Paris Shootings

[Kitchandro]

Balls to all the using religion as an excuse.

It's just an excuse.

These people want to hate. They are indoctrinated to hate and to kill and do so in the name of religion. Is religion the problem?

No...its some PEOPLE who are the problem. It always has been and will always be so.

I live and work with quite a few Muslims. All of whom, I would be very very surprised, if they weren't as shocked at last night as any of us.

 

Oh this is just so stupid.

People can hate by themselves. People who hate don't need a fvcking excuse.

 

The naivety of some is unreal. Of course it's because of their religion. That's WHY they hate. The hate is caused by that, it's not all an unbelievable coincidence.

 

Oh and shcoked? Who's shocked? It's happening on a regular basis now.

[Guest]

Multiculturalism is the cause of all this shit.

 

If you allow people to get caught up in thinking their religion is their whole world and their culture better than the one that dominates the country they live in it will only lead to things like this.

 

People need to decide what's more important, people or their faith.

 

Islam IS the problem. It's a problem whether people are getting blown up or not. It causes division and that is bad for society.

 

You don't understand what multi-culturalism is do you?

 

And Islam isn't the problem either but I'm clearly talking to a brick wall with no ears or mind.

 

Extremists are the problem and they exist in islam, christianity, judaism... they exist in every area of life outside of religion too.

 

Do you remember the hooligans of the 80's. They were extremists. Football (islam) wasn't the problem, most supporters weren't the problem and we didn't ban football or kill all supporters to eradicate the problem.

[Kitchandro]

Religion isn't to blame. These people are evil and brainwashed. Don't confuse Religion with extremism. 

 

There would be no extremism without religion.

 

That's what people don't seem to be able to grasp.

[Guest]

Religious schools should be banned.

 

Then they would go underground. Secret religious schools - breeding grounds for extremism of all religions.

 

Sadly or not Religious beliefs exist, you need to go ahead with that understanding

[Webbo]

There would be no extremism without religion.

 

That's what people don't seem to be able to grasp.

You think without religion these people who murder countless innocents who they've never met would be normal happy go lucky individuals?

[Guest]

There would be no extremism without religion.

 

That's what people don't seem to be able to grasp.

 

Of course there would.

 

just not religious extremism.

[The Blur]

There would be no extremism without religion.

 

That's what people don't seem to be able to grasp.

 

You don't need religion to be a extremist- think hooligans, supremacists, nazis etc. 

[hejammy]

Multiculturalism is the cause of all this shit.

If you allow people to get caught up in thinking their religion is their whole world and their culture better than the one that dominates the country they live in it will only lead to things like this.

People need to decide what's more important, people or their faith.

Islam IS the problem. It's a problem whether people are getting blown up or not. It causes division and that is bad for society.

You say Islam wants to cause division however you want to segregate all muslims and persecute all Muslims, who exactly is causing divisions now?

Extremism, poverty, fascism they are some of the real problems, what you say only aggravates rather than dissipates

[Guest Col city fan]

Oh this is just so stupid.

People can hate by themselves. People who hate don't need a fvcking excuse.

The naivety of some is unreal. Of course it's because of their religion. That's WHY they hate. The hate is caused by that, it's not all an unbelievable coincidence.

Oh and shcoked? Who's shocked? It's happening on a regular basis now.

Completely disagree.

How many people practice Islam who are peace-loving, across the globe? Compared to those that hate? The problem is some PEOPLE. Not the religion they follow. They will twist it accordingly, and use it as an excuse to hate.

Power and politics.... Has governed the history of the world. Some will do ANYTHING to get it.

[ousefox]

There would be no extremism without religion.

 

That's what people don't seem to be able to grasp.

 wow

[bovril]

"Ideology destroys countries". All religion is just man-made ideology, no different to fascism and communism, it should not be exempt from criticism. These attacks were not politically motivated, they attacked restaurants, a football match, a rock concert. 120 people were murdered because they did not share the world view of their attackers.

The most 'Islamophobic' people I've ever met were the Turkish friends I made living in Istanbul.

[Harry - LCFC]

I'm amazed people on here are attempting to argue that religion has nothing to do with terrorism. We repeatedly hear that the words 'allahu akbar' were shouted by the attackers when one of these incidents occurs. That proves fairly conclusively that they were motivated by their religious beliefs.

