Schmeichel vs Zieler

[Jimmy]

Zieler is far from our biggest problem and the defence has been crap all season long, get a functioning defence together so many of Zieler's "faults" wouldn't get a mention so given the defence is the problem maybe its time the changes were made there and everyone gets off Zieler's back.

 

I heard so horrible comments directed towards him yesterday which no player should receive during the game.

 

The fact anyone wants him dropped for Ben Hamer is frankly daft

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, Bert said:

 Probably should've made himself bigger

 

Dunno why but every time someone says that I get this funny thought .....         

[lgfualol]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Zieler is far from our biggest problem and the defence has been crap all season long, get a functioning defence together so many of Zieler's "faults" wouldn't get a mention so given the defence is the problem maybe its time the changes were made there and everyone gets off Zieler's back.

 

I heard so horrible comments directed towards him yesterday which no player should receive during the game

When we concede 4 with Schmeichel it is the defence's fault, when we concede any goal with Zieler, it is his fault because our defences apparently need Kasper to hold their hands to do their jobs. 

[Wymsey]

Building a good team is known via having reliability at the back.

With Zieler, the team is having to cope with the presence of the '2nd best' player in that position. Of course he hasn't played consistently, but it's about having trust and a safe pair of hands literally so the rest of the team know Zieler is not steady at certain times and this as mentioned can bounce off to them in terms of being confident in play.

[Jimmy]

4 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Building a good team is known via having reliability at the back.

With Zieler, the team is having to cope with the presence of the '2nd best' player in that position. Of course he hasn't played consistently, but it's about having trust and a safe pair of hands literally so the rest of the team know Zieler is not steady at certain times and this as mentioned can bounce off to them in terms of being confident in play.

has anyone actually asked themselves how he can have any confidence in Huth and Morgan given how THEY have played this season? They have both been consistently poor whether is Kasper or RRZ, so he'll be nervous because of them too, everyone always mentions the defenders confidence in the keeper but it works the other way as well

[Fennec-Fox]

With Zeiler: Shoot and celebrate.

[Countryfox]

5 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Building a good team is known via having reliability at the back.

 

Is that English Wymes ? .....    You bin on the sauce ?    

[Jimmy]

2 minutes ago, Fennec-Fox said:

With Zeiler: Shoot and celebrate.

no that was Chris Weale

[funkyrobot]

10 hours ago, StanSP said:

who said he was?

 

9 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Comparing Bayern's standout keeper and Ter Stegen of Barcelona fame with a guy who got relegated with Hannover last season!

 

I like people who answer their own questions in the same sentence or shortly thereafter.

It was a response to the suggestion that he's a cracking back up keeper when his performances don't demonstrate that yet. There's a whole heap of pro Zieler comments on here saying that he must be good as he was the German 3rd choice keeper. I felt that the opinion that he's a cracking back up might've come from this previous history as it certainly hasn't come from his performances. It's entirely reasonable for me to look at him in comparison to the current 1st and 2nd choice German goalies and point out that he might've been 3rd choice behind whoever but he is nowhere near their quality so to use that he was 3rd choice as a reason he must be good is flawed. Just because you're selected to be an international goalie doesn't necessarily mean you are great. Sometimes it's a deluded manager - the selection of Scott Carson for England is an example of that. 

 

Tbh MC Prussian your final comment confuses me as I didn't ask a question. 

[coley1884]

I wonder if there might be a bit of an issue relating to their personalities on the pitch. I don't think Zieler is a shrinking violet, but Kasper is so loud and demonstrative that anyone who is less so must seem quite a contrast. For what it's worth, from my position in the Kop, the only thing I'd criticise him on is that he can seem a bit slow to make his clearances. However Kasper's distribution has been very hit and miss this season. Zieler's conceded five on the last 8 days but honestly, were any of them his fault? The first against Watford came from a unmarked head on in the middle. The second and the goal against Bruge were as good as you'll see this season. For yesterday's first he was left completely exposed, as he was for the second. Kasper has been inspired this season and last, but has made his fair share of clangers since he's been with us too. 

 

There are bigger issues at the back at the moment. Yesterday was the first time I'd seen so much shouting and pointing between our back five - no one was exempt. Fuchs and Huth in particular were having words. In honesty, the last thing we should be doing is getting on the keeper's back. I remember the 'Wealo' chants when Ricardo joined us. And that worked out well. Zieler needs time and support not hammering just because we're going through a tough patch. 

