itsaknockeart Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Never heard of Dan McDonnell before but he's been talking sense on the MON story all day: http://www.newstalk.com/Should-we-brace-ourselves-for-more-Martin-ONeill-to-Leicester-speculation
smudger63 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Yes, it is. Martin O'Neill WAS a very good manager, better than any Sunderland have had in my lifetime. If we'd had him when you had him how pleased we'd all have been. But time moves on and managers' abilities wane. You should know this as one of your former managers is the classic example of someone whose star blazed briefly then burnt out, and clubs were still giving him jobs on the basis of what he'd once been years later. Coincidentally, it was at Villa that he, Brian Little, lost that special something too. I suppose it depends on what your expectations are. After he left us for Celtic, he made them the dominant force in Scotland (not too difficult in Scotland you might say) he also got them to a uefa cup final, which was way past what was expected of them. At Villa he turned them around and finished in the top 6 three seasons running, i think it was. He only left there because the chairman was selling his best players. At Sunderland he seems to be seen as a flop, but what were the expectations? He kept Sunderland up, and done all that was expected of him, i would have thought. Even in the season that he was sacked, when Sunderland were struggling, there is still a chance, that had he been given more time he may have turned things around. Certainly i don`t see that Villa or Sunderland have moved forward since O`Neil left them, in fact they seem to have gone backwards! For Leicester at the moment, i would think that our expectations are that we can finish as high as possible, but avoid relegation at all costs, and i think that O`Neil is capable of doing that with us.
CosbehFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Well still O'Neill never has been relegated and has had a more fruitful 15 years than what we have. He has achieved at every club he has managed... He took Sunderland down into the relegation zone. A club he cared as he supported them as a boy. I don't see where our position over the past 15 years really comes into that. I would rather judge a prospective manager on his last five years. It's clear O'Neill has performed poorly since Robertson retired like Clough and Taylor where Cloughie was never quite the same without a communicator between the players and management. His transfer record has always been hit and miss but ir affected Villa (where he did a decent job) and Sunderland badly still having after effects now. They have done well, unfortunately they don't have the quality... you can put Mourinho in and I couldn't see them doing much better to be honest Explain how the likes of Iceland and Northern Ireland are outperforming them with lesser players.
shen Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 He took Sunderland down into the relegation zone. A club he cared as he supported them as a boy. I don't see where our position over the past 15 years really comes into that. I would rather judge a prospective manager on his last five years. It's clear O'Neill has performed poorly since Robertson retired like Clough and Taylor where Cloughie was never quite the same without a communicator between the players and management. His transfer record has always been hit and miss but ir affected Villa (where he did a decent job) and Sunderland badly still having after effects now. Explain how the likes of Iceland and Northern Ireland are outperforming them with lesser players. Didn't he take them to their highest ever finish in the Prem League? He was let go when they were above the relegation zone too.
foxes_rule1978 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 He took Sunderland down into the relegation zone. A club he cared as he supported them as a boy. I don't see where our position over the past 15 years really comes into that. I would rather judge a prospective manager on his last five years. It's clear O'Neill has performed poorly since Robertson retired like Clough and Taylor where Cloughie was never quite the same without a communicator between the players and management. His transfer record has always been hit and miss but ir affected Villa (where he did a decent job) and Sunderland badly still having after effects now. Explain how the likes of Iceland and Northern Ireland are outperforming them with lesser players. Iceland are doing great , because they have good players overall ... Northern Ireland aren't stuck in as tough group... But then you are saying Micheal O'Neill is better? sometimes international football isn't a good judge of a manager.And Sunderland weren't in the relegation zone they were one point above... he had a bad couple of months, just wasn't given the chance to turn it around. Sunderland are trigger happy and rarely finish a season with one manager haven't for a while
AjcW Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Can we discount the Sunderland fan now he's staked his admiration for Di Canio?!?!
CosbehFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Didn't he take them to their highest ever finish in the Prem League? He was let go when they were above the relegation zone too. I admit yes he did. He had the opportunity to galvanise a squad halfway through a season. His only full season saw Sunderland drop into the relegation during it. He was let go before they went back in it.
GaelicFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Anyone think MON could take us to the next level? i.e top 10 in the prem, getting into Europe, winning a cup or two he has done it once before can he do it again? Here is hoping! Next level ??? Stop listening to the hype and focus on facts 40pts and survival that's our aim ...yes feel free to dream , but aims have to be realistic Build from there Let's not copy the QPR model
Sampson Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 I suppose it depends on what your expectations are. After he left us for Celtic, he made them the dominant force in Scotland (not too difficult in Scotland you might say) he also got them to a uefa cup final, which was way past what was expected of them. At Villa he turned them around and finished in the top 6 three seasons running, i think it was. He only left there because the chairman was selling his best players. At Sunderland he seems to be seen as a flop, but what were the expectations? He kept Sunderland up, and done all that was expected of him, i would have thought. Even in the season that he was sacked, when Sunderland were struggling, there is still a chance, that had he been given more time he may have turned things around. Certainly i don`t see that Villa or Sunderland have moved forward since O`Neil left them, in fact they seem to have gone backwards! For Leicester at the moment, i would think that our expectations are that we can finish as high as possible, but avoid relegation at all costs, and i think that O`Neil is capable of doing that with us. The way O'Neill left Villa was a large part of why they went backwards though. They spent a lot under him, a lot of it on very average players in an attempt to get into the CL. Both then and Spurs did at the time, Spurs managed it and Villa didn't. So Villa had to cut costs by selling players like Milner and MON walked out before the start of the season because of that. I don't think you can look at how Villa have fallen since MON left as a positive to his time there, if any Hong it was a negative of his poor spending, short-termism and the way he just got up and left when he had to cut that spending because they couldn't make the CL. I know quite a few Villa fans and none of them rate him - they all consider him to have overspent on average players which is a large reason for the mess they're in atm.
GaelicFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Iceland are doing great , because they have good players overall ... Northern Ireland aren't stuck in as tough group... But then you are saying Micheal O'Neill is better? sometimes international football isn't a good judge of a manager. And Sunderland weren't in the relegation zone they were one point above... he had a bad couple of months, just wasn't given the chance to turn it around. Sunderland are trigger happy and rarely finish a season with one manager haven't for a while You cannot use any North East club as a guide to a managers ability Crazy clubs !!!
foxes_rule1978 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 The way O'Neill left Villa was a large part of why they went backwards though. They spent a lot under him, a lot of it on very average players in an attempt to get into the CL. Both then and Spurs did at the time, Spurs managed it and Villa didn't. So Villa had to cut costs by selling players like Milner and MON walked out before the start of the season because of that. I don't think you can look at how Villa have fallen since MON left as a positive to his time there, if any Hong it was a negative of his poor spending, short-termism and the way he just got up and left when he had to cut that spending because they couldn't make the CL. I know quite a few Villa fans and none of them rate him - they all consider him to have overspent on average players which is a large reason for the mess they're in atm. Clough spent money if given it, every manager does... he did great and had his best players sold underneath him
Rincewind Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 confirmed. https://www.facebook.com/sean.kirk.50767?fref=nf
GaelicFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 The way O'Neill left Villa was a large part of why they went backwards though. They spent a lot under him, a lot of it on very average players in an attempt to get into the CL. Both then and Spurs did at the time, Spurs managed it and Villa didn't. So Villa had to cut costs by selling players like Milner and MON walked out before the start of the season because of that. I don't think you can look at how Villa have fallen since MON left as a positive to his time there, if any Hong it was a negative of his poor spending, short-termism and the way he just got up and left when he had to cut that spending because they couldn't make the CL. I know quite a few Villa fans and none of them rate him - they all consider him to have overspent on average players which is a large reason for the mess they're in atm. How many mangers since Taylor left have any villa manager rated ??? Villa fans are deluded supporters of a medium size Midlands club And they are owned by a yank and that hasn't worked anywhere apart from man Utd
CosbehFox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Iceland are doing great , because they have good players overall ... Northern Ireland aren't stuck in as tough group... But then you are saying Micheal O'Neill is better? sometimes international football isn't a good judge of a manager. And Sunderland weren't in the relegation zone they were one point above... he has a bad couple of months, just wasn't given the chance to turn it around. Sunderland are trigger happy and rarely finish a season with one manager haven't for a while I suggest you look up Icelands team where the majority of the players play in the Danish top flight. They have just four players who play in the big four European leagues. A comparable number to Ireland. They've managed to beat Netherlands. Northern Ireland have a lesser group I admit, they also have less players to pick from. They also managed to beat teams of a comparable quality to Scotland which Ireland failed to do. Sunderland went in the drop zone during his time there.