 

This doesn't entail that all followers of the religion in question believe this, of course it doesn't. These people are a minority within a minority. But it's just wilful ignorance to pretend to ourselves that the way these individuals interpreted their religion had nothing to do with their decision to act yesterday.

[Guest ttfn]

Lucky they didn't get any closer to the Stade de France.

Only a matter of time before a top flight European football match is targeted. The security is absolutely pathetic, you get patted down and a cursory look in your bag in the away end, but at home there's nothing.

[BigMicky]

I'm amazed people on here are attempting to argue that religion has nothing to do with terrorism. We repeatedly hear that the words 'allahu akbar' were shouted by the attackers when one of these incidents occurs? That proves fairly conclusively that they were motivated by their religious beliefs.

This doesn't entail that all followers of the religion in question believe this, of course it doesn't. These people are a minority within a minority. But it's just wilful ignorance to pretend to ourselves that the way these individuals interpreted their religion had nothing to do with their decision to act yesterday.

You do realise anyone can shout that don't you? Do you not find it suspicious that a passport has been found on one of the suicide bombers?

[Harry - LCFC]

You do realise anyone can shout that don't you? Do you not find it suspicious that a passport has been found on one of the suicide bombers?

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at with any of this. I need you to expand upon your post before I can respond to it.

[Benguin]

It's too easy to blame Religion. In my opinion Religion is an outrageous waste of time, money and most importantly life but too state that Religion is to blame is equally outrageous, as Webbo said, if Religion didn't exist people would still blow each other up for other reasons.

 

In my opinion it is a problem that can't be solved unless the world becomes a place of absolute communism but for that too happen we'd have to face even more war and suffering and then we get there it just would not be feasible at all.

 

It's simple maths: If you put ten people together in a room, it's likely that they wont all get on. If you put 7 billion people on a planet it is CERTAIN that there will be conflict.

 

All we can do is live our lives to the best, hope that it doesn't happen to us and try and support, in any way we can, people who are affected by the very small minority of sociopathic douche bags.

[Guest Col city fan]

I'm amazed people on here are attempting to argue that religion has nothing to do with terrorism. We repeatedly hear that the words 'allahu akbar' were shouted by the attackers when one of these incidents occurs? That proves fairly conclusively that they were motivated by their religious beliefs.

This doesn't entail that all followers of the religion in question believe this, of course it doesn't. These people are a minority within a minority. But it's just wilful ignorance to pretend to ourselves that the way these individuals interpreted their religion had nothing to do with their decision to act yesterday.

Of course they were motivated by religion. As an excuse. That's the point I'm making. They have been indoctrinated into hate. Some of this will be based upon teaching a twisted form of religion. The Nazi's weren't motivated by religious beliefs (unless I guess they were anti-religion in terms of the Jews...but there was MUCH more to it than that), but they were indoctrinated nonetheless. They used other forms of ideology as an excuse to get what they wanted.....power.

[Finnegan]

Might be time to step up the offensive on Syria, we know where ISIS strongholds are, you hear in the news a lot about towns or cities held by ISIS. Can't we just carpet bomb these areas?

That approach in Iraq (and plenty of other times we've interfered in the middle east) is what created IS in the first place.

[BigMicky]

I'm not sure what you're getting at with any of this. I need you to expand upon your post before I can respond to it.

Just to scratch the surface a little more that's all.

[inckley fox]

"Ideology destroys countries". All religion is just man-made ideology, no different to fascism and communism, it should not be exempt from criticism. These attacks were not politically motivated, they attacked restaurants, a football match, a rock concert. 120 people were murdered because they did not share the world view of their attackers.

The most 'Islamophobic' people I've ever met were the Turkish friends I made living in Istanbul.

 

I don't think those 120 people had the opportunity to say what their world view was. 

 

I understand people who feel that religion in general doesn't help, it doesn't appear to have helped historically, but I think any belief system - political, religious or otherwise - can be used as an excuse for people to commit atrocities. Perhaps it asks a question of how we have dealt with terrorism in the past, in Ireland for instance, where we treat the perpetrators, along with the dead, as victims of the conflict. I can't help but think that this is just murder. Most murderers have some sort of misplaced belief too, be it that the woman they're killing shouldn't challenge the authority of a man, or exists solely as a sexual object for the purposes of a man. It's not right to treat a misguided belief as an excuse.

