Paris Shootings

[ScouseFox]

ISIS confirm they are behind it according to Sky News.

 

least surprising news probably ever 

[sphericalfox]

I understand that.

 

It wasn't my point.

 

The UK is a high priority target and yet all recent attempts have been foiled by UK security forces. IS want to attack England badly but have so far failed. It's so much easier in a disenchanted France with easy borders and poor intercultural relations.

 

Given the Hebdo attackers came from Belgium, and it's been reported that a Belgian car was used on the driveby attack. It might be a good idea to address this issue rather than dropping some more explosives on Syria and elsewhere.

[eddylcfc]

I'm seeing some disturbing posts on social media. Lots of people Preaching that western societies carry out acts of terrorism all the time, yet nobody mourns. These people are showing no sympathy or regret for what has happened. Western policies are not perfect, but who is? Please let us just mourn the deaths of those in Paris and let us condemn the attacks. Once time has passed it may be time to talk about solutions.

[lavrentis]

RIP

[Guest]

Given the Hebdo attackers came from Belgium, and it's been reported that a Belgian car was used on the driveby attack. It might be a good idea to address this issue rather than dropping some more explosives on Syria and elsewhere.

 

Not quite sure what you're getting at. Border controls?

 

Belgium is like a Parisian suburb.

 

You can catch a train and be there easier than Leicster to London.

[Webbo]

Stupid comment.

 

We haven't been educating with regards to this type of thing. We spend all our time trying to get people to spell words correctly and do maths. There is very little moral education or community education or educating people to get along with others and help others. We spend our time highlighting differencies and not looking at communalities. Society, the government and the media in particular devote itself to devisive measures. 

 

Successive governments have led us further down the track of education for capitalist gains not societal community gains.

There's been countless initiatives about community relations meanwhile people are still being murdered. Maybe after decades of wooly minded do gooding it all might stop but I don't think we can wait that long.

[Finnegan]

IS are the single biggest collection of atrocious scumbags to organize since 1939. 

[Guest]

I'm seeing some disturbing posts on social media. Lots of people Preaching that western societies carry out acts of terrorism all the time, yet nobody mourns. These people are showing no sympathy or regret for what has happened. Western policies are not perfect, but who is? Please let us just mourn the deaths of those in Paris and let us condemn the attacks. Once time has passed it may be time to talk about solutions.

 

Don't you understand that this belief is part of the cause? People see the West attacking countries and overthrowing governments because they want to control oil or have a "friendly" presence in a certain area or whatever and 1000's of non extremists die. The West then shows " no sympathy or regret for what has happened" but try to justify it affecting millions of people's views.

[sphericalfox]

Not quite sure what you're getting at. Border controls?

 

Belgium is like a Parisian suburb.

 

You can catch a train and be there easier than Leicster to London.

 

I'm suggesting that if there are hotbeds of radicals within Europe then surely it would be better to address these, rather than furtherly bombing the shit of Syria

[Finnegan]

There's been countless initiatives about community relations meanwhile people are still being murdered. Maybe after decades of wooly minded do gooding it all might stop but I don't think we can wait that long.

 

But what do we do? 

 

Roll in to Syria and Iraq, wipe them off the face of the Earth, chase them back to their holes and wait a few years until a new group becomes radicalised from that Western war and starts again? Stop interfering and let them continue to **** each other and us? 

 

I'm not being facetious I just generally am lost for all reason and logic. I mean, what on Earth do you do in the face of that much hate? 

[Guest]

There's been countless initiatives about community relations meanwhile people are still being murdered. Maybe after decades of wooly minded do gooding it all might stop but I don't think we can wait that long.

 

It can take a generation or more to educate a people's views - look at views on blacks or gays etc...

 

I'm not sure what your alternative was but increased security or bombing the **** out of some nation doesn't work and only empowers extremism.

[Guest MattP]

There is nothing we can do, it's here now. There is nothing we can do but hope our security services can manage to foil these plots.

Storming into Syria isn't going to do anything but encouraged the thousands of radicalised Muslims already here to blow themselves up trying to kill us.

[Guest]

I'm suggesting that if there are hotbeds of radicals within Europe then surely it would be better to address these, rather than furtherly bombing the shit of Syria

 

I agree wholeheartedly in the pointlessness of bombing Syria.

 

I'm not sure that the hotbed of radicals in Belgium is any worse than those in France but I agree with you in theory. 

 

Acts like allowing that radical (and evil) preacher (Abu Hamza or something) to stay in England so long and preach his filth put back the process in England by years. That's the type of "freedom" that needs to be looked at - which I think is what you're saying.

[RowlattsFox]

May be a stupid question but how are they getting hold of the weapons?

[Finnegan]

May be a stupid question but how are they getting hold of the weapons?

 

Not stupid but probably fairly naive. 

 

I mean, IS extremists start rolling down the Champs Elysees in an M1 tank then I think we can all go "how the **** have they managed that?" 

 

Getting hold of a few AK47s and some crude explosives when you're a massive organization sitting on millions of pounds and smuggling them around using a criminal black market is probably not the most elaborate achievement.

