Babylon Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 I find this hard to answer, even though the answer might seem obvious. Different managers have had different jobs to do and have had to use totally different skill sets. O'Neill and Pearson, on top of having very good results for us also built the teams themselves, or put the teams in place to build them at the very least. As mentioned already, Pearson also clearly left behind a legacy (backed by the owners granted) that enabled someone to walk into a great setup. We haven't had to see that side from Ranieri yet, but his tactical side of the game, getting the very best out of each player and not exposing their weaknesses is way beyond anything I have seen. I suppose if we win the league, how could you not say Ranieri. It's the story of a lifetime, but I hope the building others did don't get forgotten, as they had to build everything themselves.
MrSpaM Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Surprised nobody has even mentioned Micky Adams, not the best but still
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Yep. How good was Paisley or Shankly before they left Liverpool? How about Fergie before he retired, or Clough before he was too pissed to stand up? You can judge them if they achieve outstanding things, and this is one such.. Not doubting you can get an idea whilst a manager is in a job, but there body of work with the club only exists once they've left - take Wenger for an example, had he left after Arsenal's invincibles season his legend would have been secured. Something that helps O'Neill's legacy is what happened after - he who shall not be named came in, we went top as he left things as they were, then he started adding his own ideas / players and we fell like a stone. Finally, one manager that doesn't get mentioned much, but was essential to our history - Micky Adams. By no means the most talented of managers, but he pulled something out under the most intense pressure.
Al-aLondon-Foxile Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 After just one season with CR it's hard to to put him as the very best we've had, but it's also really hard to ignore. I believe that none of this would have been possible without NP and the backroom staff, together they built something amazing. CR has gone and taken it up a level, and i think it might be easier to ask is this the best era in our history? Maybe at the end of next season we will be able to reflect more on CR's individual achievement with us and answer the question. This season on it's own stands higher than our achievements with MON in my opinion.
zealot Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Surprised by some of the comments. Very surprised. But it's all opinion certainly mine too. Ranieri is probably the only manager in the Prem that has reached top three in the worlds best leagues. Not even van gal has done that. That's why I find these comments personally odd. Leicester up to now has not had as good a manger as Ranieri. It never has. Even the heroic MON (and I absolutely love that man). If Ranieri wins the Prem, then there should be no argument. To me it would be daft. Agreed. My top 5: 1. Ranieri 2. Gilles 3. Pearson 4. O'Neill 5. Bloomfield Bottom 5 might be a more interesting (I could order these from the absolute-worst to slightly less-bad but I think I'll put them all as equally terrible and joint bottom of my list): - Taylor - Holloway - Levein - Eriksson - Pleat.
Head Honcho Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 I think any more talk on this topic can be safely put to bed now.
Head Honcho Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Agreed. My top 5: 1. Ranieri 2. Gilles 3. Pearson 4. O'Neill 5. Bloomfield Bottom 5 might be a more interesting (I could order these from the absolute-worst to slightly less-bad but I think I'll put them all as equally terrible and joint bottom of my list): - Taylor - Holloway - Levein - Eriksson - Pleat. You remember Gilles and Bloomfield on best but seem to have forgotten about McLintock on worst. He was by far our worst manager of all time.
Dodgy Bob Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 I'm struggling to see how you'd justify that?Adams got us promoted with quite a shoddy team sourced mainly for free from whatever retirement home would let him in. He couldn't buy anyone because we were broke, so broke that we went into administration. The club was a mess from top to bottom and wasn't far from total collapse, and yet Adams somehow managed to get us promoted, allowing us to spend one more season in the premier league and get ourselves back on a relatively strong financial footing. It's no exaggeration to say that had Adams not pulled off that miracle, the club might have folded. In contrast, Pearson got us promoted with an exceptionally gifted set of players courtesy of Steve Walsh and all the money in the world for the best facilities anyone could ask for. It's still a great achievement of course, but it wasn't as impressive as what Adams did.
