Expand the stadium? The poll

[Wymsey]

I think a key thing to do, if we're expanding, is to get the away fans (after the game) to leave asap and NOT like now where the away fans take up to 45 minutes after full-time to leave.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

If we do extend we will have to increase the away allocation so will they get L1 or N1?

 

Not sure that's true, isn't the rule "10% of capacity or 3000 fans, whichever is smaller" ? Correct me if I'm wrong that might be Football League ruling. 

[C-man]

Not sure that's true, isn't the rule "10% of capacity or 3000 fans, whichever is smaller" ? Correct me if I'm wrong that might be Football League ruling.

No that's the correct PL ruling. FL ruling is 10% or 2,000.

So we wouldn't have to increase the away end but if we want to sell out a 40k stadium we might have to on occasion.

[promised land]

but if we want to sell out a 40k stadium we might have to on occasion.

Why would we, the general foxes talk population seems to think we will be packed to the rafters every single game.

Hell, why not go for a 50K seater, build it and they will come..........apparently.

On a serious note I have read about fans not being able to buy tickets, then say they didn't have a membership of any kind, I'm not getting on my high horse and preaching but surely if you're any kind of fan, the cheapest membership to allow you to buy tickets would suffice. Just shows that if we had 10K extra seats they'd probably still find excuses to not go.

[Spudulike]

Did the club ever release membership figures ?? It would give a fair indication of pent up demand (possibly).

[GloverFox]

... Yes, get on with it ... Onwards and upwards .... He who dares Rodney .... He who dares ... M'on petite pois !!!

[C-man]

Why would we, the general foxes talk population seems to think we will be packed to the rafters every single game.

Hell, why not go for a 50K seater, build it and they will come..........apparently.

On a serious note I have read about fans not being able to buy tickets, then say they didn't have a membership of any kind, I'm not getting on my high horse and preaching but surely if you're any kind of fan, the cheapest membership to allow you to buy tickets would suffice. Just shows that if we had 10K extra seats they'd probably still find excuses to not go.

I agree.

How many games this season sold out before general sale? Less than 5 would be my guess. That's 14 games people COULD get to but choose not to.

Might be controversial but I don't buy the 'I wasn't able to go see my team' argument. They could, if they wanted to. Maybe not Manchester United or Arsenal (certain Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City went to GS), but I was under the impression that they were supposed Leicester City fans. It shouldn't matter who we are playing.

There are other, valid, arguments to building a new stadium (attracting new players, earning more money on the few occasions we do play United etc) but you can go to pretty much all games as a member and most even when you aren't so that argument doesn't really get much sympathy from me.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

I agree.

How many games this season sold out before general sale? Less than 5 would be my guess. That's 14 games people COULD get to but choose not to.

Might be controversial but I don't buy the 'I wasn't able to go see my team' argument. They could, if they wanted to. Maybe not Manchester United or Arsenal (certain Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City went to GS), but I was under the impression that they were supposed Leicester City fans. It shouldn't matter who we are playing.

There are other, valid, arguments to building a new stadium (attracting new players, earning more money on the few occasions we do play United etc) but you can go to pretty much all games as a member and most even when you aren't so that argument doesn't really get much sympathy from me.

Yeah let's take some seats out and reduce the capacity to 24000 because when we get relegated that's all our average attendance is anyway and that way it keeps the atmosphere. Yeah that sounds good . . . .

[Brown Nose]

I agree.

How many games this season sold out before general sale? Less than 5 would be my guess. That's 14 games people COULD get to but choose not to.

Might be controversial but I don't buy the 'I wasn't able to go see my team' argument. They could, if they wanted to. Maybe not Manchester United or Arsenal (certain Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City went to GS), but I was under the impression that they were supposed Leicester City fans. It shouldn't matter who we are playing.

There are other, valid, arguments to building a new stadium (attracting new players, earning more money on the few occasions we do play United etc) but you can go to pretty much all games as a member and most even when you aren't so that argument doesn't really get much sympathy from me.

 

Every hoop you make people jump through deters some people from attending.  That's just the way it is.  To you, they may not be committed fans, but they are people ready and willing to pay money to attend matches if we make it easy for them.  

