Snipers kill several police officers in Dallas

[Ross-Kemp]

Would love to see the breakdown of who the police have killed this year.

I.E, X amount of African-Americans.

X amount of White-Americans.

X amount of Hispanics etc.

I find the slogan of 'Black lives matter' extremely offensive, ALL lives matter, regardless of your race / religion.

For me a lot of blame lies with the establishment, if I'm a police officer and I know a suspect is / has the potential to be carrying a GUN, I'm not looking for anything non lethal, I'd be looking for my gun.

GUNS are the problem, but too many Americans believe it's there right from a nonsense bill 300 years ago which makes no sense in 2016 and has never been needed.

But the circle continues, 2nd amendment rights yeah. Woo hoo.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

Would love to see the breakdown of who the police have killed this year.

I.E, X amount of African-Americans.

X amount of White-Americans.

X amount of Hispanics etc.

I find the slogan of 'Black lives matter' extremely offensive, ALL lives matter, regardless of your race / religion.

For me a lot of blame lies with the establishment, if I'm a police officer and I know a suspect is / has the potential to be carrying a GUN, I'm not looking for anything non lethal, I'd be looking for my gun.

GUNS are the problem, but too many Americans believe it's there right from a nonsense bill 300 years ago which makes no sense in 2016 and has never been needed.

But the circle continues, 2nd amendment rights yeah. Woo hoo.

This.

One day people will look back at this period in time and be astounded at how you were able to buy a gun at Walmart.

Its absolutely crazy.

If you say so

Yup. Callin bullshit on you.

[Russell sprout]

This.

One day people will look back at this period in time and be astounded at how you were able to buy a gun at Walmart.

Its absolutely crazy.

Yup. Callin bullshit on you.

Like your name them

[MC Prussian]

News have emerged that it was all the act of one single sniper, a 25-year old former Army veteran who served in Afghanistan. His home was searched and the police found explosives, rifles, vests and a journal containing combat tactics. It is said that it was a well-planned attack allegedly intended to get back at white people as an act of retaliation for the recent police brutality.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/08/us/philando-castile-alton-sterling-protests/index.html

 

All other three suspects have been questioned and released now.

[Itsthejoeker]

Given that black americans make up around 14% of the population then that's still a high percentage of black american deaths. Of course when you are dealing with those statistics they only become relevant when you consider the circumstances of each death.

But if you take a look at the breakdown of crime statistics by race the shooting statistics make q little more sense

[MPH]

Are black supremacists any different to white supremacists? It seems the history of the subjugated black American is now becoming a revenge theme in attacks on white authority.

Having said that, American authorities in the form of ordinary police officers, don't do any favours in shooting 4 times a black man seated in a car with his girlfriend having told the officer he was licensed to bear arms and he would show him his drivers licence.

With that in mind, when he went to his pocket, being black and admitting to having a firearm in his possession, did the officer react by making the immediate association between "black man... firearm... shoot firsit?"

No, that wasn't his assumption. the guy repeatedly ignored the officers request to stop reaching for anything and to put his hands out in front of Him. Some of the officer explaining that can be heard in the video. If you are concealed carry in the U.S, you will of have to of done a safety class before being granted the liscences to do so and how to interact with police when conceal carrying is one of the areas covered in the class, specifically listening to their instructions.

[theessexfox]

skip to 1:21 to get past the really annoying bit. 

 

I am not sure what to make of his interpretation of these statistics, he seems to totally disregard the issue of racism in the police force but interesting statistics to consider nonetheless. 

[leicsmac]

skip to 1:21 to get past the really annoying bit. 

 

I am not sure what to make of his interpretation of these statistics, he seems to totally disregard the issue of racism in the police force but interesting statistics to consider nonetheless. 

 

Ugh. Milo/Breitbart alliance strikes again, I see. As you say, he does make interesting points but then fvcks up - as he always does - when it comes to accountability.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

So firstly, I assume @@Russell sprout has a job application in with the LA police - gees!

But secondly, there is multitudes of damning evidence of at least poor decision making in the video captured by the women of the aftermath of her fiancé being shot.

For a start, I find it strange that officer has approached the car window and not insisted on the man exiting the vechicle - that would give him a better sight position and ensures he's in control of the situation.

It's also clear from the video that the officer has shot many times at close range, which seems massively excessive and has put the lives of others in the car at risk too. Was a warning shot fired? Where were the shots aimed - surely they should have been disabling shots, not kill shots initially (but this is a further difficulty conected with the fact the officer did not request the man to exit the vechicle)?

Then there's the reaction - there doesn't appear to be any urgency to assist the man after these shots are fired. There's clearly a lot of blood, it's obvious the man needs urgent medical attention, yet all the officer does is continue pointing his gun in through the window and the mumbled words we hear from him identify that he is clearly in hysterics.

