sylofox Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Yeah I hope they don't read this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 I remain to be convinced that 10,000 extra seats would make a massive difference in terms of revenue when you think about how much the TV deal is worth.Don't think it's just the revenue though really IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylofox Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 I remain to be convinced that 10,000 extra seats would make a massive difference in terms of revenue when you think about how much the TV deal is worth. So another 4m+ a season plus add on sales that go with it the club would not want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 I remain to be convinced that 10,000 extra seats would make a massive difference in terms of revenue when you think about how much the TV deal is worth.Compared to the tv deal it will be small, but it could get you two players on £50k a week. Or two players on 80k if they take the place of people earning 30k.It just helps nudge you ahead of others with a bit more quality in your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 I remain to be convinced that 10,000 extra seats would make a massive difference in terms of revenue when you think about how much the TV deal is worth. - Say average seat is £20 and average supporter spends £5 multiplied by 19 games = £4.75m ( better than a kick up the arse) - shows ambition and distinguishes you from the other clubs that have circa 30k capacities helping to lure players to us and not them. Better players boost performances and generate increased success - increased success = improved merchandise sales potentially beyond your current market boundaries = greater revenue. - You are showing the world on sky you are big, ambitious and something people want to be part of, you are showing the world how big the brand KING POWER is. If King - Power grows, then the owner's wealth grows. If their wealth grows, they can use it to generate greater wealth for the club and ignoring all of that... - simply put, if you own a taxi firm with 10 cars and are constantly turning people away, you operate an extra few cars to meet demand and grow your business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 So another 4m+ a season plus add on sales that go with it the club would not want? I didn't say that. I just don't think it would have a huge impact towards making us an established Premier League club when you consider the kind of money that all clubs will be getting from the TV deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Compared to the tv deal it will be small, but it could get you two players on £50k a week. Or two players on 80k if they take the place of people earning 30k. It just helps nudge you ahead of others with a bit more quality in your team. It'll get you nothing until you've paid the construction costs off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 - Say average seat is £20 and average supporter spends £5 multiplied by 19 games = £4.75m ( better than a kick up the arse) - shows ambition and distinguishes you from the other clubs that have circa 30k capacities helping to lure players to us and not them. Better players boost performances and generate increased success - increased success = improved merchandise sales potentially beyond your current market boundaries = greater revenue. - You are showing the world on sky you are big, ambitious and something people want to be part of, you are showing the world how big the brand KING POWER is. If King - Power grows, then the owner's wealth grows. If their wealth grows, they can use it to generate greater wealth for the club and ignoring all of that... - simply put, if you own a taxi firm with 10 cars and are constantly turning people away, you operate an extra few cars to meet demand and grow your business Players really couldn't care less about average attendances and capacity. At the elite level it is European football and wages, below that it is wages and possibly living in London if you're Johny Foreigner. Ultimately pay them what they want and they will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ups 6downs 2 cups Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 They say it's better to regret the things you have done than regret the things you haven't. If having a 42000 stadium gives us a chance to look a more attractive club than those who have 32000 capacities, which is quite a few, we should think about taking the plunge. Clearly there is always the threat of relegation but if we continue to be managed as we are, our best days may yet still be in front of us! The longest spell we have ever had in the top flight is just 12 seasons, no wonder many of our supporters expect relegation sooner rather than later and hence don't feel the need to expand. He who dares! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylofox Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 I didn't say that. I just don't think it would have a huge impact towards making us an established Premier League club when you consider the kind of money that all clubs will be getting from the TV deal. So you don't think a possible 5m would help. Why do people think the sky money is the be all and end all. What will establish us is the money over and above the sky money that other clubs can not find to spend on players and wages. The bigger clubs are bigger because the revenue they generate over and above the sky money. Why did Man U extend to 70k Arsenal move to a 60k stadium and Spurs are looking to build a 60k any why Liverpool are falling behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 So you don't think a possible 5m would help. Why do people think the sky money is the be all and end all. What will establish us is the money over and above the sky money that other clubs can not find to spend on players and wages. The bigger clubs are bigger because the revenue they generate over and above the sky money. Why did Man U extend to 70k Arsenal move to a 60k stadium and Spurs are looking to build a 60k any why Liverpool are falling behind. Primarily because they have gigantic fanbases and know they won't be relegated. It seems this is a touchy subject for some reason. All I'm saying is that it's not a big factor in becoming an established Premier League club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Are we wanting to expand so we can compete with the big boys? If so, wrong idea, as matchday revenue will only be a small source of income towards the transfer budget - meaning most matchday revenue will moreorless go to paying the player's weekly wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 I think we should look into expanding in a few seasons should we become reasonably established. I do get that we have a high demand at the moment but there are no guarantees that will continue if we don't improve results consistently in the future. If tickets are still hard to come by in two