Russia 'begins air strikes' on Syria

[Guest MattP]

Think we all knew this was going to happen but a big twist as it appears they have gone in on the city of Homs, a place where the regime is fighting different rebel groups to ISIS.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34399164

 

It was an extremely unpopular position on here when me and a couple of others said a few years back we should back up Assad in order to defeat a bigger evil, it looks like it could actually happen now.

 

 

[Wymsey]

I just wonder why Russia are only starting help more now.

[Benji]

Excellent. Although there already seems to be US dick swinging rhetoric. I'm sure any request to stay out of the way while they're in operation will be taken almost as a challenge by the Americans. It's either US-led with the US being the heroes and saviours of the world or nothing.

Just get on with it FFS.

[Guest MattP]

Excellent. Although there already seems to be US dick swinging rhetoric. I'm sure any request to stay out of the way while they're in operation will be taken almost as a challenge by the Americans. It's either US-led with the US being the heroes and saviours of the world or nothing.

Just get on with it FFS.

 

Russia can do what they want for the time being, Obama can't and won't do anything, they know that, he's the most yellow president they have had.

 

Air strikes were at the request of the Syrian government as well so no questions on the legality.

[Guest Sharpe's Fox]

Don't see what dropping bombs in Homs is going to do. You'll kill a few IS fighters, a few civilians and a few bog standard anti-Assad rebels but nothing is going to change.

[ramboacdc]

I just wonder why Russia are only starting help more now.

have they found a gas pipeline? 

[Dr The Singh]

have they found a gas pipeline? 

Ken's backside????

[leicsmac]

Russia can do what they want for the time being, Obama can't and won't do anything, they know that, he's the most yellow president they have had.

 

Air strikes were at the request of the Syrian government as well so no questions on the legality.

 

And why would he do anything? The US doesn't want to mess about in the Middle East that much again given how unpopular it is at home so if the Russians want to give it a crack (even if it means Assad staying in power for a spell) then I'm pretty sure they'd welcome it (covertly, anyway).

 

And as an addenum, given the utter disaster US foreign policy and interventionism has been over the last couple of decades, perhaps a 'yellow' President wasn't such a bad idea.

[ScouseFox]

Obama can't and won't do anything, they know that, he's the most yellow president they have had.

there's racism an then there's this, unbelievable

[Guest MattP]

And why would he do anything? The US doesn't want to mess about in the Middle East that much again given how unpopular it is at home so if the Russians want to give it a crack (even if it means Assad staying in power for a spell) then I'm pretty sure they'd welcome it (covertly, anyway).

 

And as an addenum, given the utter disaster US foreign policy and interventionism has been over the last couple of decades, perhaps a 'yellow' President wasn't such a bad idea.

 

Wasn't meant to be a comment on whether he is a good, bad or right or wrong President.

 

Just saying Putin knows he can pretty much do what he wants without any fear of serious reprisals while Obama runs the show in America, Bush might have been a horrifiic nutter whose policy was a total disaster but he was taken very seriously as previously strong and stable leaders were ending up on the end of nooses if they pissed him off.

 

The same sort of "respect" people have for the local nutcase in the pub who has done time for GBH etc

[ScouseFox]

also the city of homs obviously Russia are making a city of homs there #1 target

[Rob1742]

Looking at the Russians and the Americans I personally agree more with the Russians.

The Americans (with our help) invaded and destabilised countries over there, often illegally. Iraq being a prime example.

We have helped create ISIS, and have helped destabilise Syria.

The area was much more stable before we interfered and it was better when the dictators like Saddam Hussein kept control, as they dealt with the issues as soon as people stepped out of line.

They are a different breed, they need controlling by dictators and we should have left them to it.

It was like getting involved in an argument in the park in New Parks. You are better off leaving them to it and not get involved.

I think if Assad was to keep control the area would be much more stable, like it was before we stepped out of line.

We are targeting ISIS, but supporting other rebels. How the hell that will ever work I will never know?

Well done Blair and Bush for creating all the instability that we are now suffering. They should have kept off the park in New Parks and let those over there deal with it their own way.

[leicsmac]

Wasn't meant to be a comment on whether he is a good, bad or right or wrong President.

 

Just saying Putin knows he can pretty much do what he wants without any fear of serious reprisals while Obama runs the show in America, Bush might have been a horrifiic nutter whose policy was a total disaster but he was taken very seriously as previously strong and stable leaders were ending up on the end of nooses if they pissed him off.

 

The same sort of "respect" people have for the local nutcase in the pub who has done time for GBH etc

 

Tinpot dictators like Saddam might have taken Bush seriously as they knew he was loony enough to come after them and had the power to get it done...I'm not sure Putin took him seriously, because he could fight back in a serious manner. 

 

(Loving the GBH analogy there , it fits very well.)

 

In any case, the big boys know they have to be at least reasonably polite to each other considering they all have the power to bring about the End of Days if the mood took them to. I think Putin has to look strong at home so he's flexing his muscles, but as long as he doesn't step too far over the line the US won't try to stop him, regardless of who is in the Oval Office.

[Gold Coast Fox]

The best thing for Russian - American relations would be a common enemy, which ISIS Appear to be .

