CosbehFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Can you remember back as far as last season? The one where we spent 5 months at the bottom of the table, who's to say O'neill couldn't have masterminded a turnaround? If we had sacked Pearson, people would forever more label him a premiership failure but because he was given nine more games, he is now thought of as an escape artist. Football is a game of fine margins and bloody luck, we know from the rest of O'neills record he is not a shit manager. Sunderland go through a manager a season, they are quite quick to pull the trigger but I don't think it should tarnish his record forever. Different situations. Sunderland had been in the division for four season when he joined. This included finishing 10th under Bruce.We were a newly promoted club hence the expectation was to be at some point in the zone. And how many transfer windows did he have to galvanise a squad that had got the last manager sacked? He ain't Superman!He had a squad which had finished 10th and 14th in previous seasons. All he did was put Sunderland back to the status they were.
Strokes Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Different situations. Sunderland had been in the division for four season when he joined. This included finishing 10th under Bruce. We were a newly promoted club hence the expectation was to be at some point in the zone. It's not really that different, there is usually about 7-8 points between finishing 17th and tenth, two wins and a draw.
Raw Dykes Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Some people need to have Pearson surgically removed from their arses and move on.its not as though there is an abundance of managers out there. Exactly! That's what we're worried about!
GaelicFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Complete Ad hominem. I think most of their assessment is pretty fair - it's hard to argue that he overspent on a lot of average players and left them in a poor state. Not a problem at City , managers don't buy players anymore
foxes_rule1978 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 I suggest you look up Icelands team where the majority of the players play in the Danish top flight. They have just four players who play in the big four European leagues. A comparable number to Ireland. They've managed to beat Netherlands. Northern Ireland have a lesser group I admit, they also have less players to pick from. They also managed to beat teams of a comparable quality to Scotland which Ireland failed to do. Sunderland went in the drop zone during his time there. I know the team, those individuals make a big different , Guess what Ireland don't have anyone near their quality...
Bagworthblue Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 I suggest you look up Icelands team where the majority of the players play in the Danish top flight. They have just four players who play in the big four European leagues. A comparable number to Ireland. They've managed to beat Netherlands. Northern Ireland have a lesser group I admit, they also have less players to pick from. They also managed to beat teams of a comparable quality to Scotland which Ireland failed to do. Sunderland went in the drop zone during his time there. copy and paste from my earlier post - you are doing well at just sorting out the negatives and avoiding the positives so I've done the reverse for you to make a balanced judgement He did brilliant at Leicester - right He did great at Celtic and decided to take a break as his wife was ill He did better than anyone much else has done in years at Villa and decided to leave after 4 years following a dispute with Lerner the 4 years before the average finish was 12th but that was because of one good season a few years before in 6th, the other seasons were circa 14th the 5 years since the average has been 14th and they've had decent players too - i.e Benteke He took Sunderland to their best finish in the Prem in his first season, was strugling in his 2nd season and got sacked before he had a chance to turn it around He has only ever once been sacked in a long career - unusual eh Ireland - he's done ok but not great - he works better with close contact with players on a regular basis - that's how he works - he will always be a better club manager than national team manager We have a squad full of players to match the type of football he plays He is a similar manager to Pearson in that he looks after his players, protects them and builds squads with great team spirit his appointment is likely to keep both fans, players and staff upbeat allowing us to go into the season on a high rather than a low after the Pearson sacking. he carries no baggage these days and hence a good chance he will keep the existing backroom staff, or even agree to as part of his contract meaning even less disruption. and finally - listen to players he has managed - they talk about how he would be able to get them to walk through fire if he asked. They can't explain what it is about him, just that he makes you feel like you are the best and makes you want to do everything you can to succeed. And I've had that from the horses mouth of one ex city player.
CosbehFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 It's not really that different, there is usually about 7-8 points between finishing 17th and tenth, two wins and a draw. Yet folk keep using the line he took Sunderland to their second highest PL finish yet it's much of a muchness.
