality packages can be sold and seats which retail at £35 suddently generate close to £120. These extra seats folks crave arent for you, they aren't for those who've drifted away with family and commitments, they are for those with short memories and deep pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 10k seats doesn't show ambition, it shows you have a lot of seats. Signing players of a certain calibre on wages comparable to other top stars shows ambition. Players don't give a flying **** how many seats you have, they have no emotional attachement to your club but they do have quite strong feelings towards their bank balance. Bums on seats don't pay wages, corporate bums eating corporate food do. Anfield, the Emirates, White Heart Lane etc have been expanded or are scheduled to be, not so the proles can get in, but so more hospitality packages can be sold and seats which retail at £35 suddently generate close to £120. These extra seats folks crave arent for you, they aren't for those who've drifted away with family and commitments, they are for those with short memories and deep pockets. 10,000 seats does show ambition. It states we're not a crappy little club punching above it's weight whilst we have our day in the sun and do the honourable thing and get relegated before we bore everyone and stink out the place. Think of Wimbledon and Wigan which was a nice story to start with but they end up overstaying their welcome. There are no clubs outside the Premier League that have 40,000+ stadiums.but within two years there will be at least eleven in the PL. There is obviously a correlation between attendance and revenue. I'm not just on about gate money but you improve your brand and get more lucrative sponsorship deals. You have the perception of a big club and that can attract better players. A player might choose Sunderland over us just because they are perceived to be a bigger club for the sole reason they have a bigger stadium and gates of 40,000+. Either we become the 12th club in England to have a 40,000+ stadium or just accept that our limitation will always be a club that is destined to spend a few seasons in the PL before getting relegated again and repeating the cycle. There are loads of clubs like us who have 30,000 stadiums and if we don't take our chance now it will be a Forest or a Derby who take our place in the PL and maybe they'll make the leap whilst we watch our missed ship sail into the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 10k seats doesn't show ambition, it shows you have a lot of seats. Signing players of a certain calibre on wages comparable to other top stars shows ambition. (1)Players don't give a flying **** how many seats you have, they have (20 no emotional attachement to your club but they do have quite strong feelings (3) towards their bank balance. Bums on seats don't pay wages, corporate bums eating corporate food do. Anfield, the Emirates, White Heart Lane etc have been expanded or are scheduled to be, not so the proles can get in, but so more hospitality packages can be sold and seats which retail at £35 suddently generate close to £120. These extra seats folks crave arent for you, they aren't for those who've drifted away with family and commitments, they are for those with short memories and deep pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 fook me my quotes keep appearing like Fleckney said them so here are my words - you'll need to refer to the above message 1) How do you know this. Were/are you a player? ambition is a show of intent to improve, to grow both in size and standing to improve their personal standing (2|) Probably true in the literal sense but it's their overall perception. Look back at the quotes from the last 10 players we signed and report back on how many when asked why they came quoted 'Leicester is a big club with great fanbase or use the words ambitious club or a variation on the same theme (3) whether it a few million quid or more, the 'small' extra revenue enables if the club so chooses to reward players better - If the £5m extra was divided across 20 players as a bonus it is a one off £250k nice little pay supplement - as an example of what you could use the money for (4) That is their model (assuming you are correct) - I don't know what our model is? From a pure business perspective why do we care? (yes we do from a fans perspective as ideally we want to cater for fans not Prawn digesters) but from a purely business perspective, the point is to increase revenue. Ok the revenue generated is not as great if you follow a family based model but it is still extra revenue. I am guessing that we are following a pile em high model which fits more fans in at lower margin per fan rather than few fans at high margin but either way it is additional revenue In all the points you have raised, there is much emotion for not expanding but little actual substance presenting a valid reason not to. Ok you may feel expansion is not to accommodate true fans and is just about making money but that itself is what the majority of fans want to see - LCFC spending money responsibly to attract better players and achieve success. Every penny we can make in revenue more than the competition is an extra penny advantage in attracting players. ok last point. If Soton, Brom, Swansea, Stoke and all clubs we are in REAL competition with all increased to 40k and we stood still and in 10-15 years increased to 60k and we stood still, would we still be able to class ourselves in the same bracket and compete on the same terms for players. I am so happy we have ambitious, risk aware but not risk averse, progressive, forward thinking, owners in place that understand the market, and