 

If we make people join membership schemes in previous seasons in order to have a chance of a season ticket in the future, it will deter some people.  If we make people join membership schemes to have any chance of a ticket where they want one, it will deter people.  If we have very limited general sales weeks in advance of some games, it will deter some people.  Frankly, there will be people that wake up on game day and want to go to a match.  They can't at the moment.

 

The occasional and irregular fan is someone that is financially struggling, or works erratically, or lives some distance from Leicester, or simply only visits here on occasion.  They are also people with children that decide that today is a good day to bring little Johnny along, but they can't.  Or someone with a friend that supports the opposition or just wants to see what all this fuss is about live football or is just going out of random curiosity. Or a million other reasons.

 

Within all these groups, there are potential future fans that could evolve into committed, every match home and away types.  But even the randoms and occasional fans are good for the club.  It makes no business or footballing sense to choose to exclude anyone when we have the option to offer more seats.     

[CosbehFox]

Southampton confirmed yesterday that without 100% attendances they will not be extending their seasons.

Cynically I see that not wishing to spend money on something which makes no money as a 32k stadium or a 42k stadium.

[Bagworthblue]

I agree.

How many games this season sold out before general sale? Less than 5 would be my guess. That's 14 games people COULD get to but choose not to.

Might be controversial but I don't buy the 'I wasn't able to go see my team' argument. They could, if they wanted to. Maybe not Manchester United or Arsenal (certain Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City went to GS), but I was under the impression that they were supposed Leicester City fans. It shouldn't matter who we are playing.

There are other, valid, arguments to building a new stadium (attracting new players, earning more money on the few occasions we do play United etc) but you can go to pretty much all games as a member and most even when you aren't so that argument doesn't really get much sympathy from me.

I went to every single home game with my son in the 2 seasons leading up to us getting promoted, before that - I went on my own when I could but my missus works weekends. I was on the phone lines 3rd in the queue for a season ticket last season whilst working away in Leeds only for the lines to get closed on me. I managed to get us tickets to 2 games last season and one of those was because we secured my U8s team walk out as player escorts. There were other games we could have got to but would have meant I had to sit separate from my then 7 year old son, or were in parts of the ground that were just too expensive for us. He gets a bit worried if we can't get in the family stand. Yes I could have been quicker off the mark at times and i'm partly to blame for not having made more games but if I had succeeded, someone else would have failed

 

I tell you this though - I paced the kitchen week in week out having to listen to that idiot on the radio, I got annoyed, angry, shouted and ran around the house like a demented chinchilla when we scored and wanted to be in the ground more than anything.  Please don't assume it is easy to get tickets and that you aren't a fan if you fail. 

[Vlad the Fox]

People stopped trying to get tickets. Tickets did make general sale but finding seats together was hard. If we expand the stadium then hopefully everyone who wants to come will be able to come. As mentioned above if it becomes easier for people to get tickets more people will make the effort. I'm not bothered if there's 6k empty seats as there is potential for the club to grow and once built that potential is always there. I've had a season ticket for 25 years, many on here have had one longer than that, in that time I've seen us expand and grow as a club to the point we are at now. We have about reached as far as we can go with the situation as it is and as a result we are ready to move on to the next step, this has been twenty years in the making and now we're ready to progress. We should have built the stadium mid 90‘s, that O'Neill's reign was played out in front of 22000 was a great shame and a massively wasted opportunity with people missing out week after week, had the stadium been built things may have been different. We should expand and continue the development, the owners have ambitious plans and we shouldn't hold ourselves back like we did under O'Neill.

[C-man]

Yeah let's take some seats out and reduce the capacity to 24000 because when we get relegated that's all our average attendance is anyway and that way it keeps the atmosphere. Yeah that sounds good . . . .

You are missing my point. Where did I say anything about atmosphere in that post? You do realise running a bigger stadium costs more money? It's not just 'oh thanks Top and Vichai for the initial investment, we'll take it from here'.

As you mention it, atnosphere is important. To me, others and the TEAM. You only have to look how Villa and Sunderland struggle to motivate themselves at home with thousands of empty seats to know a full stadium makes a difference.

