Thracian Posted 29 November 2015 Posted 29 November 2015 We improved because Pearson played a three man back four which enabled the inclusion of both King and Ulloa if needs be...thus giving us four reasonably good aerial players - or even five with Was. In playing a back four and using neither, the problem's re-emerged because both of those players offer a reasonable presence both in defence and attack - one that is entirely missing with Shinji. On the other hand, in general play, the use of a back four with competent full-backs has worked well. Unfortunately free-kicks and corners are inevitable in every game and opponents will quickly learn that we might have a problem again. Being fair, Ranieri seems to have minimised the effect by fielding players who are aware and disciplined enough not to concede too many corners and free-kicks. But, as demonstrated by United, it only takes one instance to cost us points and, with the system as it is, I'm not sure we can keep averaging the two goals a game needed to win games because we're already compromising some of our pace with the first choice use of Albrighton now, instead of Schlupp, yet we don't have anyone for Albrighton to aim his crosses at. That either makes a further case for the use of Ulloa. Or the case for using Schlupp as first choice out wide and King instead of Shinji because there's no way Ranieri's going to play three at the back from anything he's said and I'm not sure it would be better in any case. It's not the easiest problem to solve with certainty. Personally I'd go with King and Schlupp but Albrighton and Ulloa is almost as good and both choices would increase our scoring potential considerably and our aerial capability a little...and for very little lost as I can see.
Thracian Posted 29 November 2015 Posted 29 November 2015 Goalkeeper rooted to the goalline is the problem. Sell on and get Buffon in in the summer. Goalkeeper rooted to the goalline is the problem. Sell on and get Buffon in in the summer. He's not the entire problem - we were troubled by their corners and free-kicks throughout. Partly because they'd clearly worked on them and it is not always easy, in the melees created, for a goalkeeper to find a path to the ball even if he wants to. Basically two aerial specialists are not sufficient against a posse of big, strong attackers. The best defence is blocking the movement and preventing opponents leaping but you can only do that with people who are big enough and strong enough to secure and hold their position. You also need a mobile man to look after the near post.
lgfualol Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 We get so many corners and they're always shit. It's been about 5 years and commentators still say "Here comes Morgan and whoever, Leicester could threaten here" and the ball flies over the bar and out of the stadium or doesnt' reach the first man It would be interesting to see a game of corners-only between Leicester and Leicester. Nobody could score and nobody could defend.
Oxfordfox83 Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 He's not the entire problem - we were troubled by their corners and free-kicks throughout. Partly because they'd clearly worked on them and it is not always easy, in the melees created, for a goalkeeper to find a path to the ball even if he wants to. Basically two aerial specialists are not sufficient against a posse of big, strong attackers. The best defence is blocking the movement and preventing opponents leaping but you can only do that with people who are big enough and strong enough to secure and hold their position. You also need a mobile man to look after the near post. He isn't the whole problem, but a set piece ball looping into the 6 yard box should be the keeper's every time, especially when we know our players are at a height disadvantage. There's no way that corner should have got as far as Schweinsteiger, and that is two points dropped. Shinji wasn't great, but realistically Schweinsteiger is going to get the better of a man of his stature pretty regularly. It was in Kasper's power to prevent that goal and he fluffed it.
yorkie1999 Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 They highlighted the problem on match of the day for uniteds goal. First corner Kasper comes and takes second corner he stays on his line, exactly the same corner. He should either come for them all or stay on the line for all corners. The defense then know the goalie's going to come for it and they can deal with the marking.
Jazzy_Jeff Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 We're a team of midgets. Our weakness is becoming apparent and if we're not careful teams are going to put out a team of giants and bombard us with free kicks/corners.
Vicki Vixen Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 Schmeichel's lack of confidence claiming corners in the 6 yard box is an issue. But also, we are beaten too often on balls swung into the near post (e.g. Rondon at West Brom, Fonte at Southampton). Surely there always needs to be one player whose job it is to clear the corner aimed at the near post. We are also beaten by in-swinging corners (like on Saturday) because we try to man-mark the opposition players as they attack the ball, which means 1) we are trying to defend by watching the man not the ball, 2) our defenders are facing our goal as they try to defend, 3) unless man-for-man we are physically stronger than each player being marked on the corner, we take the risk that we lose out physically and give a free header to the opposition, as happened when Shinji was outmuscled by Schweinsteiger. I'd like to see our man marking approach on corners replaced by some combination of zonal and man-marking, e.g. we should have one player defending the near post, and at least two defenders attacking the ball while facing away from our goal. I don't see other teams man-marking at corners to the extent we do.
goose2010 Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 It shouldn't matter if there is a height mismatch its more about a strength mismatch, Vardy could out jump huth for a ball his leap is one of the best, could he out muscle huth? probably not for a corner. So its not the fact we are a small team its a strength issue. Ulloa does help us as he tends to be in the front post area and is as good as defending headers as attacking them. KS needs to come off his line and clear up even he doesn't win the ball 80% he will be given a free kick anyway! MOTD pointed this out that it was an identical corner we scored from as what he conceded from I have no idea why he didn't come for the it.