years, results are improving and we look like a more permanent top flight team then we should be increasing the capacity by nearly a third (which is what 10k would be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylofox Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Primarily because they have gigantic fanbases and know they won't be relegated. It seems this is a touchy subject for some reason. All I'm saying is that it's not a big factor in becoming an established Premier League club. So do Newcastle and they nearly went as they are run wrong. Trusting in our owners and Nige that we do not fvck up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylofox Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Are we wanting to expand so we can compete with the big boys? If so, wrong idea, as matchday revenue will only be a small source of income towards the transfer budget - meaning most matchday revenue will moreorless go to paying the player's weekly wages. No but the expansion could give us top 10 and a cup or good cup runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 It'll get you nothing until you've paid the construction costs off. Two different budgets, they can spend any amount on the stadium but the player budget is dependent on income the more money they turnover the more they can spend on players. Whether an extension will generate a significant amount we don't know but they hopefully will study the business case for it and presumably have done. They'll also be looking for the kudos it brings them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Primarily because they have gigantic fanbases and know they won't be relegated. It seems this is a touchy subject for some reason. All I'm saying is that it's not a big factor in becoming an established Premier League club. we have always been a yoyo middle of the road club. we will always be a yoyo middle of the road club....... Unless you take positive steps to change, to grow. There is no guarantee but there is one thing for sure. If you keep doing what you have always done, you will stay being what you have always been. If eating burgers made you fat, carrying on eating burgers will keep you fat! Some are still saying - wait until you are established. But were we established under Martin O'Neill? You could argue we were until he felt he couldn't take us any further because as a club, we didn't have the means to be as ambitious as we needed to be to grow further. He left and we soon found out that we were not established, just well managed. 100 meter runners that win do so by split seconds by putting that extra bit of training in, they do what it takes to get that very slight advantage to win. LCFC are not in competition with United, Chelsea etc but we are in competition with Southampton, Swansea, Brom, Stoke etc etc etc. All of those teams could go down and some have been in the prem for some years. Expanding the KP is just one piece of the jigsaw but that extra 10k seats may just be that extra hundreth of a second to separate us from our competition and to help us become established. Everton have a 40k Stadium and their fanbase is not a whole lot bigger than us but how often have they been relegated in the last 30 years (i've not checked) It's not just about size but it helps! And you will never grow your fanbase if you can't accommodate them. How do you know how high you can jump if you never let your feet leave the ground. The Thais are self made Billionaires! They didn't become self made Billionaires by waiting and seeing if they would win the lottery or thinking - you know what we are doing ok and making a profit, let's not try to get bigger in case nobody comes... if nobody comes, we will have a plan to make them come. I will end again by repeating - If you don't try to be something different, you will never be anything different to what you have always been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Two different budgets, they can spend any amount on the stadium but the player budget is dependent on income the more money they turnover the more they can spend on players. Whether an extension will generate a significant amount we don't know but they hopefully will study the business case for it and presumably have done. They'll also be looking for the kudos it brings them. Arsenal 'lost' nearly a decade to the Emirates. Our income is TV money, some portion of that will have to be set aside to finance any expansion and any kudos gained is gained from being in the Premier League and winning trophies. There are no awards for attendances, finishing 12th infront of 32k or 50k makes no difference to kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 we have always been a yoyo middle of the road club. we will always be a yoyo middle of the road club....... Unless you take positive steps to change, to grow. There is no guarantee but there is one thing for sure. If you keep doing what you have always done, you will stay being what you have always been. If eating burgers made you fat, carrying on eating burgers will keep you fat! Some are still saying - wait until you are established. But were we established under Martin O'Neill? You could argue we were until he felt he couldn't take us any further because as a club, we didn't have the means to be as ambitious as we needed to be to grow further. He left and we soon found out that we were not established, just well managed. 100 meter runners that win do so by split seconds by putting that extra bit of training in, they do what it takes to get that very slight advantage to win. LCFC are not in competition with United, Chelsea etc but we are in competition with Southampton, Swansea, Brom, Stoke etc etc etc. All of those teams could go down and some have been in the prem for some years. Expanding the KP is just one piece of the jigsaw but that extra 10k seats may just be that extra hundreth of a second to separate us from our competition and to help us become established. Everton have a 40k Stadium and their fanbase is not a whole lot bigger than us but how often have they been relegated in the last 30 years (i've not checked) It's not just about size but it helps! And you will never grow your fanbase if you can't accommodate them. How do you know how high you can jump if you never let your feet leave the ground. The Thais are self made Billionaires! They didn't become self made Billionaires by waiting and seeing if they would win the lottery or thinking - you know what we are doing ok and making a profit, let's not try to get bigger in case nobody comes... if nobody comes, we will have a plan to make them come. I will end again by repeating - If you don't try to be something different, you will never be anything different to what you have always been. You grow your fanbase by winning things and playing against the biggest clubs. Attendances are invariably a reaction to success and not a precursor to it, the 'changes' required to bring success are needed on the pitch and not in