AKCJ Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Misses a one on one in extra time in the '14 World Cup final and yesterday misses a penalty in the Copa America final. Where as Maradona dragged Argentina to the '86 World Cup, in fact he was player of the tournament. That's what separates them for me. Big stage and everything. Sorry mate I usually agree with you on everything but there is absolutely no way that you can say that he doesn't show up on the big stage. The man has scored plenty of goals in the latter stages of the Champions League. One missed one on one and one missed penalty doesn't change that. He's one of the treated of all time if not the greatest. But Argentinians will always hold affection for Maradonna more for what he did in international tournaments.
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 As if people still think Ronaldo is better than Messi, good grief.
foxfanazer Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Shocked when I read that. Think it might just be a bit of a hissy and he'll be back
foxfanazer Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Sorry mate I usually agree with you on everything but there is absolutely no way that you can say that he doesn't show up on the big stage. The man has scored plenty of goals in the latter stages of the Champions League. One missed one on one and one missed penalty doesn't change that. He's one of the treated of all time if not the greatest. But Argentinians will always hold affection for Maradonna more for what he did in international tournaments. And Messi has done it all without being coked up
ealingfox Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 The notion that Maradona carried a team of 10 mugs to the 86 World Cup is ridiculous and an enormous disservice to some of the players in that squad like Valdano. Maradona was the star player in a good but not great team, and they could not have won it without him. But he did not win it on his own, because that isn't possible.
Fox92 Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Sorry mate I usually agree with you on everything but there is absolutely no way that you can say that he doesn't show up on the big stage. The man has scored plenty of goals in the latter stages of the Champions League. One missed one on one and one missed penalty doesn't change that. He's one of the treated of all time if not the greatest. But Argentinians will always hold affection for Maradonna more for what he did in international tournaments. Agree RE Champions League, he's even scored in a final or two. I'm not doubting he's a great player - I did say that in my second post just to clarify - but for me what separates him from Maradona is not winning the World Cup with them. After all, we're all told he is the best player in the World. It's all opinions and it's hard to pinpoint one player as the greatest ever because the different positions but he's still way off Cruyff, Maradona, Pele for me.
ealingfox Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 If you didn't cut the first part of my post of I highlighted why. Messi missed a one on one in the World Cup final in extra time, can't imagine Maradona doing that. Argentina won it in '86 with Maradona as player of the tournament... And that's what separates them. Messi is still a great player, and some of the World's greatest haven't won a World Cup - look at the great players Netherlands have given us especially Cruyff and Van Basten, look at Puskas and Platini - I just don't think he is the greatest ever... Cruyff, Maradona, Pele are still ahead of him. Yeah cos everyone knows Maradona scored absolutely every chance he ever got for Argentina. Maradona didn't score the winning goal in that final.
Fox92 Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Yeah cos everyone knows Maradona scored absolutely every chance he ever got for Argentina. Maradona didn't score the winning goal in that final. Yeah but that one chance was a one on one in the World Cup final, in extra time.
Kitchandro Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Sorry mate I usually agree with you on everything but there is absolutely no way that you can say that he doesn't show up on the big stage. The man has scored plenty of goals in the latter stages of the Champions League. One missed one on one and one missed penalty doesn't change that. He's one of the treated of all time if not the greatest. But Argentinians will always hold affection for Maradonna more for what he did in international tournaments. I think there is an argument though that mentality comes into it. There's no doubt for me that in the latter stages of the world cup, for example, he has been found wanting. He's not necessarily played awful, but considering just how brilliant he is, you are expected to do something extraordinary. Now there are other factors - the Argentina team of 86 was probably better than the one that was beaten by Germany 2 years ago. And likewise, Germany were better than the teams Argentina beat in 86. But Messi wasn't quite as amazing in the huge international games as he was in club ones and some could argue that means he can't be held in the same regard as Maradona. I don't necessarily agree with that, but even though I think he's technically as good as Maradona and his club record can't be beaten, some might say that one thing he didn't have, which Maradona did, was the mental strength to carry the expectation of his country. Despite what people say about the Champions League being the best quality tournament, that mental side is what makes international football the pinnacle and that is why many other great players haven't reproduced club form for their country. Certain England players are a prime example. If you didn't cut the first part of my post of I highlighted why. Messi missed a one on one in the World Cup final in extra time, can't imagine Maradona doing that. Argentina won it in '86 with Maradona as player of the tournament... And that's what separates them. Messi is still a great player, and some of the World's greatest haven't won a World Cup - look at the great players Netherlands have given us especially Cruyff and Van Basten, look at Puskas and Platini - I just don't think he is the greatest ever... Cruyff, Maradona, Pele are still ahead of him. The debate between Maradona and Messi will rage on but Pele was not fit to lace Messi's boots. Neither was Cruyff. The two Argentines are head and shoulders above anyone else. Pele wished he has their skill (well he probably doesn't because he won the world cup 3 times but you know what I mean).
