Leicester City v West Ham post match thread 2 - 2

[AKCJ]

So according to Jamie Carragher...

 

The referee should be praised for getting into a good position for the Vardy red card but "can only give what he sees" when he's in a shit position.

 

**** off.

[FantasticMrFox&Son]

Right, let's see how the ref deals with physical contact in the area from set-pieces tonight at Stoke.

 

Anything controversial or will we get a good referee performance tonight.

 

Almost time to tune-in, come on the Potters, another top performance please. 

[old koppite]

He should be sacked instantly for this garbage. Henry is a clown.

I know and agree. When I watched their summary yesterday, I thought what illogical rubbish. As per comments on 5 live this afternoon, how can you start saying the ref could ever be right for totting up half a penalty, an eighth of a pen etc, and ignore Huth's claim because they hadn't been any previous incidents? The ref had a stinker.

[Clever Fox]

Yellow cards cannot be rescinded!

Thanks Weller I didn't know that, seems silly that a Red can be rescinded but not a yellow.

[skinnydipper]

My daughter has a pet rabbit called Moss

I quite liked him before Sunday

[digitalalba]

Vardy deserved the second yellow for diving.

He didn't deserve the first one.

He could've got a yellow earlier.

 

Wes Morgan reminded me of when we struggled last season, a nervous wreck. Captain???

Drinkwater should be captain.

 

West ham didn't really play to win, but our collective nervousness allowed them back into the game.

 

Now Tottenham have demolished Stoke, I fear City will struggle against Swansea, especially without Vardy, and Ulloa coming in and not giving us the thing that has transformed us, bags of pace going forward.

 

Hold on to your hats!!

[Finnaldo]

Vardy deserved the second yellow for diving.

He didn't deserve the first one.

He could've got a yellow earlier.

Wes Morgan reminded me of when we struggled last season, a nervous wreck. Captain???

Drinkwater should be captain.

West ham didn't really play to win, but our collective nervousness allowed them back into the game.

Now Tottenham have demolished Stoke, I fear City will struggle against Swansea, especially without Vardy, and Ulloa coming in and not giving us the thing that has transformed us, bags of pace going forward.

Hold on to your hats!!

That's an extremely pessimistic reactionary response.

Morgan looked nervous? Maybe because we were down to ten men. Behave.

[The Doctor]

Well I heard a lot of talk on RL tonight about City and Vardy having until Thursday to issue an appeal ad the possible outcomes of it. But I'll expect you'll be eager to clarify the correct process to me. I await your boorish reply, langorously. Try not to use caps - they hurt my poor ears.

They can appeal the failure to control players and improper conduct charges, not the red card.

[STUHILL]

Not sure how anyone can argue with:

 

1) Vardy 1st yellow was NOT a yellow.

2) Vardy purposely tangled his legs with the defender and so is classed as a dive and correct to give the yellow but harsh even so as there was contact, even if was of Vardy's making.

3) West Ham's penalty was NOT a penalty. He clearly dived foward and played for it with minimum contact and wasn't even near the ball.

4) Huth's penalty claim WAS a penalty. He was about to head the ball and defender had him in headlock right in front of the ref.

5) Schlupp is the difficult one. I actually think it was a penalty as he was barged off the ball. Surprised so many said it wasn't but i'm sticking with what I saw as clear foul in the box.

6) Vardy's post charge is correct, as much as pains me to say. Only reason shouldn't be given is that Moss should have decency to know he had a shocker and should be burying his head, not making it worse!

 

West Ham are a very good side and actually a draw wasn't such a bad result but I do think we would have won if we had Vardy stay on, so is annoying in that sense but drawing in that dramatic fashion couldn't have been any better for the team and it's confidence and passion moving forward. Spurs of course have since flattened my mood but 5 points clear, 4 games to go. It's still all in our hands. Spurs need to win 2 games more than us out of 4 games, which is still a big ask! 

[SpinneyHillRanger]

Vardy is fouled in the 8th minute with a clear headlock from ogbonna when Fuchs sends a long throw in the box. Both end up on the floor but it clear ogbonna had him in a headlock. This is stonewall as it gets... Yet media and most fans say nothing about it post match... That headlock from WWF set the precedent and was the standard all players went by afterwards.

In the Stoke vs spurs game, I saw plenty of free kicks given for when a player slightly held a player back as he got away... Very similar to how ogbonna held vardys shoulder for the alleged dive. Why is it a free kick outside the box but in the box its a dive?

Ref had zero control from very early on. He was a farce of a referee, most sky pundits like clueless caragher are just hoping they have something to talk about when end seasons draws near, so they can justify their drivel to their paymasters at sky.

[Thracian]

You're the only one so far who's seen the Schlupp incident (5) the way I saw it. Carroll came in, slowly admittedly, but never made an attempt to play the ball and bundled/barged into Schlupp's running body. It was a stupid, clumsy intervention.

 

As for (2) they were both struggling to occupy the same space. Ian Stringer, last night, asked the question as to whether Vardy didn't have the right to do so - and I'm not sure you can purposely tangle your legs and it be interpreted as a dive when both parties are running in such close proximity. Keith Hackett in interview on 5 Live (and replayed on RL) stated that a ref. has to be 100% certain it is a dive before awarding a card. Ogbonna grasped Vardy's arm and was using his weight to impede him - surely that has to be obstruction of a kind. Time some action was taken on the use of arms in such situations.

 

Looking at the Reid incident (3) - if Morgan pulled him back then how come he fell forward (like a tree trunk!) away from Morgan?