what we need to do to firstly compete today, but also not only not get left behind, but push ahead tomorrow. extra 10k seats is just part of a much bigger growth plan - it is not the only consideration but you can't build a car if you don't have enough wheels! i'm gonna add a final final comment in anticipation of comeback.. you own a £100k house. You build a £15k extension. Have you spent £15k or converted cash to equity? Ok other market forces are at play but you would expect your property is now worth £115k ish. If that extension is a granny flat that you can rent out, not only have you converted cash to equity but you have generated additional revenue. Even if market forces push down the value of your property, you still benefit from revenue for some if not all of the time before you eventually sell. When you do sell, unless forced to do so at the wrong time, you convert your equity back to cash and the revenue generated in this period becomes profit. The owners are operating well within their budget and self financing the club so could even choose to provide the cash as an interest free loan without impacting club revenue at a cost that will have little impact on their bottom line (as they have converted cash to equity) and hence with very low risk to them OR us. Accountants out there may be able to pull me up on some finer points but equally elaborate how they could maybe even maximise further the value of this venture NB there is one risk you haven't mentioned but I'm not gonna serve it up to you on a plate!!!! (and yes I do have a counter argument if ever you do!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 The more pertinent part is identifying the demongraphics of a population. There could be 1bn people in Leicester but if they all like ice skating then expanding the football stadium is ****ing pointless. We are indeed a one club town, but that may well be because there wasn't enough interest to sustain two sides. Demographics change and the population of England isn't that different, football is the No 1 sport wherever you go in the country. Kids don't go to school and talk about their cricket or rugby teams. I look at the Sunderland model and think it's fantastic. Here is what is fundamentally a small club trying to give the perception it's a big club. Sunderland and Durham have half the population of Leicester and Leicestershire, they also have Darlington in Co Durham to compete with their fan base and no doubt Newcastle has encroached it's territory being a much bigger club and living off some success from the Keegan era. They still managed a very admirable 43,000 average in a 49,000 stadium last season despite serving up dross for most of it. They have loads of offers to fill the stadium with free tickets to school kids and bring a friend for £10 just to get bums on seats. They're without doubt the smallest club in that elite 11 but they play the part well. There's absolutely no reason with double our population that we shouldn't be able to compete with Sunderland for crowds. We should be encouraging a culture within our county that people watch our local team every other weekend like they probably have in the North East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haydos Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 10k seats doesn't show ambition, it shows you have a lot of seats. Signing players of a certain calibre on wages comparable to other top stars shows ambition. Players don't give a flying **** how many seats you have, they have no emotional attachement to your club but they do have quite strong feelings towards their bank balance. Bums on seats don't pay wages, corporate bums eating corporate food do. Anfield, the Emirates, White Heart Lane etc have been expanded or are scheduled to be, not so the proles can get in, but so more hospitality packages can be sold and seats which retail at £35 suddently generate close to £120. These extra seats folks crave arent for you, they aren't for those who've drifted away with family and commitments, they are for those with short memories and deep pockets. How can you be so confidently wrong about something? "The figures of this development speak for themselves: Arsenal’s match day revenue increased from £37.4m in their old Highbury stadium to over £90m in the new Emirates Stadium (equivalent to an additional income of over £1m per match), and that excludes other commercial revenue." Expanding the stadium would not only bring in more revenue, it signals intent, it shows potential signings you're on the up and that you have ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 How can you be so confidently wrong about something? "The figures of this development speak for themselves: Arsenal’s match day revenue increased from £37.4m in their old Highbury stadium to over £90m in the new Emirates Stadium (equivalent to an additional income of over £1m per match), and that excludes other commercial revenue." Expanding the stadium would not only bring in more revenue, it signals intent, it shows potential signings you're on the up and that you have ambition. Stand still and we WILL fall behind. It really is as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 How can you be so confidently wrong about something? "The figures of this development speak for themselves: Arsenal’s match day revenue increased from £37.4m in their old Highbury stadium to over £90m in the new Emirates Stadium (equivalent to an additional income of over £1m per match), and that excludes other commercial revenue." Expanding the stadium would not only bring in more revenue, it signals intent, it shows potential signings you're on the up and that you have ambition. I love