Fox92 Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 The debate between Maradona and Messi will rage on but Pele was not fit to lace Messi's boots. Neither was Cruyff. The two Argentines are head and shoulders above anyone else. Pele wished he has their skill (well he probably doesn't because he won the world cup 3 times but you know what I mean). Cruyff changed football, he was a true revolutionary. He did so much before other players. Without him you wouldn't even have Messi anyway considering Cruyff built Barcelona's academy up. He's way ahead of Messi. You've got to consider how players then didn't have the pitches and footballs modern players have, too.
The Horse's Mouth Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Misses a one on one in extra time in the '14 World Cup final and yesterday misses a penalty in the Copa America final. Where as Maradona dragged Argentina to the '86 World Cup, in fact he was player of the tournament. That's what separates them for me. Big stage and everything. Maradona cheated his way to a world cup final, fortunately the greatest player to ever grace the pitch hasn't resorted to such lows. I can't see this happening anyway, as far as I know it was said after the match so emotions will have been running high. If loads of other players are threatening it too, maybe it's a powerplay to get whatevers wrong behind scenes fixed
AyewJoking Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 The notion that Maradona carried a team of 10 mugs to the 86 World Cup is ridiculous and an enormous disservice to some of the players in that squad like Valdano. Maradona was the star player in a good but not great team, and they could not have won it without him. But he did not win it on his own, because that isn't possible. he had a helping hand from god.
ScouseFox Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 As if people still think Ronaldo is better than Messi, good grief. better footballer and clearly a better human being
Finnegan Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 As if people still think Ronaldo is better than Messi, good grief. "People" or just Scouse?
foxfanazer Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 i am the people's poster I think I speak for the people when I say you're not
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 way off Cruyff, Maradona, Pele for me. Pele was not fit to lace Messi's boots. Neither was Cruyff. Nothing like a bit of hyperbole is there lads
AKCJ Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 I think I speak for the people when I say you're not I think you speak for yourself mate.
Stadt Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Cruyff changed football, he was a true revolutionary. He did so much before other players. Without him you wouldn't even have Messi anyway considering Cruyff built Barcelona's academy up. He's way ahead of Messi. You've got to consider how players then didn't have the pitches and footballs modern players have, too. That doesn't have anything to do with their respective abilities though, it doesn't matter what players have done after their careers when judging their skill. Messi still probably would have came through at Newell's so it's an outlandish claim to make.
Samilktray Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Describing Messi as 'way off' any footballers ability is 1 of the most incredible things I've ever read on here. Obviously he's not as good as Wes Morgan but who is?
Finnegan Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Describing Messi as 'way off' any footballers ability is 1 of the most incredible things I've ever read on here. Obviously he's not as good as Wes Morgan but who is? Fox92 is just that annoying kid in your sixth form that makes a point of reminding everyone constantly that he likes the Beatles and that they invented music (aside, why have these kids never heard of the Southern black musicians that white rock n roll pioneers stole their culture from?) He's duty bound to try and convince everyone that every footballer that played before he was born is better than the footballers of today, regardless of the insurmountable amount of statistical data that shows how much better Messi and Ronaldo (and even Bale, Neymar, Suarez, etc) are than their predecessors. And that's without talking about the fact modern defenders are fitter, more athletic, more professional, better schooled and organised than anything Pele or Cruyff had to take on.
Finnegan Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 I'll go further and say if you put Eden Hazard, Shaqiri, Eder, Draxler or Payet in any team that qualified for any world cup between the fifties and the eighties and they'll probably have won it single handed.
Samilktray Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Imagine what Mahrez would have done in the 50s, 60s, 70s. Savage.
Finnegan Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 Imagine what Mahrez would have done in the 50s, 60s, 70s. Savage. It'd be like watching a Bennie Hill (much funnier that all this modern sitcom rubbish eh Fox92) out take, just eleven grown men chasing Riyad Mahrez round the pitch in circles. Sounds like a Benn gif to me.
Samilktray Posted 27 June 2016 Posted 27 June 2016 It's all been downhill since we stopped following game commentary via morse code.
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