the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 I think we should look into expanding in a few seasons should we become reasonably established. I do get that we have a high demand at the moment but there are no guarantees that will continue if we don't improve results consistently in the future. If tickets are still hard to come by in two years, results are improving and we look like a more permanent top flight team then we should be increasing the capacity by nearly a third (which is what 10k would be). see my other response but 4 / 5 years under O'Neill? were we established? - Growing the club is a means towards becoming established, being unrelegatable (prob not a word) towards being an Everton or a Spurs and not a Soton / Swanse / Brom / Stoke etc as unless they take steps to grow, they will come unstuck and go down within the next 5 years though I very much doubt spurs or Everton will as they will always have enough revenue to ensure enough quality that even a really dodgy manager cannot get relegated! We need to aim now whilst we have the opportunity to stop being the Leicester we have been for 130 years and start being an Everton or Spurs - This in itself may take 10 years to achieve, but you don't want to wait 2 - 3 years before you start the journey and in that 2-3 years a lack of ambition means a lack of decent players wanting to come to us as anything other than a stepping stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 You grow your fanbase by winning things and playing against the biggest clubs. Attendances are invariably a reaction to success and not a precursor to it, the 'changes' required to bring success are needed on the pitch and not in the stands. exactly and success comes from quality and ambition and quality costs money. Quality also doesn't go to clubs without ambition. You want success on the pitch, you need to show the decent players out there that LCFC are more ambitious than our competition and be able to pay them that little bit more! Not than Man U or Chelsea but show more ambition than Stoke,Swansea,Soton, Brom etc and you will move up the 2nd division within the premier league. 10k seats shows ambition, makes us bigger than most of those clubs and generates that extra bit of revenue to enable us to spend tht little bit more on players - maybe the wages for 1 quality player that makes the dfference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Yes, we were established under O'Neill and winning trophies- that's why we upgraded our capacity by 10.5k. We spent millions on the playing side at the same time and fell apart completely. Now, with the TV deal coming in and no need to build a new ground from scratch, we can look to improve the capacity of the stadium. But not right now, our Premier League future is still precarious. The ambition comes from spending money on players and improving the club's on-field fortunes. Off-field issues will follow such as increased interest and upped crowd numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Arsenal 'lost' nearly a decade to the Emirates. Our income is TV money, some portion of that will have to be set aside to finance any expansion and any kudos gained is gained from being in the Premier League and winning trophies. There are no awards for attendances, finishing 12th infront of 32k or 50k makes no difference to kudos. The expansion can be funded from any source, not directly from income as it is exempt from fair play regulations. The owners could very well loan the money to the club at zero interest and not impact revenue that can be used on players. This is why it is a no brainer to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 23 June 2015 Share Posted 23 June 2015 Yes, we were established under O'Neill and winning trophies- that's why we upgraded our capacity by 10.5k. We spent millions on the playing side at the same time and fell apart completely. Now, with the TV deal coming in and no need to build a new ground from scratch, we can look to improve the capacity of the stadium. But not right now, our Premier League future is still precarious. The ambition comes from spending money on players and improving the club's on-field fortunes. Off-field issues will follow such as increased interest and upped crowd numbers. Nope - we were not established as we went down and this was not due to building a new stadium. We had no safety net and we were not in a good enough financial position to grow our club at the time and this prevented us from being ambitious enough to establish. We had a good go but failed to mitigate risk and we all know what happened. Now however, we have backing to expand, owners who have proven they are in it for the long term, we have parachute payments too but are still trying to build slowly without overspending as fairplay demands we do so. We will have mitigation in place I'm sure of that and this is why we need to look to new ways to grow... grow locally - expand the stadium grow globally - Amazing Thailand is a good start - the far East to follow The Thais will have a 3, 5 and 10 year plan and the plan aint to be what we've always been - of that I can assure you as they are entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs never stop when there is still room to grow sorry -edit - we need revenue into the club to improve playing quality and to succeed on the pitch. Money from outside the club can be used to expand the stadium - fair play allows this. Don't think that money spent on the stadium reduces the amount we spend on players. The money generated into the club by the increased capacity increases the revenue and the money we can spend on quality players. To lure these players we need to show ambition and have the money - 42k shows ambition and increases revenue giving us the chance to compete and........establish sorry :-) edit x 2 - if we hadn't have expanded - ie moved to the the new stadium, and just say we were where we are today, 10k fans wouldn't be getting tickets and attendances this season would have been 22k. If someone said we were gonna expand the 32k, many would have said - wait until we are established 1st - we may not fill it, we don't want empty seats and we would be operating on less revenue than we are today. Don't forget Filbert street's record attendance was 47k and at the time the population of Leicester was much lower. Build the seats and have a plan to fill them - simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 24 June 2015 Share Posted 24 June 2015 There are clubs in the lower leagues looking to expand and some with a bigger capacitythan one or two PL clubs They may not be big now but all clubs look to improve and if they cannot do it immediately on the playing side they look for other means of revenue to improve finances. City will still attract a decent crowd even if relegated. Did theynot hold the attendence record in the Championship while they were there as well as Div one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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