Oh and Bagworth, you don't have to explain yourself I am sure you and may others are 'real' fans.

Circumstances change but the Club can't concern themselves with each individual fan - they have to look at the collective and I'm sure the analytics they do are far more advanced than some hysterical people on Foxestalk screaming at them to make a huge investment.

I am not against a stadium extension - I just hope they make a calculated decision and explore the possibility that safe standing may be introduced in the next few years. It would be much cheaper and far more beneficial to more fans than hastily building an extra tier or two that will go vastly unused after an initial surge in interest.

Besides, they are putting in place stronger steelworks over the next 12-18 months. By the end of which time they will probably be aware of whether demand is still strong enough to make any sensible decision about expanding.

Sorry if thay makes me 'selfish' Bob Weasel Fox.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Did memberships sell out last season out of interest? 

[Vlad the Fox]

Unfortunately I think safe standing is a long long way off and I fear that some clubs may chose not to implement it if and when it does happen. However once we're packing out 42000 and leaving people outside it will be the next step to increasing capacity by another 6/7k .

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Sorry if thay makes me 'selfish' Bob Weasel Fox.

Do you know how many games I went to last season? Only 1 all season 0-0 v Hull City

I work 24 hour rotational shifts 7 days a week. Roughly 2/3 of home games I automatically can't get to the other 3rd I struggle to get child care covered and finally I struggle to get a ticket

I am a member and have been for the bulk of the last 30 years (apart from 3/4 seasons wherei was a season ticket holder

But I guess I don't try hard enough to get a ticket

[Steven]

Do you know how many games I went to last season? Only 1 all season 0-0 v Hull City

I work 24 hour rotational shifts 7 days a week. Roughly 2/3 of home games I automatically can't get to the other 3rd I struggle to get child care covered and finally I struggle to get a ticket

I am a member and have been for the bulk of the last 30 years (apart from 3/4 seasons wherei was a season ticket holder

But I guess I don't try hard enough to get a ticket

 

Plastic. 

[Bagworthblue]

You are missing my point. Where did I say anything about atmosphere in that post? You do realise running a bigger stadium costs more money? It's not just 'oh thanks Top and Vichai for the initial investment, we'll take it from here'.

As you mention it, atnosphere is important. To me, others and the TEAM. You only have to look how Villa and Sunderland struggle to motivate themselves at home with thousands of empty seats to know a full stadium makes a difference.

Oh and Bagworth, you don't have to explain yourself I am sure you and may others are 'real' fans.

Circumstances change but the Club can't concern themselves with each individual fan - they have to look at the collective and I'm sure the analytics they do are far more advanced than some hysterical people on Foxestalk screaming at them to make a huge investment.

I am not against a stadium extension - I just hope they make a calculated decision and explore the possibility that safe standing may be introduced in the next few years. It would be much cheaper and far more beneficial to more fans than hastily building an extra tier or two that will go vastly unused after an initial surge in interest.

Besides, they are putting in place stronger steelworks over the next 12-18 months. By the end of which time they will probably be aware of whether demand is still strong enough to make any sensible decision about expanding.

Sorry if thay makes me 'selfish' Bob Weasel Fox.

Villa and Sunderland picked up a whole lot when the managers changed and the fans had something to get excited about. It's about having a growth plan, not simply building a stadium and hoping it gets filled. The Thais are ambitious, they are looking to grow the club as a brand to grow their own brand. They need better playing staff to do this and to achieve this, they need to increase revenue to maximise their spend ability under fair play rules, they need to lure players to the KP who may currently choose Southampton or Sunderland ahead of us. A capacity increase will cost money but as an investment, the cost of which sits outside fair play criteria.

 

below is a bit rushed as I hit post by mistake half way through making me look like a numpty and is a guide only. We need to grow and not miss the boat - be an Apple not a Nokia!!!

 

 

Option 1

 

A bigger stadium = greater capacity potential = greater revenue potential alongside a growth plan to fill it, = improved potential to sign better players = increased chance of success = greater fan base = perception shift as to the size of the club globally = greater merchandise sales = more revenue =   the cycle continues......