Captain... Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 It doesn't help that we give away so many corners, a consequence of giving up so much possession. We looked a lot better with 3 centre backs, but we don't need to play 3 centre backs to have an aerial presence, Ulloa was so important for us last season in our own box, RDL is also much better in the air than Simpson, and King is better than Drinky or Kante, but you can't pick a team purely to defend set pieces and Schmeichel has to do more to own his 6 yard box. Fuchs is no midget and between him Huth and Morgan they should have the main threats covered and at the moment it is a toss up between Shinji and Leo and for his defensive qualities Leo would get the nod for me when we are expecting a big physical presence in both boxes, Shinji is a much better spoiler against teams that will try and pass it out from the back.
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 We have a relatively small, pacey squad, I think that struggling from set pieces is something we'll have to accept for the time being. There's no way we'll drop people like Vards, Mahrez, Kante because they don't offer anything defending corners, we just have to disrupt teams as much as we can and hope that the ball falls somewhere near Wes or Huth, or a miracle occurs and Kasper comes off his line and catches a few.
MHFox Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 Many have rightly said we are poor at defending set pieces and our lack of size is certainly a factor but here's a thought. By focusing almost entirely on the guy they have been detailed to mark Huth, Morgan, Fuchs etc are not watching the set piece 'kick' itself. Opponents make their moves as practised on the training ground and when react to it we are already a vital millisecond behind them. Opponents score by getting to the ball first i.e by attacking it to get in front of their marker and the vital millisecond they have created is what allows them to do just that. Like most things in the game it needs a combination of factors to be really good at what you do so I am not naively suggesting this as a "whole solution" to our set piece problems but surely it is one of the factors?
Livid Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 We're just a small side. From a defensive point of view I always feel better with Leo out there. If that makes sense.
Bettsj2 Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 Definitely a height problem. Wes and Fuchs are around 6ft 1 as is Kasper so the only real height we have at the minute is Huth. Kasper is a great keeper but is in no way commanding. If we had a keeper of 6ft 4 and another centre back of 6ft 3 along with one of the midfielders being more than 5ft 8, I dont think it would be much of an issue. For a very long time we've had this issue.
Wymsey Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 What I couldn't really believe was that Kante was on a post, and he's one of our smallest players.
Sammy Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 In Schmeichel's defence for the Man.U goal the delivery is great, inswinging with pace. Those that are saying it was the same as the one he claimed for our goal aren't seeing its probably 3/4 yards further towards the back post making it much harder for him to claim as he backpedal. I'd criticise the space we left for all the United runners to run in to/Shinji's grappling for that goal but it's clear we have a problem
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 What I couldn't really believe was that Kante was on a post, and he's one of our smallest players. Would you have preferred him marking Smalling with Wes and Huth on the posts?
Babylon Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 What I couldn't really believe was that Kante was on a post, and he's one of our smallest players. Is it not usually like that? Let the bigger players mark actual human beings rather than metal posts.
Wymsey Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 Is it not usually like that? Let the bigger players mark actual human beings rather than metal posts. Ranieri might have wanted Huth and Morgan to cover the six-yard box, and put smallest players on the posts. I've seen this method before with many teams, and those teams had crap defensive set-piece tactics (yes, like ours).
goose2010 Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 what we should do is leave 4 up front for their corners they will then have to leave at least 5 back
filbertway Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 Ranieri might have wanted Huth and Morgan to cover the six-yard box, and put smallest players on the posts. I've seen this method before with many teams, and those teams had crap defensive set-piece tactics (yes, like ours). So what is your point here exactly, who would you have? From a young age in any team I have played in the manager has always opted to put the smallest available players on the posts and have the bigger lads trying to win the ball in the box. You could leave him up front but that'd be fairly pointless as I couldn't see him doing much damage.
Wymsey Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 Depending on how many players the opposition have in our box, I would seriously consider Albrighton and Ulloa to assist with the marking - to get the best chance of counter-attacking if they clear the ball (if you understand where I'm coming from) onto players like Mahrez & Vardy.
Vicki Vixen Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 Definitely a height problem. Wes and Fuchs are around 6ft 1 as is Kasper so the only real height we have at the minute is Huth. Kasper is a great keeper but is in no way commanding. If we had a keeper of 6ft 4 and another centre back of 6ft 3 along with one of the midfielders being more than 5ft 8, I dont think it would be much of an issue. For a very long time we've had this issue. It's not though. The corners we have conceded this season were not towering headers where our defenders were out jumped, they were almost all free headers scored after the opposition either outmuscled or outsmarted his defender.
Len Finsbury Posted 30 November 2015 Posted 30 November 2015 Someone mentioned Kasper's height being an issue but he isn't much shorter than his dad was, it isn't always about height. Look at Kalac, from what I remember, he wasn't exactly 'commanding'. It's just a weakness in his game and if he didn't have it, he probably wouldn't be still playing for us as I think he's quite ambitious. Those keepers without a weakness in their game are the world class players that are probably out of our financial grasp.
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