That man needed urgent basic medical attention - yet no actions were taken. The further police officers that arrive on the scene seem more interested in cuffing the fiancé than assisting the gentleman. We don't see anyone taking control of the situation, we don't here any calming reassurance from the officers that medical services are arriving etc...

Now I understand that resuscitation efforts were later made by police officers, but much, much, later (it's light in the early clips from the woman's video, it's dark in the follow on video captured by bystanders) and they were sadly to no avail - but it's clear to me, earlier, more prompt action stood a chance of making a difference - and that makes the situation much more damning, regardless of whatever happened in the lead up that we don't see.

I would therefore be questioning what standard practices and protocols US police follow in these situations, whether they were followed in this instance (and if not, why not), whilst also considering if any policies in place need reviewing anyway. It may also be high time that police making stops wear recording equipment themselves - after all, this would form part of evidence.

Clearly more needs to be done to protect both the image of the police and the public from execesive police actions - and the police would do themselves a collective favour if they infact made strong efforts to out the worst of their behaviour from within, rather than close ranks which tends to be the default position (I can understand the tendency to do that, but this is where concerted effort is needed to change the culture within police forces so whistleblowers feel capable of standing up).

Of course - this doesn't excuse the shootings of innocent police officers alledgely made in retaliation.

[Babylon]

How can a person carrying a gun be unlawfully killed

Because it's lawful to carry a gun in the US.

 

Even if you aren't carrying legally, just having a gun alone does not mean you should be shot down in cold blood.

 

If someone is waving a gun about and making threats, then frankly they are an idiot and getting shot is going to happen. But that's not really what these cases are about. 

[Danno]

The #alllivesmatter lot are a lot like the #JFT39 gimps at the football. A smear masquerading as genuine concern.

[leicsmac]

And a thought.

 

The guy who murdered those five cops was promptly and legally blown to smithereens by State apparatus.

 

The persons who murdered the two guys that caused all of this to arise in the first place were promptly and legally put on paid vacation and are currently at home watching TV...by the same State apparatus.

 

Is there something of a dissonance here, or is that me?

[Webbo]

And a thought.

 

The guy who murdered those five cops was promptly and legally blown to smithereens by State apparatus.

 

The persons who murdered the two guys that caused all of this to arise in the first place were promptly and legally put on paid vacation and are currently at home watching TV...by the same State apparatus.

 

Is there something of a dissonance here, or is that me?

The person killing the cops still had his gun and wanted to kill more cops. For all what the suspended cops did, they didn't leave the house that morning planning to kill black men.

[leicsmac]

The person killing the cops still had his gun and wanted to kill more cops. For all what the suspended cops did, they didn't leave the house that morning planning to kill black men.

I'm sure that they didn't, and I wholly believe that due process should be followed.

It just strikes me as a little off that someone who kills a man who poses zero capital threat to them isn't being treated at all like most others would be. And such difference appears to be quite systematic.

[Webbo]

I'm sure that they didn't, and I wholly believe that due process should be followed.

It just strikes me as a little off that someone who kills a man who poses zero capital threat to them isn't being treated at all like most others would be. And such difference appears to be quite systematic.

If the sniper had surrendered he wouldn't be dead.

[leicsmac]

If the sniper had surrendered he wouldn't be dead.

My issue is not with his treatment. He presented a continual capital threat, and they had to bring him down; I think that's justified.

My issue is that two other men who also committed murder of men who did not present a threat to them in a similar fashion to the shooter (regardless of intent), are currently putting their feet up at home rather than at the county courthouse waiting for the bail hearing, as any member of Joe Public would be.

That's not in any way evenhanded, and as I said it's systemic: you can find a hundred examples like it, which is pretty poor. There seems to be a fundamental accountability issue, which needs solving.

[MPH]

So firstly, I assume @@Russell sprout has a job application in with the LA police - gees!

But secondly, there is multitudes of damning evidence of at least poor decision making in the video captured by the women of the aftermath of her fiancé being shot.

For a start, I find it strange that officer has approached the car window and not insisted on the man exiting the vechicle - that would give him a better sight position and ensures he's in control of the situation.

 

You have to ask for licence and registration first. thats part of procedure. To me this part is correct

It's also clear from the video that the officer has shot many times at close range, which seems massively excessive and has put the lives of others in the car at risk too. Was a warning shot fired? Where were the shots aimed - surely they should have been disabling shots, not kill shots initially (but this is a further difficulty conected with the fact the officer did not request the man to exit the vechicle)?

 

If you suspect someone is reaching for their gun, you dont have time to fire a warning shot.  The police take guns very seriously.  And they are trained to treat anyone who says they have a gun on them and refuses to listen to instructions about not reaching for anything and refused to put their hands where officers could see them as a serious threat.

