Claudio Ranieri’s persistence fails to recognise Leicester system failure

[Bazly]

The article writers in the Sports press are beginning to write about what we noticed a few months back.

 

Leicester City system Failure

[zealot]

5 minutes ago, Bazly said:

The article writers in the Sports press are beginning to write about what we noticed a few months back.

 

Leicester City system Failure

This is just vulture-circling rubbish stretched out into a whole article. 

I am not saying things are rosy at the moment -far from it- but if we can play with the same midfield for four or five games in a row you might find that battling, short-passing comes back.

 

He's been trying several different systems in the second half of the season - you can't say that he's stuck to 4-4-2 counterattacking. That may be our default if things are going wrong (as a fall back formation) but he's tried a number of different systems and none have worked out.

 

Sacking a manager when you are in Champion's League final stages, still in FA Cup and with advantageous goal difference among teams around you in bottom four or five is just muddled short-term thinking!

 

[Thracian]

I don't give a toss about the report but I do care about our club. And if getting rid of the manager is the only way to improve attitudes in the dressing room and tactics on the pitch then the sooner it's done the better.

 

I no longer see Ranieri as the long term manager we need anyway. You can stick his version of the old Catenaccio system and the boring of fans til they sleep.

 

It's so flawed in modern football it's all but indefensible - especially with the clampdown on physical contact and defenders wrestling with their opponents.    

  

High pressing, quick defenders and fast passing is the way forward. Strength, speed and ruthlessness.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catenaccio

[Babylon]

35 minutes ago, zealot said:

This is just vulture-circling rubbish stretched out into a whole article. 

I am not saying things are rosy at the moment -far from it- but if we can play with the same midfield for four or five games in a row you might find that battling, short-passing comes back.

 

He's been trying several different systems in the second half of the season - you can't say that he's stuck to 4-4-2 counterattacking. That may be our default if things are going wrong (as a fall back formation) but he's tried a number of different systems and none have worked out.

 

Sacking a manager when you are in Champion's League final stages, still in FA Cup and with advantageous goal difference among teams around you in bottom four or five is just muddled short-term thinking!

 

He hasn't really tried any formation other than 442, because he's never given them long enough to even see if they work. 4 formations in 5 games is frankly the work of someone who has no idea what he's doing or what the problem is.

 

You identify the problem, identify what needs to happen to solve it and stick at it. Any formation or tactical change will take time, it's not going to work instantly. The fact he also bowed to player pressure on formation shows he's not in control of the group at all. If you think the formation is the problem you change it... you don't ask permission from the players to do so and give in when they grumble.

[zealot]

I agree with most of this Babylon. He is trying things and midfield I think is key. Ndidi, Drinkwater and Mendy in the centre I'd like to see. Even if we don't score. Stop those runs through our midfield that have been plaguing us all season.

 

4-5-1 for a few games. 0-0s for a few games to just halt the leaky midfield...

 

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

He hasn't really tried any formation other than 442, because he's never given them long enough to even see if they work. 4 formations in 5 games is frankly the work of someone who has no idea what he's doing or what the problem is.

 

You identify the problem, identify what needs to happen to solve it and stick at it. Any formation or tactical change will take time, it's not going to work instantly. The fact he also bowed to player pressure on formation shows he's not in control of the group at all. If you think the formation is the problem you change it... you don't ask permission from the players to do so and give in when they grumble.

 

[Benji]

There's a lot being said recently about tactics, formations and transfers but fundamentally we are just not doing the basic things right which resulted in so much success last season, and I struggle to see why that is as it's predominantly the same team.  A few examples:

• our back four cannot pass five yards to the midfield and they don't even look up to see if the pass is available to Drinkwater or whoever's partnering him - head stays down and it's an automatic decision to pass back to Kasper or launch it up to Vardy - Fuchs is the worst for this but all of them do it
• Drinkwater isn't taking control of the game anymore, probably as a result of low confidence (and a drop of form which he's acknowledged himself) he's shying away from the game playing three yard passes when before his injury he would start the play from the back four and ping passes all around the park, driving the team forward and unlocking defences - he's at his best when he grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and becomes the main man on the pitch.  Put simply, when Drinkwater plays well Leicester play well - we desperately need him to get back to his best
• Vardy rarely chases lost causes anymore which last year motivated the whole team to follow him forward and press high up the pitch - is this laziness or tactical?  I have no idea if he has been told to stop this because we're not a "pressing" team anymore but I struggle to believe that's the case because in the odd game where we press as a team we look dangerous (e.g. Man City who we knew would dwell on the ball)
• when we have a chance to counterattack last season we looked for a diagonal ball into space, this season we pass it back to Kasper even if we're on the halfway line - it's like Konchesky is back in the team pinging 40 yard passes back to keeper - if we do go forward it's a punt by Albrighton right down the middle which Vardy will win once in 20 attempts

A refresh of personnel, formation, style of play etc. might be needed, but if we were doing the basics right I don't think we'd be around the relegation zone. 