people who can add strong challenge and present a very strong argument in about 90% less words than I ever seem to be able to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 How can you be so confidently wrong about something? "The figures of this development speak for themselves: Arsenal’s match day revenue increased from £37.4m in their old Highbury stadium to over £90m in the new Emirates Stadium (equivalent to an additional income of over £1m per match), and that excludes other commercial revenue." Expanding the stadium would not only bring in more revenue, it signals intent, it shows potential signings you're on the up and that you have ambition. Interesting balance to things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Interesting balance to things How can you be so confidently wrong about something? "The figures of this development speak for themselves: Arsenal’s match day revenue increased from £37.4m in their old Highbury stadium to over £90m in the new Emirates Stadium (equivalent to an additional income of over £1m per match), and that excludes other commercial revenue." Expanding the stadium would not only bring in more revenue, it signals intent, it shows potential signings you're on the up and that you have ambition. Don't just blindy post figures. Taken from the BBC in 2014 "Arsenal have defended the cost of their match tickets after the BBC's Price of Football survey showed they had the most expensive in the Premier League. At Thursday's AGM, chief executive Ivan Gazidis said ticket prices had gone up below the rate of inflation and wages. "The board has never approached ticket prices glibly or lightly," he added. But Arsenal Supporters Trust member Tim Payton said pricing promises had been broken and warned the club were "breaking the loyalty bond" with fans. Arsenal's most expensive match-day and season tickets are £97 and £2,013, with the cheapest coming in at £27 and £1,014. The Price of Football study reveals that Arsenal's £97 ticket is more than double the most expensive match-day ticket at seven other top-flight clubs, despite being reduced by £29 on last season... Payton told BBC Radio 5 live: "The point he (Gazidis) made was that the commercial income had gone up by over £100m in the last three years and the ticket income had hardly gone up at all. "But he conveniently forgot that three years ago he promised us that when the commercial income went up he would take the pressure off ticket prices. "It is just breaking that loyalty bond between the club and the fans." Here is a lovely graph to illustrate the point and if you wish to read more a nice website too http://thearsenalhistory.com/?p=8148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Our situation is not exactly comparable to Arsenal. Their increase in revenue (which will largely be extortionate executive box prices, no doubt) means nothing in relation to us other than getting more people in gets you more money overall (and even then, we won't be pulling in people with the same spending power that they do). It doesn't take a quote about Arsenal to prove you get more money for selling more tickets. Our question is whether we can fill a 42,000 stadium (doubtful) and whether we can stay in the Premier League for a sustained period (highly doubtful). I'm not even dead against it. There's just more to consider than a lot of people in favour seem to appreciate and it might be sensible to delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Our situation is not exactly comparable to Arsenal. Their increase in revenue (which will largely be extortionate executive box prices, no doubt) means nothing in relation to us other than getting more people in gets you more money overall (and even then, we won't be pulling in people with the same spending power that they do). It doesn't take a quote about Arsenal to prove you get more money for selling more tickets. Our question is whether we can fill a 42,000 stadium (doubtful) and whether we can stay in the Premier League for a sustained period (highly doubtful). I'm not even dead against it. There's just more to consider than a lot of people in favour seem to appreciate and it might be sensible to delay. The question is not whether we can fill a 42k stadium but who do the club want to fill a 42k stadium? I share many of your doubts over sustainability, there's a reason why only Liverpool, Villa, United, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton and Chelsea have never been relegated (I'm ignoring Swansea), the rest of us are merely passing through. I'd love us to fill a larger stadium, I'd love the club to be so successful that folks were desperate to attend but I am also wary that whilst I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a ticket there are many who cannot and they aren't generally the 'type' of fan clubs want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Our situation is not exactly comparable to Arsenal. Their increase in revenue (which will largely be extortionate executive box prices, no doubt) means nothing in relation to us other than getting more people in gets you more money overall (and even then, we won't be pulling in people with the same spending power that they do). It doesn't take a quote about Arsenal to prove you get more money for selling more tickets. Our question is whether we can fill a 42,000 stadium (doubtful) and whether we can stay in the Premier League for a sustained period (highly doubtful). I'm not even dead against it. There's just more to consider than a lot of people in favour seem to appreciate and it might be sensible to delay. I appreciate figured based on arsenals overpricing might not tell the whole story but I do