Sampson Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 How many mangers since Taylor left have any villa manager rated ??? Villa fans are deluded supporters of a medium size Midlands club And they are owned by a yank and that hasn't worked anywhere apart from man Utd Complete Ad hominem. I think most of their assessment is pretty fair - it's hard to argue that he overspent on a lot of average players and left them in a poor state.
smudger63 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 I'd like to be more excited than I actually am about this. Just can't help but feel that he's not the whirlwind he once was. I was in my early teens in the O'Neill era and those are still my greatest City memories (closely followed by NP parts 1 and 2) and I'd be gutted if he was a dud second time round. He's been gash for Eire which makes me nervous. I can certainly understand those feelings, but what you have to remember, is that what he achieved in his first stint at Leicester will be in the record books forever, and can never be taken away. If he came back and it didn`t work out, it wouldn`t change what he done before, it would simply be that it didn`t work out second time around. The same could have been said of Pearson when he came back, he had done very well in his first spell with us, but there was no guarantee that it would work out the second time, but it did, all be it that it was a rocky road at times. Can you see the likes of Vardy playing for a Klopp, or Hiddink? They would look at him and think, he runs around alot but technically he`s not good enough, but Vardy is the type of player that O`Neil really likes and will get the best out of. One of Pearsons biggest strengths is that he protects his players and forges a fantastic team spirit, and team ethic, which has always been one of O`Neils strengths too. As for him being Gash for Eire, well that might have something to do with him having Gash players to choose from!
foxes_rule1978 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Complete Ad hominem. I think most of their assessment is pretty fair - it's hard to argue that he overspent on a lot of average players and left them in a poor state. Average being three top six finishes right?
Sampson Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Clough spent money if given it, every manager does... he did great and had his best players sold underneath him No one's saying he didn't spend money - they're saying he spent it on a lot of mediocre players. I don't blame Sven for spending money either but I blame him for wasting it on mediocrities.
smudger63 Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 He took Sunderland down into the relegation zone. A club he cared as he supported them as a boy. I don't see where our position over the past 15 years really comes into that. I would rather judge a prospective manager on his last five years. It's clear O'Neill has performed poorly since Robertson retired like Clough and Taylor where Cloughie was never quite the same without a communicator between the players and management. His transfer record has always been hit and miss but ir affected Villa (where he did a decent job) and Sunderland badly still having after effects now. Explain how the likes of Iceland and Northern Ireland are outperforming them with lesser players. Depends on the strength of the other countries in their group. (he says without actually looking how strong they are )
Strokes Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 He took Sunderland down into the relegation zone. A club he cared as he supported them as a boy. I don't see where our position over the past 15 years really comes into that. I would rather judge a prospective manager on his last five years. It's clear O'Neill has performed poorly since Robertson retired like Clough and Taylor where Cloughie was never quite the same without a communicator between the players and management. His transfer record has always been hit and miss but ir affected Villa (where he did a decent job) and Sunderland badly still having after effects now. Explain how the likes of Iceland and Northern Ireland are outperforming them with lesser players. Can you remember back as far as last season? The one where we spent 5 months at the bottom of the table, who's to say O'neill couldn't have masterminded a turnaround? If we had sacked Pearson, people would forever more label him a premiership failure but because he was given nine more games, he is now thought of as an escape artist.Football is a game of fine margins and bloody luck, we know from the rest of O'neills record he is not a shit manager. Sunderland go through a manager a season, they are quite quick to pull the trigger but I don't think it should tarnish his record forever.
lgfualol Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 confirmed. https://www.facebook.com/sean.kirk.50767?fref=nf Thanks
Sampson Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 Average being three top six finishes right? For the money they spent yes.
l444ry Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 I admit yes he did. He had the opportunity to galvanise a squad halfway through a season. His only full season saw Sunderland drop into the relegation during it. He was let go before they went back in it. And how many transfer windows did he have to galvanise a squad that had got the last manager sacked? He ain't Superman!
jonthefox Posted 10 July 2015 Posted 10 July 2015 confirmed. https://www.facebook.com/sean.kirk.50767?fref=nf Don't get it.
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