 

[holyfox]

25 minutes ago, zealot said:

I agree with most of this Babylon. He is trying things and midfield I think is key. Ndidi, Drinkwater and Mendy in the centre I'd like to see. Even if we don't score. Stop those runs through our midfield that have been plaguing us all season.

 

4-5-1 for a few games. 0-0s for a few games to just halt the leaky midfield...

 

 

I agree with both of you and we as fans need to back them whilst they get through their learning curve. Rightly or wrongly, negativity or a lack of noise/support gets to the players and it's just counter productive.

i think we as fans have to show our quality too. If it's a boring 0-0 for 5 matches I don't care, points are more important than performance for the rest of the season. Get behind them and help build their confidence and energy back up. 

Telling them that they are lazy c*nts is hardly going to help. 

Then we take stock in the summer and rebuild from there.

[Ian S]

27 minutes ago, zealot said:

I agree with most of this Babylon. He is trying things and midfield I think is key. Ndidi, Drinkwater and Mendy in the centre I'd like to see. Even if we don't score. Stop those runs through our midfield that have been plaguing us all season.

 

4-5-1 for a few games. 0-0s for a few games to just halt the leaky midfield...

 

 

Totally agree,we need to persevere with that midfield 3,I know people will say they started recently at Southampton but it failed because of how they were set up.

If we go with just 2 in the middle on Sunday we will get overpowered and overrun.

[Thracian]

 

 

 

I'm increasingly despondent about our chances of avoiding relegation and even more so if we keep leaving King out. He's the only link we've got between defence and attack and the sooner the manager recognises that the better.

 

N'Didi's doing fine as the defensive midfielder he's supposed to be but we need to build from there and have no chance right now.

I still don't think King will be enough to swing it. But it will be a start. 

 

I'd put Chilwell in as a left wing-back to provide another passer and get as much threat and passing as we can in other positions.

 

Something like:

 

Kasper;

 

Albrighton, Morgan,  Huth, Chilwell;

 

       Ni'Didi, King, Amartey; 

                                                

       Mahrez,  Slimani, Musa.                                

 

I don't pretend that's perfect either. There's little to chose between Musa, Ulloa, Shinji or Grey. All have strengths and weaknesses.

 

But Ulloa won't be fully fit,  Shinji spends all his time on the floor and can't pass while Grey runs out of gas too soon.

 

The system should be far more fluid in terms of passing,  off-the-ball movement and also includes a few more potential scorers than usual and the ability to move forward and  backwards as one.

 

Above all it has threat that needs to be countered, goals potential and some hope that we can play the ball on the floor.  

 

It's there as a basis and a more forward-looking blueprint for the future.              . 

 

 

[smudgerfox]

24 minutes ago, Benji said:

There's a lot being said recently about tactics, formations and transfers but fundamentally we are just not doing the basic things right which resulted in so much success last season, and I struggle to see why that is as it's predominantly the same team.  A few examples:

• our back four cannot pass five yards to the midfield and they don't even look up to see if the pass is available to Drinkwater or whoever's partnering him - head stays down and it's an automatic decision to pass back to Kasper or launch it up to Vardy - Fuchs is the worst for this but all of them do it
• Drinkwater isn't taking control of the game anymore, probably as a result of low confidence (and a drop of form which he's acknowledged himself) he's shying away from the game playing three yard passes when before his injury he would start the play from the back four and ping passes all around the park, driving the team forward and unlocking defences - he's at his best when he grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and becomes the main man on the pitch.  Put simply, when Drinkwater plays well Leicester play well - we desperately need him to get back to his best
• Vardy rarely chases lost causes anymore which last year motivated the whole team to follow him forward and press high up the pitch - is this laziness or tactical?  I have no idea if he has been told to stop this because we're not a "pressing" team anymore but I struggle to believe that's the case because in the odd game where we press as a team we look dangerous (e.g. Man City who we knew would dwell on the ball)
• when we have a chance to counterattack last season we looked for a diagonal ball into space, this season we pass it back to Kasper even if we're on the halfway line - it's like Konchesky is back in the team pinging 40 yard passes back to keeper - if we do go forward it's a punt by Albrighton right down the middle which Vardy will win once in 20 attempts

A refresh of personnel, formation, style of play etc. might be needed, but if we were doing the basics right I don't think we'd be around the relegation zone. 