 

I think Moss suffers from an inflated sense of ego and an insecurity which left him giving decisions which his training as a ref. normally, in other situations, would have seen him being more circumspect. I doubt his ego would have allowed him to ignore Vardy's loss of control or understand he significance of the game to City. I think Moss took on a game his equilibrium wasn't quite up to.

 

If what we both agree is correct about Carroll's clumsy collision then Moss might be cleared of giving an 'evening-up penalty'.

 

I have to say that Huth was also guilty of using the same technique as Ogbonna. But Ogbonna initiated the strong-arm tactics very early on when he arm-locked Vardy. When players see that the ref. is ignoring justifiable claims then they possibly conclude that it's every man for himself from then on.

 

Time for video replays.

 

 

Have often have people called for video playbacks? Mind you without some sort of limitation (so many appeals or whatever) we'd have been sitting through a full-length film on Sunday, there was that much going on!

 

Seemed to me that West Ham out with the intentions of roughing up our key players. I've no complaints about that - it was a potentially cracking tussle with no quarter given or asked - but it was all far too much for the referee.

 

As others have mentioned, his major failing was in being so random and so inconsistent. Even by the end there was no guessing what he'd rule acceptable and what not.

[SpinneyHillRanger]

Yes - there's now no justification for referees not to have some kind of 3rd party recourse in dubious situations - it's proven worthwhile in tennis, rugby and cricket. Captains or managers could have, for example, two challenges per game. Some form of protocol would emerge and then be tested in practice.

 

My mate told me today that Pierluigi Collina had attempted to get video technology introduced but had been rebuffed. But I guess that's FIFA - a reactionary old-boys' club - intent on self-enrichment and self-aggrandising above all other considerations.

 

I was thinking tonight that Vardy was very fired up - a mildly reckless challenge early on - which Moss let go. Then another 'tap' which resulted in the first yellow. Moss made the error of not imposing his authority early on. In the first few minutes adrenaline is really pumping -  so much so that actions can far exceed intentions. Start giving out cards early on and it can suppress and frustrate the natural flow of the game - all that's needed is a timely word. By the time he did that, the situation was beyond redemption.

 

Refs. should be respected - the game couldn't work without them and a lot of players, cossetted and directed as they are and with the pressures they're under, lack the maturity and responsibility to act sensibly when faced with challenging situations. The great refs move about almost undetected, direct with a firm but gentle hand but never shirk the big decisions. I think they treat the players with respect and sensitivity. That game needed a 'big' ref. - one who realised what the stakes were for both teams and was up to directing it. What they got was a chap who was relying on the rule book rather than his personal authority.

 

I only hope this doesn't screw up City's hopes. Five points is still a good buffer but Vardy is such a talismanic figure and accomplished player. I think Mr. R. has a hell of a lot of thinking to do - I'd hope much of it 'outside the box'.

Your posts are in that category.

 

Thanks for responding. You're one of the more thoughtful, insightful and stimulating posters on this forum.

you're right very early on, the game had hard fair tackles but also some unfair challenges, including a couple of  clear shoves on vardy and a clear penalty - not given or even addressed. Everything just spiralled out of control very early on.

[Chrysalis]

Even if there was video evidence vardy would still have been sent off. Every single pundit/ref and fans who understand football says it was a dive

 

its part of the professional game to go down when there is contact, its a way to make it clear to the ref you were touched.

 

So there is nothing wrong with diving when contact is made, contact was made.

 

I am surprised some people dont understand this.

 

Simulation is the actual booking offence which occurs when a player goes down without contact.

 

I have noticed clatenburg the ref who was for our 5-3 game against man utd has hardly refereed us at all this season.

[st albans fox]

Tbh, he accentuates the contact (that could be argued he induced but this is not 100% clear) by the manner in which he falls which again is accentuated by sticking his back leg into the defenders as he falls. This is all too much for moss to cope with. He just sees it as a dive. it isn't so straightforward. There was some contact and vardy went down. penaltys have not been given in the past because the fall is 'over theatrical'. I would put this one into that context. these do not usually result in yellow cards, just a shake of the referee's head and play on. any decent ref knows the context of the game and the consequences of blowing his whistle. Any decent ref would have known that vardy was on yellow and that a quiet word as the players ran back to the centre circle would be adequate. If is incumbent on the official to try and keep games 11 v 11 unless a player has committed an offence(s) worthy of dismissal.

Moss's mistake was to blow up straight away, this removing the opportunity for him to think quickly.

[SpinneyHillRanger]

'Accentuates' is the word. Ogbonna would have been quite aware of Vardy's speed. First thing he does is slow Vardy by holding his arm. then he applies his weight on to Vardy. Vardy has two choices - relinquish the tussle or apply counter-pressure. He looked like he pushed into Ogbonna - which at the pace they were running, and given Ogbonna's weight, was bound to result in a tangle and fall. I suspect Vardy knew exactly what he was doing but Ogbonna was equally deliberate. Vardy had every right to do what he did. 50-50 - play on. What irked me was Ogbonna clapping the ref. for sending Vardy off. Saved him 34 minutes of hard graft . Obviously learned his trade from one of the Italian masters.

to be honest, the only "craft" Ogbonna showed was that from the WWE ring... from masters like hulk hogan, and the ultimate warrior.

 

shocking that he wasn't even booked. West ham should've been down to ten men with ogbonna, payet and reid all guilty, on our side maybe huth could have seen red for another forearm smash just before our goal. just goes to show how poor the ref and his assistants were. So much for carraghers 'ref was brilliant and got into brilliant positions to see everything' punditry

[Bryn]

Get over it.