Then there's the reaction - there doesn't appear to be any urgency to assist the man after these shots are fired. There's clearly a lot of blood, it's obvious the man needs urgent medical attention, yet all the officer does is continue pointing his gun in through the window and the mumbled words we hear from him identify that he is clearly in hysterics.

That man needed urgent basic medical attention - yet no actions were taken. The further police officers that arrive on the scene seem more interested in cuffing the fiancé than assisting the gentleman. We don't see anyone taking control of the situation, we don't here any calming reassurance from the officers that medical services are arriving etc...

Now I understand that resuscitation efforts were later made by police officers, but much, much, later (it's light in the early clips from the woman's video, it's dark in the follow on video captured by bystanders) and they were sadly to no avail - but it's clear to me, earlier, more prompt action stood a chance of making a difference - and that makes the situation much more damning, regardless of whatever happened in the lead up that we don't see.

I would therefore be questioning what standard practices and protocols US police follow in these situations, whether they were followed in this instance (and if not, why not), whilst also considering if any policies in place need reviewing anyway. It may also be high time that police making stops wear recording equipment themselves - after all, this would form part of evidence.

 

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there - you have officers trained to carry out inadequate policies and procedures. To me, that doesnt iundicate that we have inadequate  officers, but the policies and procedures might be  lacking

Clearly more needs to be done to protect both the image of the police and the public from execesive police actions - and the police would do themselves a collective favour if they infact made strong efforts to out the worst of their behaviour from within, rather than close ranks which tends to be the default position (I can understand the tendency to do that, but this is where concerted effort is needed to change the culture within police forces so whistleblowers feel capable of standing up).

 

Of course - this doesn't excuse the shootings of innocent police officers alledgely made in retaliation.

 

 

 

I think the sad part about all of this particular incident is that the media immediately reported ( over here anyway) That " a white officer shoots a black man" And in fact the sniper used this as one of his motivations that he " wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers". It later emerged that the officer was in fact not white but was Hispanic ( similar tot he Freddy gray tragedy where most of the officers were either Hispanic or black). Most media of course have just casually dropped the word white from their reporting without any apologies or retractions. but  its too late. 5 officers are already dead. Its exactly the reason why it annoys me so much that colour is brought into the equation so much.  If they are going to report that an officer is being a completely evil b'stard. could it not just be because he is an evil b'stard wrather than because he is white and the other person black? And its the same the other way round. If a murder or rape happens why are they seemingly keen to point out it was a " black man in his 20's" Cant it just be an evil Tw*t in his 20s?

 

 

As far as I am concerned the media has blood on their hands.

[Guest Col city fan]

When I was a little kid I'm sure that if anything like this made the news, it was MASSIVE news. It would scare people, it would be talked about for weeks after.

Nowadays, situations like this amidst so many others have become commonplace. So much so, that the surprise factor had turned on its head. We are now surprised if some 'catastrophe' HASN'T happened in a few weeks.

Looking back, probably the main stuff that made the headlines was all the IRA stuff. That was terrible of course, but with a few exceptions, was relatively confined geographically. Of course, there was all the football violence too.

Now, terrorismin its various guises is commonplace. It's become 'the norm' to read and hear about such and such going on, again and again and again.

Maybe it's always happened? Maybe it's now about having greater access to so many forms of media that it's just reported more?

But if this is somehow seen as 'modernisation', take me back to when I was a kid and genuine became scared when the Embassy was sieged in London. What is this world coming to.....

[Merging Cultures]

I will do next week.

I think we should make sure we get facts into the open on this, in 2016 there have been 509 people were killed by police officers and 163 of them were black, 53 officers in that time have also died in the line of duty, there is clearly a huge problem but the way some people seem to be likening the Police Force to the Ku Klux Klan isn't going to help.

The real scandal is the number of people being killed by the police, that many in little over half a year is staggering.

Yes it is terrifying to see the absolute number of being killed by the police, and the number of police being killed too. The issue for black men is that are disproportionately killed. They are something like 21x more likely to be killed than a white man.

There is institutional racism in the police force. There isn't much to discuss on that issue.

[MPH]

Yes it is terrifying to see the absolute number of being killed by the police, and the number of police being killed too. The issue for black men is that are disproportionately killed. They are something like 21x more likely to be killed than a white man.

There is institutional racism in the police force. There isn't much to discuss on that issue.

 

 

Plenty, i'm afraid. as well as no statistics to back it up.

 

 

On average, 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012, according to the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports. Using FBI and CDC statistics, Professor Johnson calculates that 112 black men, on average, suffered both justified and unjustified police-involved deaths annually during this period.

This equals 2.5 percent of these 4,472 yearly deaths. For every black man — criminal or innocent — killed by a cop, 40 black men were murdered by other black men. The, at most, 2.5 percent of the problem generates relentless rage. And, yet, it is rude-to-racist to mention 97.5 percent of the problem.