 

But then again, I don't believe we should be teaching white magic and sorcery in faith schools all over Europe. And we have to wonder how to deal effectively with people who hide their hatred behind an ideology. In a school we deal with regularly there have been a number of cases of young Muslim kids threatening to cut the heads of white students off - and yes, it's not something we should get carried away with, they are kids, they're saying the sorts of things kids tend to say and nobody is going to get their heads cut off - but their parents have been quite intransigent in dealing with the issue.

 

If we were to change one thing in the wake of these attacks, then for me it would be for schools not to say 'look, this is a hot potato, it's going to be easier to do nothing' - which is exactly what happened. Similarly, I've known of various incidents of kids from white Christian backgrounds coming out with all sorts of abhorrent nonsense, occasionally being sent home for a day, but nobody doing anything to actually tackle the misguided belief. Maybe it's because I'm a teacher, but I feel that at very least one of the solutions to one of the problems lies in schools being encouraged to deal with these things at the root. And while parenting remains an invincible profession it's going to be tough.

[AoWW]

What a shame that, instead of mourning the loss of so many innocent people yesterday and stopping to consider the searing pain their families and friends are experiencing, people take the opportunity to take political swipes at one another.  

[Guest]

 

 

It's simple maths: If you put ten people together in a room, it's likely that they wont all get on. If you put 7 billion people on a planet it is CERTAIN that there will be conflict.

 

All we can do is live our lives to the best, hope that it doesn't happen to us and try and support, in any way we can, people who are affected by the very small minority of sociopathic douche bags.

 

And the world is becoming effectively smaller.

 

Christians, democrats, city fans, Kitchandros cannot simply isolate themselves anymore. they are part of the world community that they must learn to be a part of.

[bovril]

It's simple maths: If you put ten people together in a room, it's likely that they wont all get on. If you put 7 billion people on a planet it is CERTAIN that there will be conflict.

 

All we can do is live our lives to the best, hope that it doesn't happen to us and try and support, in any way we can, people who are affected by the very small minority of sociopathic douche bags.

 

What an incredibly defeatist point of view. We should be trying to make the world a better, safer, fairer place, and that means stamping out murderous ideologies when they arise, not simply shrugging our shoulders and moving on. Fascism and communis ruined much of this continent in the 20th century, I don't really want to see more extremist ideologies take root.

Don't ask me how we tackle it though. Fvck knows.

[Harry - LCFC]

Of course they were motivated by religion. As an excuse. That's the point I'm making. They have been indoctrinated into hate. Some of this will be based upon teaching a twisted form of religion. The Nazi's weren't motivated by religious beliefs (unless I guess they were anti-religion in terms of the Jews...but there was MUCH more to it than that), but they were indoctrinated nonetheless. They used other forms of ideology as an excuse to get what they wanted.....power.

 

I agree that the 'organisers' probably are primarily motivated by their desires for power. Although I doubt that that religion is completely absent when they orchestrate these attacks.

 

 

Just to scratch the surface a little more that's all.

 

Again, if you're going to be like this I can't say anything in response. You might feel superior acting all mysterious and distant but it doesn't make for a productive conversation.

[inckley fox]

I'm amazed people on here are attempting to argue that religion has nothing to do with terrorism. We repeatedly hear that the words 'allahu akbar' were shouted by the attackers when one of these incidents occurs? That proves fairly conclusively that they were motivated by their religious beliefs.

 

This doesn't entail that all followers of the religion in question believe this, of course it doesn't. These people are a minority within a minority. But it's just wilful ignorance to pretend to ourselves that the way these individuals interpreted their religion had nothing to do with their decision to act yesterday.

 

I think people are just saying that if a person is capable of murdering hundreds of people, it's likely they would have been violent with or without having Islam to hide behind. It may well have been a different belief system were it not Islam - most religious texts have enough blood and thunder tucked away in their darker recesses to appeal to lunatics worldwide - but these weren't, as Webbo puts it, nice happy-go-lucky chaps before Islam warped their fragile little minds.

 

It's like the impact of TV, literary and video game violence on children's behaviour. There's very little evidence to indicate that watching Reservoir Dogs, Child's Play or Macbeth makes someone more likely to commit a murder. Some people will watch it, copy it, commit appalling crimes, but if they are susceptible to watching an hour and a half of Tim Roth and being inspired to murder people, then there were clearly underlying emotional issues which would have caused them problems anyway. The problem with something like ISIS - whether their gripes with the world are totally unjustified or partly understandable - is that it's effectively a call-to-arms for large numbers of unstable people who, by the very nature of their signing-up, are extremely susceptible to extreme acts of violence.