[funkyrobot]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Zieler is far from our biggest problem and the defence has been crap all season long, get a functioning defence together so many of Zieler's "faults" wouldn't get a mention so given the defence is the problem maybe its time the changes were made there and everyone gets off Zieler's back.

 

I heard so horrible comments directed towards him yesterday which no player should receive during the game.

 

The fact anyone wants him dropped for Ben Hamer is frankly daft

Why would it be daft to suggest Hamer should be given a chance? 

[Jimmy]

5 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Why would it be daft to suggest Hamer should be given a chance? 

because there is a reason Pearson brought in a 40 year old Schwarzer to replace him as sub and that he completely flopped in his loan spell at Bristol City, so much so they didn't even want him around and sent him back from his loan early and no one else wanted him last January and no one wanted him in the summer.

 

He's probably still a good championship keeper but no matter how back his form is Zieler is still much better

[funkyrobot]

Just now, Jimmy said:

because there is a reason Pearson brought in a 40 year old Schwarzer to replace him as sub and that he completely flopped in his loan spell at Bristol City, so much so they didn't even want him around and sent him back from his loan early and no one else wanted him last January and no one wanted him in the summer.

 

He's probably still a good championship keeper but no matter how back his form is Zieler is still much better

Having seen all of Hamer's games at the KP and all of Zieler's games at the  KP I just can't see how you can say Zieler is much better. 

[hejammy]

I don't understand some fans mentality, Zieler is our 2nd goalkeeper, to compare him to Schmeichel doesn't make sense, obviously he's 2nd choice as he's not as good as Schmeichel so it's an obvious point! As a back up keeper he's not bad, compare him to other 2nd choice keepers around the league... Not to our first choice! 

[Jimmy]

4 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Having seen all of Hamer's games at the KP and all of Zieler's games at the  KP I just can't see how you can say Zieler is much better. 

so show me where Zieler chucked a soft shot into his own net like Hamer did against Spurs?

[funkyrobot]

Just now, Jimmy said:

so show me where Zieler chucked a soft shot into his own net like Hamer did against Spurs?

I don't remember Hamer throwing the ball into his own net against Spurs no but I agree he made his one mistake in that game when he let the free kick in at the near post. Zieler on the other hand got it totally wrong with the speed of reacting to the breaks and angles of his near post covering for the Brugge goal and the Middlesborough second and seems to be beaten with ease. On top of that he currently doesn't even try and come for corners, kicks badly and slows the game down. Look I hope the guy pulls it out of the bag and backs up the faith some have in him (including Claudio) but I don't see it at the moment and if it's not working then a change should be considered at goalie as well as with all the other failing parts of our current team. 

[Bert]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

has anyone actually asked themselves how he can have any confidence in Huth and Morgan given how THEY have played this season? They have both been consistently poor whether is Kasper or RRZ, so he'll be nervous because of them too, everyone always mentions the defenders confidence in the keeper but it works the other way as well

Or have you thought the performances might because of their lack of confidence in their keeper? 

 

Hamer "chucked" a shot into his net?!  Hamer never even touched the ball  

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, funkyrobot said:

 

It was a response to the suggestion that he's a cracking back up keeper when his performances don't demonstrate that yet. There's a whole heap of pro Zieler comments on here saying that he must be good as he was the German 3rd choice keeper. I felt that the opinion that he's a cracking back up might've come from this previous history as it certainly hasn't come from his performances. It's entirely reasonable for me to look at him in comparison to the current 1st and 2nd choice German goalies and point out that he might've been 3rd choice behind whoever but he is nowhere near their quality so to use that he was 3rd choice as a reason he must be good is flawed. Just because you're selected to be an international goalie doesn't necessarily mean you are great. Sometimes it's a deluded manager - the selection of Scott Carson for England is an example of that. 

 

Tbh MC Prussian your final comment confuses me as I didn't ask a question. 

Look, I'll still maintain that the main problem that we have is a back four or at least two centre-backs who are more than just a yard off compared to last season and have been so in pretty much every game this campaign up to this point. My take is they don't ooze the confidence and it affects the whole team - or you could say, the whole team's a bit of a mess right now because it's not working up front and in the back due to personnel changes, injuries, bad luck, delusion, a certain amount of surfeit as a consequence of last season... It's wrong on several levels. The goalkeeper is only a part of the puzzle and I'd claim the majority of the goals we've conceded with Zieler aren't/weren't his fault, but due to a lack of discipline by our defenders.

