Guest CityFan 06 Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 Who is in your list for the top 20 biggest clubs in English football? For me, big clubs are defined by three main key elements - cups, fanbase & stadium size. But there's much more to it than that of course and with this, there is no right or wrong answer. Being competitive in Europe is another very important factor IMO. This Wikipedia list displays the top 20 biggest clubs, but only by honours. Perhaps that could be useful for you in the deciding process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England_by_competitive_honours_won Here's mine: 1. Manchester United 2. Liverpool 3. Arsenal 4. Chelsea 5. Manchester City 6. Tottenham Hotspur 7. Everton 8. Aston Villa 9. Newcastle United 10. Leeds United 11. Wolves 12. Sheffield Wednesday 13. Blackburn Rovers 14. Nottingham Forest 15. Sunderland 16. West Ham United 17. West Brom 18. Leicester City 19. Middlesbrough 20. Derby County
Mark_w Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 10 minutes ago, LeiFosse 06 said: This Wikipedia list displays the top 20 biggest clubs, but only by honours. Perhaps that could be useful for you in the deciding process. Here's mine: 1. Manchester United 2. Liverpool 3. Arsenal 4. Chelsea 5. Manchester City 6. Everton 7. Aston Villa 8. Newcastle United 9. Leeds United 10. Wolves 11. Sheffield Wednesday 12. Blackburn Rovers 13. Nottingham Forest 14. Sunderland 15. West Ham United 16. West Brom 17. Leicester City 18. Derby County 19. Huddersfield Town 20. Sheffield United If this is a deliberate attempt to wind the Fighting Cock up, kudos.
AKCJ Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 How have you got Blackburn and Wolves ranked that much higher than us? 1) United 2) Liverpool 3) Arsenal 4) City 5) Chelsea 6) Spurs 7) Everton 8) Newcastle 9) Leeds 10) West Ham 11) Villa 12) Leicester 13) Sheffield Wednesday 14) Sunderland 15) Derby 16) Forest It gets a bit samey when you get past those. Difficult to really separate teams.
Fox92 Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 Top 8 picks itself but after that it's too difficult. For example, Leeds have a big fan base and a decent history but haven't played in the top flight since 2003. Same applies to Wednesday (better history than Leeds) but haven't played in the top flight since 2000. Huddersfield won a lot in the 1930s but would you class them as a big club now? Everybody talks about Newcastle (I don't think they've won the league as many times as Sunderland though) but they haven't won anything apart from the Championship since their last FA Cup in 58/59 or 68/69 (can't remember what year it was). It's all about opinion and what you're judging. Liverpool and Manchester United are miles ahead still though.
StanSP Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 How have you got Huddersfield ?! In no obvious order... Leicester Man Utd Man City Arsenal Chelsea Liverpool Everton Newcastle Spurs Villa Leeds Southampton Sheffield Wednesday Forest Blackburn West Ham Derby Sunderland Middlesbrough Crystal Palace Birmingham
Guest CityFan 06 Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 Yeah I thought about Birmingham & Middlesbrough too. Huddersfield won three Division One (now Premier League) titles for three years running which is some feat, they have also won the FA Charity Shield and FA Cup so thought they're worthy of being in the top 20. It's pretty close running between those three clubs I think - Birmingham, Middlesbrough and Huddersfield. Fox92 makes a good point on my selection, Huddersfield in earlier years won some real major trophies, but both Middlesbrough & Birmingham in this instance have had more recent cup successes and top flight football. It was a difficult one, have to say... Southampton I could of included, another difficult one to decipher, but then couldn't pull away some of the clubs in there already.
Corky Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 Football's existed for far too long to make a definitive top twenty. West Ham have spent plenty of years in the top flight yet Huddersfield have won three more titles. Ipswich have spent 22 years in the top division and have won the League, FA and UEFA Cups compared to others who've done far more top division seasons and far fewer trophies. Too many clubs to fit in and narrow down because it's a cyclical game and some will have periods of greatness and decline.
Freeman's Wharfer Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 1) Machester United 2) Liverpool 3) Arsenal 4) Chelsea 5) Man City 6) Tottenham 7) Everton 8) West Ham United 9) Aston Villa 10) Leeds United 11) Leicester City 12) Southampton 13) Nottingham Forest 14) Derby County 15) Newcastle United 16) Sheffield Wednesday 17) Sunderland 17) West Bromwich Albion 19) Wolverhampton Wanderers 20) Blackburn Rovers Think last season has pushed us ahead of the likes of Southampton, Forest, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday et al. Those clubs will never win The Premier League (I don't think it'll be done by some outside of that top 10 in my list ever again). Everyone further down the list is there on support and former glories and if it wasn't for Balckburn's PL title they'd not make it.