believe personally we must strike whilst the iron is hot on this issues of increasing capacityThere are wonderful marketing gurus who will help fill the alleged empty seats Why are we so scared of trying to better ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 I appreciate figured based on arsenals overpricing might not tell the whole story but I do believe personally we must strike whilst the iron is hot on this issues of increasing capacity There are wonderful marketing gurus who will help fill the alleged empty seats Why are we so scared of trying to better ourselves? I don't see expanding the stadium as bettering ourselves. Improving the team, winning trophies, that is bettering yourself. Increasing corporate seating and ticket prices is an attempt to 'better' our fan base. I'd like to see younger fans given opportunities to attend, I'd like to see discounted tickets for the unemployed or those on benefits, I'd like to see a freeze on ticket pricing and that any coprorate seating is used to subsidise those groups above. Seeing more people like me at the football is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 I don't see expanding the stadium as bettering ourselves. Improving the team, winning trophies, that is bettering yourself. Increasing corporate seating and ticket prices is an attempt to 'better' our fan base. I'd like to see younger fans given opportunities to attend, I'd like to see discounted tickets for the unemployed or those on benefits, I'd like to see a freeze on ticket pricing and that any coprorate seating is used to subsidise those groups above. Seeing more people like me at the football is pointless. Fleckers surely with increased stadium capacity we as a club could offer better deals to encourage youngsters to attend etc? Surely it gives us more scope to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Fleckers surely with increased stadium capacity we as a club could offer better deals to encourage youngsters to attend etc? Surely it gives us more scope to do that? Nope. It gives us better scope to offer match day hospitality. Those on low incomes aren't reliable, if they had pots of cash they'd have simply bumped up the price of my seat, forced me out and got them in. The demographics of Leicester mean that finacially there is a ceiling on pricing for the 'ordinary' fan, the reason we're looking into a fan village pre match is there are enough comfortably wealthy supporters who spend nothing in the ground because they don't get here soon enough, yet the 'free pint' giveaway shows that people will get in early if there is an incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 The question is not whether we can fill a 42k stadium but who do the club want to fill a 42k stadium? I share many of your doubts over sustainability, there's a reason why only Liverpool, Villa, United, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton and Chelsea have never been relegated (I'm ignoring Swansea), the rest of us are merely passing through. I'd love us to fill a larger stadium, I'd love the club to be so successful that folks were desperate to attend but I am also wary that whilst I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a ticket there are many who cannot and they aren't generally the 'type' of fan clubs want. Your argument just doesn't stand up though. I'm sorry as I don't want to argue but I am so passionate about this because it is a strategic decision close to the types of strategies I develop and have done for 25 years. On each occasion, I carefully study all the factors, have a team of accountants develop various financial models to develop a list of options that I then progress until I am in a position to make a recommendation. 9 times out of 10, all this detailed market and financial analysis, business case building, risk analysis simply proves what I expected it to prove when I started the process off because I've learnt a great deal over the last 25 years and my initial fag packet maths normally stands up to the scrutiny of detailed financial modelling. ( The 1/10 i'm wrong I'm not far off) However, my area of business is far more complex than this. This is a no brainer. If we stand still now, we will get overtake and certainly won't edge closer to those ahead of us!! I'm not going to repeat everything I've already posted but will address the new point you raise which is your last paragraph. You seem to suggest that the extra seats will either be for elite fans and cost more money or you are suggesting that the cost of seats will be driven upwards if we expand. To be honest I'm not sure what you are trying to suggest any more 32k seats and 32k+ want them = a sellers market. Adding seats should not drive up price and the price will need to be set at a level that people will buy them, whether they want prawn Sarnies or a Pukka pie! couple of quotes for you.... - Failure is not fatal but failure to change might be! John Wooden - Fear stifles our thinking and actions. It creates indecisiveness that results in stagnation. I have known talented people who procrastinate indefinitely rather than risk failure. Lost opportunities cause erosion of confidence, and the downward spiral begins.Charles Stanley - Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm. Abraham Lincoln - Do not wait; the time will never be 'just right.' Start where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your command, and better tools will be found as you go along. George Herbert but most importantly - I'm comfortable with my body but I don't like my bum - I think it's too big. - Jennifer Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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