They keep on criminally exposing our own final third, allowing for fast breaks where there should be none or far less. The are too adventurous, usually react way too slowly and/or magically appear far up in the opposition's half during open play situations when they should be covering their usual area further back.

[Bert]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Look, I'll still maintain that the main problem that we have is a back four or at least two centre-backs who are more than just a yard off compared to last season and have been so in pretty much every game this campaign up to this point. My take is they don't ooze the confidence and it affects the whole team - or you could say, the whole team's a bit of a mess right now because it's not working up front and in the back due to personnel changes, injuries, bad luck, delusion, a certain amount of surfeit as a consequence of last season... It's wrong on several levels. The goalkeeper is only a part of the puzzle and I'd claim the majority of the goals we've conceded with Zieler aren't/weren't his fault, but due to a lack of discipline by our defenders.

They keep on criminally exposing our own final third, allowing for fast breaks where there should be none or far less. The are too adventurous, usually react way too slowly and/or magically appear far up in the opposition's half during open play situations when they should be covering their usual area further back.

Can you still not see that it's not just goals conceded? It's the lack of organisation, the lack of vocals, the slow, poor distribution?

[MC Prussian]

11 minutes ago, Bert said:

Can you still not see that it's not just goals conceded? It's the lack of organisation, the lack of vocals, the slow, poor distribution?

We've conceded 11 in 8 with Schmeichel in goal and 11 in 6 with Zieler (already taken into account the goal in the Swansea game where Kasper went off in the 57th minute).

 

Tell me how that is down to a difference in goalkeeper's attitude, communication or style because I can't see any direct correlation.

Both keepers have been massively let down by their defense.

[Jimmy]

7 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

We've conceded 11 in 8 with Schmeichel in goal and 11 in 6 with Zieler (already taken into account the goal in the Swansea game where Kasper went off in the 57th minute).

 

Tell me how that is down to a difference in goalkeeper's attitude, communication or style because I can't see any direct correlation.

Both keepers have been massively let down by their defense.

the defence is the bigger issue but they were in place last year so people won't see it, pick a CB, they have both been as bad as each other and drop one, I think Fuchs may well have missed out by now but for Chilwell being injured.

 

Simpson keeps getting left out in the CL yet he is the only 1 of the back four playing close to his level of last season

[ZeGuy]

3 hours ago, Fennec-Fox said:

With Zeiler: Shoot and celebrate.

It's Zieler, mind you? Then it's one of the most inaccurate, unfair posts I've read in this thread. And god knows how much of these are in this thread.

[funkyrobot]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

the defence is the bigger issue but they were in place last year so people won't see it, pick a CB, they have both been as bad as each other and drop one, I think Fuchs may well have missed out by now but for Chilwell being injured.

 

Simpson keeps getting left out in the CL yet he is the only 1 of the back four playing close to his level of last season

Yeh the points about defence are fine but that doesn't change the fact that the goalie has been poor. The goalie role is inevitably to sort out mistakes in the defence in front of them as they are the last line when all defence has failed and there's a shot to save. Zieler has simply not stood out as an effective last line of defence. He has a clear competitor in Hamer. Morgan, Huth and to some extent Fuchs don't have competitors for their positions due to a flawed summer recruitment so we can't just take them out of the firing line like we can Zieler. 

[theessexfox]

Unfortunately Zieler is glued to his line, never comes out to mop up a situation. Not sure whether anyone expects a class keeper to be happy to sit on the bench mind, most back up keepers are shite. 

[Bert]

13 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

We've conceded 11 in 8 with Schmeichel in goal and 11 in 6 with Zieler (already taken into account the goal in the Swansea game where Kasper went off in the 57th minute).

 

Tell me how that is down to a difference in goalkeeper's attitude, communication or style because I can't see any direct correlation.

Both keepers have been massively let down by their defense.

It's simply plain to see. It's also not just a handful of fans saying it, look around the forum, social media etc there's a hell of a

lot people saying similar stuff. Doesn't command, organisation and communication isn't near what Kaspers is. Kasper has them on the toes from minute one. Have you seen evidence of Zieler doing this? Can't say so myself. Maybe in time Zieler will be very reliable but at the minute he isn't and the sooner Kasper is back the better.