Harry - LCFC Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 I watched this talk a few weeks ago and it grabbed my attention. As you may have noticed, politics has been pretty turbulent recently and this chap Steve Davies offers an explanation of what he thinks is taking place. The thesis of the talk is that the conventional left-right divide we’re used to is breaking down and being replaced by a new one. It’s 18 minutes long and worth watching in my view.
davieG Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 I seem to remember a topic where you could answer questions and it worked out were you fitted on that graph. Couldn't find the topic but I think this is the test. https://www.politicalcompass.org/test or this one http://politicaltest.net/en I think this is the topic = https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/85919-leftie-rightieor-is-it-lefty-righty-not-sure-tbh/
Claridge Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 Couldn't he of just said people are fed up with multi-cultural, left wing rubbish. The politics of the 20th century are over, the left is finished,as they have given working class people empty promises for the the last 50 years. Old style nationalism or patriotism of the 19th century would seem to be re asserting itself in the West. Probably end in a massive war in 50 years
leicsmac Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 46 minutes ago, Claridge said: Couldn't he of just said people are fed up with multi-cultural, left wing rubbish. The politics of the 20th century are over, the left is finished,as they have given working class people empty promises for the the last 50 years. Old style nationalism or patriotism of the 19th century would seem to be re asserting itself in the West. Probably end in a massive war in 50 years Given the way things seem to be accelerating on that score I would say 50 years is rather optimistic. Can understand people being disillusioned with left wing philosophy, but embracing nationalism as a response when history is pretty clear that package deal includes war and mass destruction is rather baffling. Especially now, when it's pretty likely a widespread war would end up having no winners at all.
bovril Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 12 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Given the way things seem to be accelerating on that score I would say 50 years is rather optimistic. Can understand people being disillusioned with left wing philosophy, but embracing nationalism as a response when history is pretty clear that package deal includes war and mass destruction is rather baffling. Especially now, when it's pretty likely a widespread war would end up having no winners at all. That is if you believe it's truly left-wing philosophy that people are disillusioned with.
Innovindil Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 4 hours ago, davieG said: I seem to remember a topic where you could answer questions and it worked out were you fitted on that graph. Couldn't find the topic but I think this is the test. https://www.politicalcompass.org/test or this one http://politicaltest.net/en I think this is the topic = https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/85919-leftie-rightieor-is-it-lefty-righty-not-sure-tbh/ Had a go on the first one since I was genuinely curious. Your Political Compass Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.62 Slightly left leaning. And also slightly surprised.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 1 minute ago, Innovindil said: Had a go on the first one since I was genuinely curious. Your Political Compass Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.62 Slightly left leaning. And also slightly surprised. Commie!
leicsmac Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 22 minutes ago, bovril said: That is if you believe it's truly left-wing philosophy that people are disillusioned with. That's true - the definition of such tends to vary based on who you talk to. Which doesn't really help much in debate.
Carl the Llama Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 5 hours ago, davieG said: I seem to remember a topic where you could answer questions and it worked out were you fitted on that graph. Couldn't find the topic but I think this is the test. https://www.politicalcompass.org/test or this one http://politicaltest.net/en I think this is the topic = https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/85919-leftie-rightieor-is-it-lefty-righty-not-sure-tbh/ Love these things Your Political Compass Economic Left/Right: -3.5 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.62 Which is pretty similar to last time: Economic Left/Right: -4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.95 I wonder what I answered differently...
bovril Posted 4 February 2017 Posted 4 February 2017 31 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Had a go on the first one since I was genuinely curious. Your Political Compass Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.62 Slightly left leaning. And also slightly surprised. I'm practically the same as that, just slightly more libertarian. No wonder you were surprised
somebum Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 20 hours ago, leicsmac said: Given the way things seem to be accelerating on that score I would say 50 years is rather optimistic. Can understand people being disillusioned with left wing philosophy, but embracing nationalism as a response when history is pretty clear that package deal includes war and mass destruction is rather baffling. Especially now, when it's pretty likely a widespread war would end up having no winners at all. fingers crossed
leicsmac Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 3 hours ago, somebum said: fingers crossed Well, City would go down as the last ever Prem winners, so bring it on right now I say!