 

 

I agree with a lot of this. But I think it's easy to underestimate what the Vardy harrying and chasing did for us. Two particular games last season. Southampton (h), Liverpool (h) - we got murdered by the fast passing and pressing of both these teams in the first twenty minutes as they passed from the back and through the midfield. But then Vardy and others blocked a couple of passes out -  almost forced their keeper into an error - something seemingly insubstantial,  but it shook the confidence of our opponents in playing out from the back. As a result they started to go long - meat and drink for an in form Huth and Morgan. The pressure applied and the obvious danger it carried,  made the game more even and set up the eventual victory. Of course to a purist it's agricultural and a waste of energy...  

 

 

[Sharpe's Fox]

Burnley play 442 just fine and make chances and win games. Problem is the work rate isn't there and the team are always set up not to lose games. Can't remember the last time we had a ten minute spell in the league where we are peppering their box with crosses and shots.

[The Horse's Mouth]

I used to blame the system, and do think the three in the middle is the best for our current situation. But the reason why it's failed is the players just arent committed enough like they were the seasons before.

[Koke]

25 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

 

 

I'm increasingly despondent about our chances of avoiding relegation and even more so if we keep leaving King out. He's the only link we've got between defence and attack and the sooner the manager recognises that the better.

 

N'Didi's doing fine as the defensive midfielder he's supposed to be but we need to build from there and have no chance right now.

I still don't think King will be enough to swing it. But it will be a start. 

 

I'd put Chilwell in as a left wing-back to provide another passer and get as much threat and passing as we can in other positions.

 

Something like:

 

Kasper;

 

Albrighton, Morgan,  Huth, Chilwell;

 

       Ni'Didi, King, Amartey; 

                                                

       Mahrez,  Slimani, Musa.                                

 

I don't pretend that's perfect either. There's little to chose between Musa, Ulloa, Shinji or Grey. All have strengths and weaknesses.

 

But Ulloa won't be fully fit,  Shinji spends all his time on the floor and can't pass while Grey runs out of gas too soon.

 

The system should be far more fluid in terms of passing,  off-the-ball movement and also includes a few more potential scorers than usual and the ability to move forward and  backwards as one.

 

Above all it has threat that needs to be countered, goals potential and some hope that we can play the ball on the floor.  

 

It's there as a basis and a more forward-looking blueprint for the future.              . 

 

 

 

Agree with that. 

 

I'd even consider trying Amartey as CB. We're already leaking goals for fun so it's not that much of a gamble. Amartey is 6'1, can head, is quick and  can pass.

 

Midfield 3 of Mendy, Ndidi and King and a front 3 of Mahrez, Slimani and Gray. 

[HankMarvin]

they have run 30 miles less than this time last year

[Koke]

1 minute ago, HankMarvin said:

they have run 30 miles less than this time last year

 

Half of those miles have gone to Chelsea.

[Ted Maul]

18 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

they have run 30 miles less than this time last year

It's not so much the distance, it's the intensity of the running. I'm soooo bored of watching Vardy jog after defenders and allowing them to pick a pass rather than sprinting after them and forcing them to make a mistake or just hoof it upfield.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

There's a lot being said recently about tactics, formations and transfers but fundamentally we are just not doing the basic things right which resulted in so much success last season, and I struggle to see why that is as it's predominantly the same team.  A few examples:

• our back four cannot pass five yards to the midfield and they don't even look up to see if the pass is available to Drinkwater or whoever's partnering him - head stays down and it's an automatic decision to pass back to Kasper or launch it up to Vardy - Fuchs is the worst for this but all of them do it
• Drinkwater isn't taking control of the game anymore, probably as a result of low confidence (and a drop of form which he's acknowledged himself) he's shying away from the game playing three yard passes when before his injury he would start the play from the back four and ping passes all around the park, driving the team forward and unlocking defences - he's at his best when he grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and becomes the main man on the pitch.  Put simply, when Drinkwater plays well Leicester play well - we desperately need him to get back to his best
• Vardy rarely chases lost causes anymore which last year motivated the whole team to follow him forward and press high up the pitch - is this laziness or tactical?  I have no idea if he has been told to stop this because we're not a "pressing" team anymore but I struggle to believe that's the case because in the odd game where we press as a team we look dangerous (e.g. Man City who we knew would dwell on the ball)
• when we have a chance to counterattack last season we looked for a diagonal ball into space, this season we pass it back to Kasper even if we're on the halfway line - it's like Konchesky is back in the team pinging 40 yard passes back to keeper - if we do go forward it's a punt by Albrighton right down the middle which Vardy will win once in 20 attempts

A refresh of personnel, formation, style of play etc. might be needed, but if we were doing the basics right I don't think we'd be around the relegation zone. 

 

Spot on

 

formations don't win you games players do when they actually put the fvcking effort in

[STUHILL]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

There's a lot being said recently about tactics, formations and transfers but fundamentally we are just not doing the basic things right which resulted in so much success last season, and I struggle to see why that is as it's predominantly the same team.  A few examples:

• our back four cannot pass five yards to the midfield and they don't even look up to see if the pass is available to Drinkwater or whoever's partnering him - head stays down and it's an automatic decision to pass back to Kasper or launch it up to Vardy - Fuchs is the worst for this but all of them do it
• Drinkwater isn't taking control of the game anymore, probably as a result of low confidence (and a drop of form which he's acknowledged himself) he's shying away from the game playing three yard passes when before his injury he would start the play from the back four and ping passes all around the park, driving the team forward and unlocking defences - he's at his best when he grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and becomes the main man on the pitch.  Put simply, when Drinkwater plays well Leicester play well - we desperately need him to get back to his best
• Vardy rarely chases lost causes anymore which last year motivated the whole team to follow him forward and press high up the pitch - is this laziness or tactical?  I have no idea if he has been told to stop this because we're not a "pressing" team anymore but I struggle to believe that's the case because in the odd game where we press as a team we look dangerous (e.g. Man City who we knew would dwell on the ball)
• when we have a chance to counterattack last season we looked for a diagonal ball into space, this season we pass it back to Kasper even if we're on the halfway line - it's like Konchesky is back in the team pinging 40 yard passes back to keeper - if we do go forward it's a punt by Albrighton right down the middle which Vardy will win once in 20 attempts

A refresh of personnel, formation, style of play etc. might be needed, but if we were doing the basics right I don't think we'd be around the relegation zone. 

 

Totally agree with all of this and I think most will as well. My big question is, WHY?

 

.. I think Claudio is probably as confused as we are to the reasons why our defence can no longer pass, or Drinkwater is not doing any of the things that made him so good last season, or Vardy isn't pressing and chasing those lost causes, that brought him so much success and praise. I don't for one second believe that Claudio has told them not to press and to play long balls only. I just don't get why the players are playing like this and for so long now. It's infuriating. 

[psychonaut]

1 hour ago, zealot said:

I agree with most of this Babylon. He is trying things and midfield I think is key. Ndidi, Drinkwater and Mendy in the centre I'd like to see. Even if we don't score. Stop those runs through our midfield that have been plaguing us all season.

 

4-5-1 for a few games. 0-0s for a few games to just halt the leaky midfield...

 

 

I'm sorry but I'd have to disagree, this mentality is IMO one of the reasons we are so shocking right now. CR has been trying this approach since the start of the season, its completely reactive when we should be proactive. We are setting up to nullify the opposition with the prime directive to keep a clean sheet. We should be setting up to play our own game and imposing our own philosophy of football on the opposition. The system should reflect that philosophy and it should remain in place. The players are then picked to suit this way of playing and each have a role and know their roles. The recruitment would then reflect this and make a lot more sense too.

 

Instead it seems like CR is just throwing it all at the wall and seeing what sticks without any of the above. Stick together, fight, be brave and show a lot of energy are now sounding like platitudes that have no relation to anything on the pitch.

[Guest Col city fan]

Feels like everyone is missing the point.

Formations are important, but they don't win football matches. Players do.

And this lot simply do not look like they want to play for the manager or look particularly bothered at all.

Why do you think Hull have improved? Swansea? It won't be about 44 bloody 2. It'll be because the players feel refreshed working for a new boss they respect.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Just now, Col city fan said:

Feels like everyone is missing the point.