 

RISKS                                                   probability /  impact (High / medium / low)                     Mitigating actions

 

stadium not filled                                  medium/  low ( still greater revenue than today)             creative pricing / incentives /

stadium cost                                         high /  low (investment / doesn't impact fair play)           as above

relegation                                             medium(reducing annually) / high                                  stadium cost separated and guarantored by owners,                                                                                                                                                                 bigger club perception lures better championship players to                                                                                                                                                       help make quick return

                                                                                                                                                  

                                                                                                                                                      

 

 

Option 2

 

Don't increase = stay the same as you have always been -

 

No growth plan = no additional revenue = failure to compete with other clubs = chances of relegation = high = failure to ever establish in premier league = continue to be yoyo team

 

 

RISKS                                                  probability / impact                                                                      mitigation

 

Stadium not filled                                low/low                                                                                          n/a

failure to grow                                     high / high  revenue remains static                                               none

relegation                                            high(increasing annually) / high revenue drops                            none

 

 

 

West Ham - bigger stadium

Anfield - increasing

Spurs - increasing

Chelsea - increasing

 

These are changing times. Times where some big teams will not make the cut anymore and can easily drift away into obscurity. Now is the time to be in the prem and to grow your club whiilst others fall behind and gradually become less competitive. Rich Owners don't have the weight they used to have now fairplay is on the scene so you must maximise your revenue to compete in anyway you can. If you do have rich owners, you can at least invest in the club infrastrucure to generate more revenue as the cost of improving the infrastructure is not taken into account under fair play rules. Move with the times or get left behind I'm afraid especially when the risks are not substantial.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Plastic.

Hah you've sussed me out

[CosbehFox]

The stadium changes at Anfield, White Hart Lane and Stamford Bridge have nothing to do with helping the average fan. It's all about the corporate fan. They want the fan and tourists what pays silly figures.

The extension here should be about getting the average fan through the gate.

Let's also clear a myth here very few clubs make money based on match day income.

[davieG]

You are missing my point. Where did I say anything about atmosphere in that post? You do realise running a bigger stadium costs more money? It's not just 'oh thanks Top and Vichai for the initial investment, we'll take it from here'.

As you mention it, atnosphere is important. To me, others and the TEAM. You only have to look how Villa and Sunderland struggle to motivate themselves at home with thousands of empty seats to know a full stadium makes a difference.

Oh and Bagworth, you don't have to explain yourself I am sure you and may others are 'real' fans.

Circumstances change but the Club can't concern themselves with each individual fan - they have to look at the collective and I'm sure the analytics they do are far more advanced than some hysterical people on Foxestalk screaming at them to make a huge investment.

I am not against a stadium extension - I just hope they make a calculated decision and explore the possibility that safe standing may be introduced in the next few years. It would be much cheaper and far more beneficial to more fans than hastily building an extra tier or two that will go vastly unused after an initial surge in interest.

Besides, they are putting in place stronger steelworks over the next 12-18 months. By the end of which time they will probably be aware of whether demand is still strong enough to make any sensible decision about expanding.

Sorry if thay makes me 'selfish' Bob Weasel Fox.

That's a really unfair comment and frankly unlike you. The simple fact is that this is being discussed because there have been reported comments that the owners plan to extend the stadium it's not some out of the blue fans calling for it.

 

Also if you've read the thread you'd see that plenty of people have given sound and justifiable reasons why it could be the way to go. 

[Bagworthblue]

The stadium changes at Anfield, White Hart Lane and Stamford Bridge have nothing to do with helping the average fan. It's all about the corporate fan. They want the fan and tourists what pays silly figures.

The extension here should be about getting the average fan through the gate.

Let's also clear a myth here very few clubs make money based on match day income.

i agree but it is win-win - more fans=more revenue=better players=greater success - it's a cycle promoting though not guaranteeing success. Wait and see strategy is reactive not positive and chances of long term success is reduced.

 

let's say I need to cross a busy motorway every day to get to the pub (promised land)

 

Plan A - If i run across a motorway without looking around, the chances are I'll get hit by a car.

 

(i.e create a 70k all seater blindly aiming to become the next Manchester united and hoping for the best!!)