Strokes Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Yet folk keep using the line he took Sunderland to their second highest PL finish yet it's much of a muchness.are you arguing with me or other people? I'm confused
CosbehFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 copy and paste from my earlier post - you are doing well at just sorting out the negatives and avoiding the positives so I've done the reverse for you to make a balanced judgement He did brilliant at Leicester - right He did great at Celtic and decided to take a break as his wife was ill He did better than anyone much else has done in years at Villa and decided to leave after 4 years following a dispute with Lerner the 4 years before the average finish was 12th but that was because of one good season a few years before in 6th, the other seasons were circa 14th the 5 years since the average has been 14th and they've had decent players too - i.e Benteke He took Sunderland to their best finish in the Prem in his first season, was strugling in his 2nd season and got sacked before he had a chance to turn it around He has only ever once been sacked in a long career - unusual eh Ireland - he's done ok but not great - he works better with close contact with players on a regular basis - that's how he works - he will always be a better club manager than national team manager We have a squad full of players to match the type of football he plays He is a similar manager to Pearson in that he looks after his players, protects them and builds squads with great team spirit his appointment is likely to keep both fans, players and staff upbeat allowing us to go into the season on a high rather than a low after the Pearson sacking. he carries no baggage these days and hence a good chance he will keep the existing backroom staff, or even agree to as part of his contract meaning even less disruption. and finally - listen to players he has managed - they talk about how he would be able to get them to walk through fire if he asked. They can't explain what it is about him, just that he makes you feel like you are the best and makes you want to do everything you can to succeed. And I've had that from the horses mouth of one ex city player. The majority of those positivess are from five years ago plus. Robertson left him then and its reflected in his performance.
Sampson Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 What is this he took Sunderland to their best Prem finish all about? They finished about 6th or 7th for 2 or 3 seasons when they had a strike force of Phillips and Quinn Are people just making up stats?
foxes_rule1978 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 copy and paste from my earlier post - you are doing well at just sorting out the negatives and avoiding the positives so I've done the reverse for you to make a balanced judgement He did brilliant at Leicester - right He did great at Celtic and decided to take a break as his wife was ill He did better than anyone much else has done in years at Villa and decided to leave after 4 years following a dispute with Lerner the 4 years before the average finish was 12th but that was because of one good season a few years before in 6th, the other seasons were circa 14th the 5 years since the average has been 14th and they've had decent players too - i.e Benteke He took Sunderland to their best finish in the Prem in his first season, was strugling in his 2nd season and got sacked before he had a chance to turn it around He has only ever once been sacked in a long career - unusual eh Ireland - he's done ok but not great - he works better with close contact with players on a regular basis - that's how he works - he will always be a better club manager than national team manager We have a squad full of players to match the type of football he plays He is a similar manager to Pearson in that he looks after his players, protects them and builds squads with great team spirit his appointment is likely to keep both fans, players and staff upbeat allowing us to go into the season on a high rather than a low after the Pearson sacking. he carries no baggage these days and hence a good chance he will keep the existing backroom staff, or even agree to as part of his contract meaning even less disruption. and finally - listen to players he has managed - they talk about how he would be able to get them to walk through fire if he asked. They can't explain what it is about him, just that he makes you feel like you are the best and makes you want to do everything you can to succeed. And I've had that from the horses mouth of one ex city player.This this this
foxes_rule1978 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 What is this he took Sunderland to their best Prem finish all about? They finished about 6th or 7th for 2 or 3 seasons when they had a strike force of Phillips and Quinn Are people just making up stats? He's being judged on modern day so since they got promoted 8 seasons ago
Strokes Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Anyone depicting his record at Ireland, would you just look at the pool of players available to him. Honestly, I think he is over achieving.
Nickfosse Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 copy and paste from my earlier post - you are doing well at just sorting out the negatives and avoiding the positives so I've done the reverse for you to make a balanced judgement He did brilliant at Leicester - right He did great at Celtic and decided to take a break as his wife was ill He did better than anyone much else has done in years at Villa and decided to leave after 4 years following a dispute with Lerner the 4 years before the average finish was 12th but that was because of one good season a few years before in 6th, the other seasons were circa 14th the 5 years since the average has been 14th and they've had decent players too - i.e Benteke He took Sunderland to their best finish in the Prem in his first season, was strugling in his 2nd season and got sacked before he had a chance to turn it around He has only ever once been sacked in a long career - unusual eh Ireland - he's done ok but not great - he works better with close contact with players on a regular basis - that's how he works - he will always be a better club manager than national team manager We have a squad full of players to match the type of football he plays He is a similar manager to Pearson in that he looks after his players, protects them and builds squads with great team spirit his appointment is likely to keep both fans, players and staff upbeat allowing us to go into the season on a high rather than a low after the Pearson sacking. he carries no baggage these days and hence a good chance he will keep the existing backroom staff, or even agree to as part of his contract meaning even less disruption. and finally - listen to players he has managed - they talk about how he would be able to get them to walk through fire if he asked. They can't explain what it is about him, just that he makes you feel like you are the best and makes you want to do everything you can to succeed. And I've had that from the horses mouth of one ex city player. Superb post and just the way I see it too. I would just add one comment to that already alluded to and that is that I do not consider international management to be of any value when assessing the merits of a club manager. Peter Taylor was a very successful England under 21 manager.......