Jace Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Martin O Neill for me as much as Ranieris done a great job the foundations were already there from Pearson, Shakespear and Walsh, although win the Champions League next season and I may change my mind
Babylon Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Adams got us promoted with quite a shoddy team sourced mainly for free from whatever retirement home would let him in. Lets not go over the top here, not everyone was a Sumerbee or a McKinley. Walker Elliott Taggert Impey Sinclair Jones Scowcroft Banjamin Flowers Izzet Davidson Rodgers
Fox92 Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Martin O Neill for me as much as Ranieris done a great job the foundations were already there from Pearson, Shakespear and Walsh, although win the Champions League next season and I may change my mind You could also argue the foundations were already there from Brian Little for O'Neill. It's what manager's do with those foundations. Build on them, as Raneri has.
Babylon Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 You could also argue the foundations were already there from Brian Little for O'Neill. A vastly weaker argument seeing as the likes of Claridge, Lennon, Izzet were brought in (key in getting promotion) and then most of the squad was rebuilt upon promotion. I'm not sure anyone could argue O'Neil benefited greatly from the team he inherited. I would argue O'Neil wasn't particularly wonderful behind the scenes for the club though, he caused many divisions.
Mark_w Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Adams got us promoted with quite a shoddy team I was only like 7 so correct me if I'm wrong but his team looks ridiculous for the Championship, Ian Walker, Gerry Taggart, Matt Elliott, Muzzy Izzett, Paul Dickov not exactly a bad spine. Contrast that to say the side Nigel first got into the Play-Offs (Weale, Neilson, Hobbs, Brown, Berner, Oakley, Wellens, King, Dyer, Howard, Fryatt), and consider that Nigel did it regularly for us over a prolonged period of time whereas Micky Adams' careeer has been inconsistent. I'm a massive fan of that 2002/2003 season and everyone involved, but I think you're being a tad ridiculous if you think it makes Adams a better manager than Pearson. I don't see the point of these comparisons really so I'll stop, that just seemed a bit bizarre.
Jace Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 You could also argue the foundations were already there from Brian Little for O'Neill. It's what manager's do with those foundations. Build on them, as Raneri has. Wouldn't really agree with that as that team was relegated before O Neill came in, also as Babylon they key players in O' Neills team where signed by him not Brian Little. Look at our key players this season Vardy, Mahrez, Albrighton, Kante was scouted before Ranieri joined, who did Ranieri bring in? Inler? Ranieris done a great job without a doubt but he didn't build the foundations like O Neill did
Fox92 Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 A vastly weaker argument seeing as the likes of Claridge, Lennon, Izzet were brought in (key in getting promotion) and then most of the squad was rebuilt upon promotion. I'm not sure anyone could argue O'Neil benefited greatly from the team he inherited. Which is why I said "it's what manager's do with those foundations. Build on them" which you, of course, have deleted from my post. O'Neill did build on, Izzet and Lennon as an example, but Walsh and Grayson especially were part of the spine.
Fox92 Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 I was only like 7 so correct me if I'm wrong but his team looks ridiculous for the Championship, Ian Walker, Gerry Taggart, Matt Elliott, Muzzy Izzett, Paul Dickov not exactly a bad spine. Contrast that to say the side Nigel first got into the Play-Offs (Weale, Neilson, Hobbs, Brown, Berner, Oakley, Wellens, King, Dyer, Howard, Fryatt), and consider that Nigel did it regularly for us over a prolonged period of time whereas Micky Adams' careeer has been inconsistent. I'm a massive fan of that 2002/2003 season and everyone involved, but I think you're being a tad ridiculous if you think it makes Adams a better manager than Pearson. I don't see the point of these comparisons really so I'll stop, that just seemed a bit bizarre. I'd personally say Pearson is a better manager than Adams but don't take away what Adams achieved. The off field issues were massive. We were in administration, certain players played for free, for part of the season in admin and the club couldn't even afford the basics of affording to stay in hotels.
lgfualol Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Ranieri got our 22.5m starting team into the Champions League and possibly our first ever title, beating teams that have dominated for years worth hundreds of millions in the process. Ranieri.
themightyfin Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Credit where credits due What Adams achieved under the circumstances was top drawer For me he has to be above Pearson no doubt Jock Wallace would be in my top 5 also
Mark_w Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 I'd personally say Pearson is a better manager than Adams but don't take away what Adams achieved. The off field issues were massive. We were in administration, certain players played for free, for part of the season in admin and the club couldn't even afford the basics of affording to stay in hotels. I'm really not disputing that, but it was one season with a very good team, it's not really comparable to what Pearson did consistently over 5-6 years.