 

 

 

 

Thats taken from the website of Allen West. ( a black man!) you can read alot more about it here:

 

https://www.allenbwest.com/michele/crime-expert-releases-shocking-new-statistics-about-black-men-killed-by-cops

 

 

 

 

 

If black lives truly matter ( which of course they do) then why isnt this issue being addressed and complained about in the media by the black lives matter movement?

[Merging Cultures]

Plenty, i'm afraid. as well as no statistics to back it up.

Thats taken from the website of Allen West. ( a black man!) you can read alot more about it here:

https://www.allenbwest.com/michele/crime-expert-releases-shocking-new-statistics-about-black-men-killed-by-cops

If black lives truly matter ( which of course they do) then why isnt this issue being addressed and complained about in the media by the black lives matter movement?

I am not sure if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me!

It is terrible that police forces in the US are not obliged to report up to the federal government about people they kill. Shocking in fact.

Also shocking is the number of black-on-black deaths. Ridiculously high. I've definitely seen a lot of people talk about it. But then again, I was living in Baltimore and I'm married to a black woman. So those things probably bumped into my life than the average white guy from Oadby!

The BLM movement certainly has flaws, I'm not sure if they are trying to be a single issue movement. But it probably would be most effective to be one, rather than spread themselves too thin.

I like the piece Trevor Noah just did about the killings. I'll try and get a link.

[sm1]

Yes it is terrifying to see the absolute number of being killed by the police, and the number of police being killed too. The issue for black men is that are disproportionately killed. They are something like 21x more likely to be killed than a white man.

There is institutional racism in the police force. There isn't much to discuss on that issue.

Thats not true. Washington post stated that 509 people were killed by the police, 238 white (46.8%), 123 black (24.2%), 79 hispanics (15.5%) & 69 other/unknown (13.5%).

Census results show American population is 63.7% white, 12.2% black, 16.3% hispanic.

Therefore the ratio of a person being killed by the police for each dermographic is: 0.73 white, 1.98 black & 0.95 hispanic.

That makes it 2.7x more likely a black person being killed as opposed to a white person. If you add the fact that not all the people killed are by white officers, e.g. the last incident was a hispanic shooting a black man, these figures would be even more diluted. There's racism no doubt, as a brown person i've witnessed it myself in this country, but there's also a struggle within the black community. Chris Rock in 1996 did a fantastic stand up, Bring the Pain which covered some of the issues.

[Merging Cultures]

Thats not true. Washington post stated that 509 people were killed by the police, 238 white (46.8%), 123 black (24.2%), 79 hispanics (15.5%) & 69 other/unknown (13.5%).

Census results show American population is 63.7% white, 12.2% black, 16.3% hispanic.

Therefore the ratio of a person being killed by the police for each dermographic is: 0.73 white, 1.98 black & 0.95 hispanic.

That makes it 2.7x more likely a black person being killed as opposed to a white person. If you add the fact that not all the people killed are by white officers, e.g. the last incident was a hispanic shooting a black man, these figures would be even more diluted. There's racism no doubt, as a brown person i've witnessed it myself in this country, but there's also a struggle within the black community. Chris Rock in 1996 did a fantastic stand up, Bring the Pain which covered some of the issues.

Imagine being 2.7x more likely to be killed by police. They is quite a lot.

The 21x stat is for black teens apparently.

[sm1]

Of course 3x more likely is too much. I'm non white and have had first hand experience of police racism, but the hysteria driven by the media/ blacklivesmatter has made the police look like blood thirsty racists, who actively go looking for black people to kill. I can't agree with that considering police kill twice as many white people as black. 

What has angered me was hearing some black people say that now, since these white officers were shot dead, the white community will know how it feels to have some of its members killed. That's wrong and I've heard nobody denounce statements like that. If this kind of vitriol is allowed to carry on, the resulting violence and blood shed is not going to be good for any community of any colour.

[Merging Cultures]

Of course 3x more likely is too much. I'm non white and have had first hand experience of police racism, but the hysteria driven by the media/ blacklivesmatter has made the police look like blood thirsty racists, who actively go looking for black people to kill. I can't agree with that considering police kill twice as many white people as black.

What has angered me was hearing some black people say that now, since these white officers were shot dead, the white community will know how it feels to have some of its members killed. That's wrong and I've heard nobody denounce statements like that. If this kind of vitriol is allowed to carry on, the resulting violence and blood shed is not going to be good for any community of any colour.

I agree with you. The individual police officers are not blood thirsty racists. However, the system does discriminate, it doesn't equip police officers well enough, and it does need reform.

People are hurting (all sides) and the language being used by some (on all sides) isn't helping. We need reconciliation and peace building.