The Doctor Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 Economic Left/Right: -8.5 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.59 Slightly less socially liberal than before, still as far left economically.
Stadt Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 32 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Economic Left/Right: -8.5 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.59 Slightly less socially liberal than before, still as far left economically. That's the most extreme political compass result I've ever seen
bovril Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 16 minutes ago, Wookie said: That's the most extreme political compass result I've ever seen Keepers not saving it though.
Izzy Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 Interesting test that. I'm gobsmacked at my result though
Webbo Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 I don't understand how you can be left and libertarian. How can you want to control what people earn/own, want to nationalise private property, want to ban certain newspapers and be politically correct and call yourself libertarian?
Carl the Llama Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 Just now, Webbo said: I don't understand how you can be left and libertarian. How can you want to control what people earn/own, want to nationalise private property, want to ban certain newspapers and be politically correct and call yourself libertarian? One reason is because people who are left and libertarian aren't actually composed of discordant strawman opinions. For instance in my case I want the general populace to be as unrestricted by government interference as possible (libertarian) while also acknowledging the need for government to provide support to its less fortunate individuals and apply certain necessary controls/restrictions to the free market (left) in order to prevent abuse of the system be it the formation of cartels, the marginalisation of lower income citizens, dodgy manipulation of financial products which screws up the entire system and hits the poor the hardest as their taxes bail out the culprits, some scenarios need a bit of arbitration to stop people being dicks basically. On newspapers: I don't want to ban newspapers like the Daily Mail or The Sun (I presume that's what you mean) but I certainly believe the press needs a great deal of regulation when it comes to things like information collection practices, passing off ads as reports or simply printing deliberately misleading information and how they go about publishing the inevitable corrections (ie. if the offending article was a front page attention-grabber then the resulting redaction should be equally prominent in the issue it is published, not hidden in the corner of a page towards the back that 5% of readers will notice). When it comes to hateful headlines it's usually difficult to speak out against it without being accused of jeopardising freedom of speech so it's not a minefield I particularly relish stepping into. Of course that's a fair consideration because once you start down that road you have the nightmare scenario of how exactly you define what should be locked in the Pandora's Box of unacceptable language/behaviour. It does seem to me though that there's a better argument for curtailing a newspaper's freedom of speech (in hate terms) than that of a civilian. Like I say though it's a minefield and I'm not going to begin suggesting how you'd do it properly and fairly. Of course in an ideal world I believe people should be smart enough to know that at the end of the day it's all editorial bs and to take a minute or two on the internet to verify information using alternative, preferably impartial sources. I believe that but I also know that a significant number of people are lazy and easily swayed by sensationalism hence my pie in the sky idea about the prominence of redactions in a bid to go at least some way towards redressing this.
Webbo Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 If you want to regulate the press you're not libertarian. If you want to control how people earn there living and how much they earn, as long as they're not harming anyone, you're not libertarian.
bovril Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: If you want to regulate the press you're not libertarian. If you want to control how people earn there living and how much they earn, as long as they're not harming anyone, you're not libertarian. What about if you want to control immigration?
Webbo Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 Just now, bovril said: What about if you want to control immigration? True. If you look at my chart, I'm barely in the libertarian half.
bovril Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: True. If you look at my chart, I'm barely in the libertarian half. Fair enough. Ideally I would like the state to interfere as little as possible in an individual's choices, be it religion, lifestyle choices or moving from country to country. But I'm also pragmatic enough to realise that those things might need some control or at least some kind of brake.
SMX11 Posted 5 February 2017 Posted 5 February 2017 1 minute ago, bovril said: What about if you want to control immigration? Libertarians are quite split on that issue. Most believe in the freedom of movement, but that is assuming there is no welfare state.
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