 

Plan B If I look first, plan, see a decent opportunity and make a run for it, I have a greater chance of success as long as I take steps to minimise risk 

 

(create a 42k stadium as an investment which pays for itself within 5-15 years at a cost that is insignificant to your overall wealth )

 

Plan C If I stand on the hard shoulder, thinking about making a move but waiting for what I think is the perfect time, I'll either get lucky and walk across after a a few hours of waiting whilst all my mates make it and get to the pub first and bag the nicest ladies or I'll get hit by a truck I wasn't expecting to come along

 

(wait and see if attendances remain good and we stay in the prem for a few years)

 

I think the owners will follow plan B and I think we should. The benefits outweigh the risks and the biggest risk is we become a Preston when the opportunity is there to maybe even become an Everton over time.

[Gerard]

Every hoop you make people jump through deters some people from attending.  That's just the way it is.  To you, they may not be committed fans, but they are people ready and willing to pay money to attend matches if we make it easy for them.  

 

If we make people join membership schemes in previous seasons in order to have a chance of a season ticket in the future, it will deter some people.  If we make people join membership schemes to have any chance of a ticket where they want one, it will deter people.  If we have very limited general sales weeks in advance of some games, it will deter some people.  Frankly, there will be people that wake up on game day and want to go to a match.  They can't at the moment.

 

The occasional and irregular fan is someone that is financially struggling, or works erratically, or lives some distance from Leicester, or simply only visits here on occasion.  They are also people with children that decide that today is a good day to bring little Johnny along, but they can't.  Or someone with a friend that supports the opposition or just wants to see what all this fuss is about live football or is just going out of random curiosity. Or a million other reasons.

 

Within all these groups, there are potential future fans that could evolve into committed, every match home and away types.  But even the randoms and occasional fans are good for the club.  It makes no business or footballing sense to choose to exclude anyone when we have the option to offer more seats.     

 

The best post on this thread by a gazillion miles. I especially like the first sentence of "Every hoop you make people jump through deters some people from attending".

 

Our mid term ambition should be to try and become the 7th best team in the PL. The top six blow everyone else away on revenue but seven downwards is more closer. The biggest stadiums outside the top six are: 

 

West Ham 55,000

Newcastle 52,401

Sunderland 49,000

Aston Villa 42,875

Everton 40.563

 

If we settle with our unambitious attitude of keeping a 32,500 over the long term these clubs will pull even further away from us and we'll aim for 12th as our best feasible position. It will only be a matter of time before we're relegated again and back in the same tier as Forest, Derby, Middlesbrough, Birmingham, Leeds, etc.

 

We do have the fan base to attract 40,000+, we are one of the bigger cities in England and the only team in the county with a population that will be 1,000,000+ in the next decade or so.

 

Stand still and we WILL fall behind.

[Bagworthblue]

NameAdm.Population
Census © 2011
 

London   ENG 8,250,205

Birmingham   ENG 1,085,810

Glasgow   SCO 590,507

Liverpool   ENG 552,267

Bristol   ENG 535,907

Sheffield   ENG 518,090

Manchester   ENG 510,746

Leeds   ENG 474,632

Edinburgh   SCO  459,366

Leicester   ENG  443,760

 

Manchester looks wrong surely

[Bob Weasel Fox]

The best post on this thread by a gazillion miles. I especially like the first sentence of "Every hoop you make people jump through deters some people from attending".

Our mid term ambition should be to try and become the 7th best team in the PL. The top six blow everyone else away on revenue but seven downwards is more closer. The biggest stadiums outside the top six are:

West Ham 55,000

Newcastle 52,401

Sunderland 49,000

Aston Villa 42,875

Everton 40.563

If we settle with our unambitious attitude of keeping a 32,500 over the long term these clubs will pull even further away from us and we'll aim for 12th as our best feasible position. It will only be a matter of time before we're relegated again and back in the same tier as Forest, Derby, Middlesbrough, Birmingham, Leeds, etc.

We do have the fan base to attract 40,000+, we are one of the bigger cities in England and the only team in the county with a population that will be 1,000,000+ in the next decade or so.

Stand still and we WILL fall behind.

Good post