Formations are important, but they don't win football matches. Players do.

And this lot simply do not look like they want to play for the manager or look particularly bothered at all.

Why do you think Hull have improved? Swansea? It won't be about 44 bloody 2. It'll be because the players feel refreshed working for a new boss they respect.

3 posts up Col

 

ive said the same thing 

 

if our players pulled their socks up and actually tried (100 per cent effort instead of book signings and all that shit) we would get out of this mess 

[crazyleicester]

What a an absolute tosh of an article.

 

He starts by basically calling out Claudio for not going mental at the officials about a handball decision he has no control over. We have seen managers time and time again lose the plot during the post match interview as emotions run dry and they end up with anything from a fine to a touchline ban. Whats the point of Claudio or any manager losing it after the event? That has gone and he has no say on it. Claudio is trying to deal with the controllable and I for one am loving his old school way of reacting as a gentleman. A class act.

 

Then we move to tactics. One thing that some people in here have been critical of Claudio as he has tried too many different things. Sometimes a formation may remain similar but if the personnel change Ie Gray instead of Albrighton and then the style of game changes. We have tried 3 at the back and 3 in midfield, two strikers, one striker and one attacking midfielder behind. We have tried quite a few things in that quest of finding a winning formula with the players we have this season. Unfortunately, largely we have been disappointing and not much has worked. Our players are not even playing to 90% of their abilities and have been playing like shite from the start. Did that mean CR lost the dressing room before the season kicked off?!!!

 

To put a cricketing analogy on our season, it reminds me of when big Steve Harmison charged in to bowl during the ashes in Australia. It was the first ball of the series and he bowled it about ten yards wide. Thats what happened to us at Hull and we havent recovered one bit. We were the champs and all eyes were on us, they were relegation certainties with manager issues and could hardly field a team, resorting to kids on the bench and midfielders playing at the back. They beat us and it feels like its been doom and gloom ever since really. The players have been very lacklustre and they need to pull us out of the mire they have put us in.

 

Moving forward, I have no idea if CR has lost the dressing room or not but I cant see how that would be possible after last season. Players are constantly coming out talking a great game and how they are in for the fight but unfortunately their bark is a lot worse than their bite this season. Its time for us to forget what has gone on the past few months and concentrate on the positive. We are still the champions and that wont ever be taken away. We are still in the FA Cup and Champions League KOs and we still have a fighting chance of staying up. The bookies have us 6th favourites to stay up and they are usually right, well if you forget about 5000/1 donkeys that is  

[Guest Col city fan]

1 minute ago, Bob Weasel Fox said:

3 posts up Col

 

ive said the same thing 

 

if our players pulled their socks up and actually tried (100 per cent effort instead of book signings and all that shit) we would get out of this mess 

Good lad.

The fascinating thing is how so many people are looking at which of the players will stay WHEN (not if) we get relegated? There's still so much to play for, but such little belief in the manager or the players it seems.

Personally, I was expecting much more activity in the transfer window. I see Hull have sold Brady and Snodgrass...two players I'd have loved to see at City. Yet some posters claim deals 'cannot be made' in the January transfer window. There are other examples. Crystal Palace for instance, have probably made the right signings to stay up.

Not us...we have the manager and so many fans arguing that 'we are good enough to stay up, don't worry' when the evidence is completely to the contrary. Our recent run of results is shocking. And definitely reflect relegation form. 

It's just sad that it's come to having to talk like this. I'm still wondering what the Hell has gone on at the club.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

3 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Burnley play 442 just fine and make chances and win games. Problem is the work rate isn't there and the team are always set up not to lose games. Can't remember the last time we had a ten minute spell in the league where we are peppering their box with crosses and shots.

They do play 442 and it's working just as it worked for us last season.

 

Its solely down the lack of pressing and workrate that things have totally turned to shit.

 

Yes we were always going to struggle in the period with King and Amartey, but even when it's not them the rest of the team are not putting it in which they have to in that formation. Which tbf, Claudio did say months ago that they were not working hard enough.

 

I, and some others called this in September - apathy of the players (and fans; we also included the "we've won the league these players are legends forever brigade" in this) was there to see early doors, and with the calibre of player we have that always looked like an disaster waiting to happen. 

 

Even so, I confess I could not imagine what we have witnessed in the last 6 months.

 

 

[Smudge]

Groundhog Day today, seems like I have one or two each week.