foxes_rule1978 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Anyone depicting his record at Ireland, would you just look at the pool of players available to him. Honestly, I think he is over achieving.They are awful ... that is fact... worst set he could be left with
ARM1968 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 There is no doubt that O'Neill had the magic touch. It seems to have tarnished a bit in the last five years but there is no saying that coming back here again wouldn't rejuvenate him. It could easily. And as for never go back. Mourinho seems to be doing ok with Chelsea. It could work and my god it'd be better than Preki or Dyche.
GaelicFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 They are awful ... that is fact... worst set he could be left with Being a paddy I can honestly say you would trade the lot of them in for a B reg ford escort with 160k on the clock There is no doubt that O'Neill had the magic touch. It seems to have tarnished a bit in the last five years but there is no saying that coming back here again wouldn't rejuvenate him. It could easily. And as for never go back. Mourinho seems to be doing ok with Chelsea. It could work and my god it'd be better than Preki or Dyche. He would be near home as well
ARM1968 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Indeed and surrounded by memories of happier times. Could be just what he needs and just what we need. Bloody hell it'd be a ride, but I'm ready to jump on - I think.
itsaknockeart Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 There's a few reasons to believe that even if the FAI are approached and agree to let MON talk to Leicester, he won't take the job: 1) in numerous interviews O'Neill said a major regret of his career was breaking his contract at Norwich, saying it was the only contract he has ever broken. For example: "He hinted he was sacked by Randy Lerner but, with fellow American Short, he will at least be given the time to offload Steve Bruce's deadwood before starting over again. The former Celtic chief said: "It is interesting because, to my discredit, I once broke a contract. But I did not break a contract at Villa. I broke a contract at Norwich after just six months but not at Villa." 2) he turned down a return to Leicester in 2010 and 2011, even though he was a free agent 3) he turned Notts Forest down last season
Bagworthblue Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 The majority of those positivess are from five years ago plus. Robertson left him then and its reflected in his performance. well all the interviews I've read and the player I've spoken to, talk about him, his magic, his ability to motivate and not a mention of Robertson. His successful season at Sunderland was 3 years ago, the season where he struggled was 2 years ago. it appears you base your position on him being prematurely sacked at Sunderland, your guess that he relied on Robertson, and guess that he hasn't had success for 5 years without taking the time to look it up. Like most against, you have formed a perception over time and written someone off for insufficient reason. of course that's only my opinion but there are more facts backing up the pro O'Neill case than the 'anti' one final point - in all of his clubs his very worst spells resulted in a 32% win rate which at worst would see us avoid relegation. Overall, his 51% win rate would put us top half of the prem +
ARM1968 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Timing is everything. And I think the time is right. Hope so.
Mark_w Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 There's a few reasons to believe that even if the FAI are approached and agree to let MON talk to Leicester, he won't take the job:...2) he turned down a return to Leicester in 2010 and 2011, even though he was a free agent 3) he turned Notts Forest down last season They're not really relevant, he turned us and them down because he knew he could do better, I'm not sure he could do better than us now.
st albans fox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 I wonder who the bookies favourite will be on Monday?
Salieri Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 The only downside about this appointment for me is getting irritated every time he is called O'Neil, which seems to happen, a lot.
itsaknockeart Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 They're not really relevant, he turned us and them down because he knew he could do better, I'm not sure he could do better than us now. Maybe but I don't think he's ever said that. Equally plausible that he didn't want to tarnish his reputation/legacy here. The contract issue may be more relevant I reckon. He's made some strong self-critical statements about walking out at Norwich, which is surprising given the success he enjoyed by doing so.
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