Fox92 Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 I'm really not disputing that, but it was one season with a very good team, it's not really comparable to what Pearson did consistently over 5-6 years. I know yeah, and I agree.
4everfox Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 Adams got us promoted with quite a shoddy team sourced mainly for free from whatever retirement home would let him in. He couldn't buy anyone because we were broke, so broke that we went into administration. The club was a mess from top to bottom and wasn't far from total collapse, and yet Adams somehow managed to get us promoted, allowing us to spend one more season in the premier league and get ourselves back on a relatively strong financial footing. It's no exaggeration to say that had Adams not pulled off that miracle, the club might have folded. In contrast, Pearson got us promoted with an exceptionally gifted set of players courtesy of Steve Walsh and all the money in the world for the best facilities anyone could ask for. It's still a great achievement of course, but it wasn't as impressive as what Adams did. If we are going to credit anyone for working wonders with a lack of resources or quality players then surely Rob Kelly is worth a mention, it was a miracle we weren't relegated the season he took over from Levein and the following season he kept our heads above water whilst being a reasonably tight unit at the back until Worthington was brought in by Mandaric. Dark days indeed.
Fox92 Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 If we are going to credit anyone for working wonders with a lack of resources or quality players then surely Rob Kelly is worth a mention, it was a miracle we weren't relegated the season he took over from Levein and the following season he kept our heads above water whilst being a reasonably tight unit at the back until Worthington was brought in by Mandaric. Dark days indeed. THAT Johansson goal!
Dodgy Bob Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 I was only like 7 so correct me if I'm wrong but his team looks ridiculous for the Championship, Ian Walker, Gerry Taggart, Matt Elliott, Muzzy Izzett, Paul Dickov not exactly a bad spine. Contrast that to say the side Nigel first got into the Play-Offs (Weale, Neilson, Hobbs, Brown, Berner, Oakley, Wellens, King, Dyer, Howard, Fryatt), and consider that Nigel did it regularly for us over a prolonged period of time whereas Micky Adams' careeer has been inconsistent. I'm a massive fan of that 2002/2003 season and everyone involved, but I think you're being a tad ridiculous if you think it makes Adams a better manager than Pearson. I don't see the point of these comparisons really so I'll stop, that just seemed a bit bizarre. That Pearson team didn't get promoted so it's not a relevant comparison. The team Pearson did get promoted includes Schmeichel, Morgan, Drinkwater, Vardy, Mahrez among others who are all now full international champions league players, possibly premier league champions. Pearson's a much better team and the club was in a much stronger position. Anyway, it all boils down to personal opinion in the end. I don't know for sure if I'd definitely put Adams ahead of Pearson, so I'm not likely to be able to convince anyone else.
Babylon Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 That Pearson team didn't get promoted so it's not a relevant comparison. The team Pearson did get promoted includes Schmeichel, Morgan, Drinkwater, Vardy, Mahrez among others who are all now full international champions league players, possibly premier league champions. Pearson's a much better team and the club was in a much stronger position. Anyway, it all boils down to personal opinion in the end. I don't know for sure if I'd definitely put Adams ahead of Pearson, so I'm not likely to be able to convince anyone else. They weren't bloomin internationals when they signed were they, and Pearson signed most of them. Morgan, Drinkwater, Vardy and Mahrez for £3.5m!!! And that's used against him Adams inherited a largely premier league squad that got relegated: (rough costs) Walker £2m Elliott £1.5m Taggert free Impey £1.5m Sinclair £2m Jones £3m Scowcroft £3m Banjamin £1.5m Flowers £1.5m Izzet £700km Davidson £1.5m Rodgers 700k Yes, conditions were obviously far from ideal with what went on that year. But it's a team full of expensive players, many internationals themselves.
Kitchandro Posted 13 April 2016 Posted 13 April 2016 People talk about Pearson's influence on this team, and rightly so, but if you're judging him as a manager it has to be on all aspects. Tactically he was woeful and that's why we underachieved. The squad we had last season should have been comfortably mid table. It's ludicrous to say he's a better manager than O'Neill because of what we're doing now. We wouldn't be doing it with him because he's not astute tactically. I'm certain of that. Likewise it's not O'Neill's fault that Taylor ruined all his good work. The legacy he left was great, we should have done so much better after him.
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