Guest CityFan 06 Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 16 minutes ago, Corky said: Football's existed for far too long to make a definitive top twenty. West Ham have spent plenty of years in the top flight yet Huddersfield have won three more titles. Ipswich have spent 22 years in the top division and have won the League, FA and UEFA Cups compared to others who've done far more top division seasons and far fewer trophies. Too many clubs to fit in and narrow down because it's a cyclical game and some will have periods of greatness and decline. Spot on. It is an unquantifiable thing to decide to a degree, because it's all down to so many factors. The top 20 we and I have wrote in this thread will be different in 10-15 years, inevitably.
Aus Fox Posted 24 July 2016 Posted 24 July 2016 We need some sort of formula, something along the lines of 1pt for each year in the top flight 200pts for winning Champions League/European Cup 100pt winning premier League/old division 1. 75pts any other European trophy 50pts FA cio 25pts League Cup i would then take away 1point for every season that passes since winning the competition. ie Leicester would get 100 pts for last seasons win chelsea 99 etc. with trophies won in the past having little barring on club size now. I would then add a point per thousand average attendance over the last 20 years. Its not a perfect system and I don't have nearly as much time as I like to sit and work out who this would put on top or in the top 20 but as a formula it could be a starting point to give an evidence based approach to answering this question.
stripeyfox Posted 25 July 2016 Posted 25 July 2016 Obviously it doesn't matter and is all subjective. But I imagine that somewhere within the Sky world that they would have a "Dream" Premier League whose 20 members would maximise the marketablility of the PL. I reckon it would be something like this: (in no particular order) Manchester United Manchester City Chelsea Arsenal Tottenham Hotspur Liverpool Everton Newcastle United Sunderland Sheffield Wednesday Leeds United Southampton Leicester City Nottingam Forest West Ham United Aston Villa Birmingham City Norwich City Blackburn Rovers Middlesbrough Bubbling Under: Portsmouth Ipswich Town Derby County Wolverhampton Wanderers Crystal Palace Stoke City West Bromwich Albion
Dan Posted 25 July 2016 Posted 25 July 2016 There is no agreed formula but people will always fit their own formula to suit their own club. Us, Derby and Forest are all very similar sized clubs in my eyes. Those two more successful (although now better than ever is our chance to catch them up) but there's less between us than they would ever admit. Top five for me size wise are Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton in that order.
Finnegan Posted 25 July 2016 Posted 25 July 2016 Tottenham big club big failures more like am I right
Guest CityFan 06 Posted 25 July 2016 Posted 25 July 2016 I've made one change to my list, after analyzing it. Middlesbrough edge in the top 20 for me.
stripeyfox Posted 26 July 2016 Posted 26 July 2016 19 hours ago, Dan LCFC said: There is no agreed formula but people will always fit their own formula to suit their own club. Us, Derby and Forest are all very similar sized clubs in my eyes. Those two more successful (although now better than ever is our chance to catch them up) but there's less between us than they would ever admit. Top five for me size wise are Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton in that order. Being objective about it (or trying to be), I think Leicester only edge in for me as a result of last couple of seasons. Prior to the Great Escape and Premier League win, I think in the wider public's conciousness we are stitting with the likes of Stoke, West Brom and the other clubs just below the arbitary "Top 20". But I think the legacy of what we achieved propels us into the Top 20 for some time to come, in the same way I would consider Forest to be there despite being garbage for years. My own criteria for this Top 20 was the most "marketable" clubs - the ones which will sell most TV subscriptions around the world.
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 26 July 2016 Posted 26 July 2016 What a wanky list. At the moment, we're bigger than Leeds, Blackburn, Forest, Wolves, Sunderland, Wednesday, West Brom (and now Villa and Newcastle) etc by some distance. Fan base can't be decided just on how many people go to games / size of catchment area when nowadays the game has a global reach, especially in the most exposed / watched league in the world (which we've just dicked). Nobody in the far east is going to attach themselves to Wednesday (for example) when they haven't won anything in colour and the top tier has changed so drastically since the likes of themselves, Leeds and Forest were last competing in it.
Finnegan Posted 27 July 2016 Posted 27 July 2016 Anyone who didn't name the current premier league twenty is a moron. Pissing contests about fan base and history are the most boring shit in football. You're either in the top flight or you're not. Bournemouth are a much bigger club than Leeds.
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