Unfortunately they disagree on who to back.  

[Claridge]

I just wonder why Russia are only starting help more now.

Because they know Obama is incapable of any action. They should know, as he has let Putin do pretty much what he wanted over the last few years

[leicsmac]

Because they know Obama is incapable of any action. They should know, as he has let Putin do pretty much what he wanted over the last few years

 

As I have said further up the page here, I didn't see Bush standing up to Putin either - he preferred his wars regional, easily winnable and with plenty of profit for his friends. 

 

Honestly don't get the diatrabe when any other US leader would have done the same as Obama did here (with a possible dash of rhetoric in public just for show), with the possible exception of the fundie nutjobs who would have got everyone nuked instead. 

[Guest MattP]

 

Tinpot dictators like Saddam might have taken Bush seriously as they knew he was loony enough to come after them and had the power to get it done...I'm not sure Putin took him seriously, because he could fight back in a serious manner. 

 

As I have said further up the page here, I didn't see Bush standing up to Putin either - he preferred his wars regional, easily winnable and with plenty of profit for his friends. 

 

Honestly don't get the diatrabe when any other US leader would have done the same as Obama did here (with a possible dash of rhetoric in public just for show), with the possible exception of the fundie nutjobs who would have got everyone nuked instead.

 

Easy to say that now but I remember many commentators saying the US would struggle to topple the Taleban let alone bring down Saddam, it was a huge surprise to see all these beach bums from Sacramento wheeling into Baghdad in the short space of time that they did.

 

I don't have access to google at the minute but I seem to remember Bush being fairly robust towards Putin after the invasion of South Ossetia, but I can't remember that well, there were certainly more serious sanctions implemented than we did after he annexed Crimea, sure he even considered a military response and that brought the ceasfire created by Sarzoky and Mrkel forward.

 

I suppose Obama does look butch next to Jimmy Carter.   

[leicsmac]

Easy to say that now but I remember many commentators saying the US would struggle to topple the Taleban let alone bring down Saddam, it was a huge surprise to see all these beach bums from Sacramento wheeling into Baghdad in the short space of time that they did.

 

I don't have access to google at the minute but I seem to remember Bush being fairly robust towards Putin after the invasion of South Ossetia, but I can't remember that well, there were certainly more serious sanctions implemented than we did after he annexed Crimea, sure he even considered a military response and that brought the ceasfire created by Sarzoky and Mrkel forward.

 

I suppose Obama does look butch next to Jimmy Carter. 

 

Yeah, never got that angle. I mean, the US Army (for all its faults and idiocy) is pretty overarching when matched against any other nonguerilla conventional army. They had a massive advantage in tech and air power, it was always going to be a curbstomp. It's just the aftermath that has defeated them.

 

You could be right regarding the whole South Ossetia thing, but then post-Crimea the US is teaming up with the Saudis to attempt to crash the price of oil and by doing so wreck the Russian economy in a pretty overt piece of economic warfare (while of course denying the whole thing), so horses for courses.

 

Perhaps I've got too many splinters up my arse from sitting on the fence too many times, but as I've said in the politics thread the "football team" ethos of politics in the UK and US annoys the hell out of me as when it comes to foreign policy I see precious little difference between the primary players in attitudes towards the other established powers (of course the smaller countries are a different matter) beyond rhetoric, and also - as I have said repeatedly - the whole nationalist realpolitik bollocks that they all engage in irritates the fvck out of me anyway.

[Crinklyfox]

This is not going to solve anything. Rebel faction fighters, ISIS, and probably a load of civilians will end up killed or maimed but the conflict will go on.

Historically wars are won by ground troops, as no-one will consider the nuclear option. Unless ground troops are deployed against ISIS in significant numbers they will continue to spread their influence, and as their actions are abhorrent to most, eventually either the UN, NATO (when they finally get around to a European country like Spain as their next target), or individual powers such as the US or Russia will have to send troops in. I can't see much coming from other Middle East countries.

[MPH]

One thing i disagree with Russia about Is Assad - they believe he should be left alone and should be in power.

 

 

 

He wasn't democratically, or legally elected and The Syrians are asking for help in getting rid of him AND ISIS.

 

 

 

Its a bit of a melting pot, really....

[Webbo]

The thing about Baathists which Assad is and Saddam Hussein was, they might be despicable despots but they are secular despots. If these people are removed then the region will revert to sectarian violence. Not really any good options are there?

[sphericalfox]

I just wonder why Russia are only starting help more now.

 

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

We should send in that Watford fan who posts on here sometimes, Superhoms.

[lgfualol]

I just wonder why Russia are only starting help more now.

 

Russia might have read "City of Homs" as "City of Homos". That's enough for them to kill people.

[MPH]

The thing about Baathists which Assad is and Saddam Hussein was, they might be despicable despots but they are secular despots. If these people are removed then the region will revert to sectarian violence. Not really any good options are there?

 

 

 

Secular. muslim, Christian.... ANY kind of despot needs to go - anyone torturing their own people to me is a moral burden for the rest of the world.... And yes, there will most likely be a fall out each time.... Unfortunately sometimes peace can only be found on the other side of conflict.  Idealist, i know..