[Guest]

There is nothing we can do, it's here now. There is nothing we can do but hope our security services can manage to foil these plots.

Storming into Syria isn't going to do anything but encouraged the thousands of radicalised Muslims already here to blow themselves up trying to kill us.

 

This. and educate the next generation.

 

Fighting in foreign lands and overthrowing foreign governments is beyond counter-productive and we are reaping what we sowed in the past.

 

As I pointed out earlier Britain are better positioned to foil the plots than France but they were always be successful.

 

It's going to take at least 30 years to resolve the matter and we have to have a constant policy that doesn't harm the "peace" process.

 

We are no longer an imperial ultra power and cannot act as we did then. We're still paying for our "Israel" act let alone our gulf war etc... follies. 

[eddylcfc]

Don't you understand that this belief is part of the cause? People see the West attacking countries and overthrowing governments because they want to control oil or have a "friendly" presence in a certain area or whatever and 1000's of non extremists die. The West then shows " no sympathy or regret for what has happened" but try to justify it affecting millions of people's views.

A large amount (including myself) believe the west's involvement and present in these countries is wrong! We have no idea what happens when our armed forces attack and no idea what happens as a result of drone attacks etc. As I have stated western policies are far from perfect but my point is that now is not the time to divide. Now is a time to come together. I've seen numerous people, most of which are British Muslims, generalise on social media that the British public don't realise what goes on abroad and do not mourn. This is totally false as many are quite aware!

[Guest]

May be a stupid question but how are they getting hold of the weapons?

 

If you wanted a weapon in Leicester you can get one.

 

In France, it isn't hard either.

 

How do people get hold of illegal drugs?

 

How do people get hold of "slave" labour?

 

Where's there's a market there's a way.

[sphericalfox]

I agree wholeheartedly in the pointlessness of bombing Syria.

 

I'm not sure that the hotbed of radicals in Belgium is any worse than those in France but I agree with you in theory. 

 

Acts like allowing that radical (and evil) preacher (Abu Hamza or something) to stay in England so long and preach his filth put back the process in England by years. That's the type of "freedom" that needs to be looked at - which I think is what you're saying.

 

Clearly there's an intelligence gap if the last two (yesterday's tbc) come technically outside of the area attacked.

 

I'm not suggesting that freedoms of speech should be curbed at all. The last thing needed in this country or Europe is for governments to use this as an excuse to erode our own liberties and invoke measures that serve a dual purpose.

[Bettsj2]

There is nothing we can do, it's here now. There is nothing we can do but hope our security services can manage to foil these plots.

Storming into Syria isn't going to do anything but encouraged the thousands of radicalised Muslims already here to blow themselves up trying to kill us.

This. Also anyone on the edge will be tipped over and we'll never get them back.

Lets all be honest. Western forces have been bombing the region and chasing shadows for years and its gotten us nowhere.

The idea that if we fire more guns and drop bigger bombs is somehow going to help, is bloody ludicrous and it's frightening that some people think its a resolution.

[Guest]

A large amount (including myself) believe the west's involvement and present in these countries is wrong! We have no idea what happens when our armed forces attack and no idea what happens as a result of drone attacks etc. As I have stated western policies are far from perfect but my point is that now is not the time to divide. Now is a time to come together. I've seen numerous people, most of which are British Muslims, generalise on social media that the British public don't realise what goes on abroad and do not mourn. This is totally false as many are quite aware!

 

In France people are coming together and they did after the Charlie Hebdo attacks. It'll make a difference in the long term but there will always be a few idiots which the media will publicise to increase sales.

[Guest Bilo]

May be a stupid question but how are they getting hold of the weapons?

 

Pretty easy to get hold of in France, unfortunately.

 

The South Coast is very close to North Africa, and smuggling is all too easy. It's also true that the ease of movement within continental Europe doesn't just apply to human beings.

 

It would, however, be far more difficult to repeat the same attack in the UK as guns are much harder to get hold of in this country.

[Guest]

Pretty easy to get hold of in France, unfortunately.

 

The South Coast is very close to North Africa, and smuggling is all too easy. It's also true that the ease of movement within continental Europe doesn't just apply to human beings.

 

It would, however, be far more difficult to repeat the same attack in the UK as guns are much harder to get hold of in this country.

 

And less acceptable.

 

I think that's an important point people forget.

 

Culturally only bad people and a few farmers have guns unlike France.

[Guest Bilo]

Not stupid but probably fairly naive. 

 

I mean, IS extremists start rolling down the Champs Elysees in an M1 tank then I think we can all go "how the **** have they managed that?" 

 

Getting hold of a few AK47s and some crude explosives when you're a massive organization sitting on millions of pounds and smuggling them around using a criminal black market is probably not the most elaborate achievement.

 

If I remember correctly, the Madrid bombers bought theirs from Spanish miners and the London bombers made theirs at home.

 

Guns are relatively easy to get hold of in Europe by all accounts.

[lifted*fox]

It would, however, be far more difficult to repeat the same attack in the UK as guns are much harder to get hold of in this country.

 

No they're not. 

 

If you REALLY wanted to get a gun in the UK to perform an attack like this, it's a LOT easier than you think.