lifted*fox Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 2 minutes ago, MattP said: What I don't get is if this book is true and Trump didn't actually want to win, why did he collude with Russia to try and win? I'm of the opinion that Russia tried to collude with Trump and he got sucked into it. Russia must be absolutely ****ing killing themselves that they managed to help this ****ing idiot become POTUS. Genius move from Russia tbh. Weaken one of your biggest rival superpowers by helping the biggest chump possible into the presidency. They've had America's pants down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 4 minutes ago, MattP said: What I don't get is if this book is true and Trump didn't actually want to win, why did he collude with Russia to try and win? Yeah, that's inconsistent. Personally, I think there's a fair bit of embellishment going on there but I can totally believe the parts about the massive dysfunction in the White House once they did win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 tbqh if you look at how he behaves in public when he knows everyone is watching and has probably been briefed the **** out of by his aides it isn't that inconceivable that some of these outlandish things have been said / done behind the closed doors of the white house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, toddybad said: The other thing the book tells you (as if it weren't obvious enough just listening to the guy) is that Trump is thick as pig shit. That's got nothing to do with anything I said. 6 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: I'm of the opinion that Russia tried to collude with Trump and he got sucked into it. Russia must be absolutely ****ing killing themselves that they managed to help this ****ing idiot become POTUS. Genius move from Russia tbh. Weaken one of your biggest rival superpowers by helping the biggest chump possible into the presidency. They've had America's pants down. Definitely, as I said in the other thread, Russia can pretty much now do what they want on the World stage and everyone is looking at Trump and complaining about Twitter while they do some terrible things. What I can't work out is how a man who didn't want to win would go to these lengths to win. For what it's worth I think he was desperate to win, you wouldn't put yourself through it if you didn't. Edited 5 January 2018 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 https://twitter.com/tonyschwartz this guy spent a lot of time around Trump earlier in his life when writing a book I believe - seems to know his ego-crazy personality very well. I don't think trump ever thought he'd actually win but maybe his ego got out of control and he just kept riding the wave. nobody really thought he'd do it tbh - I guess he thought maybe he could push as hard as he wanted and he'd narrowly miss out but still have gained a huge following to fuel his ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 6 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Yeah, that's inconsistent. Personally, I think there's a fair bit of embellishment going on there but I can totally believe the parts about the massive dysfunction in the White House once they did win Possibly. I just wish I'd written it. Every book store on the East and West coast will be full of people buying this to get their Trump fix, Wolff is going to be a very wealthy man very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 2 minutes ago, MattP said: That's got nothing to do with anything I said. Definitely, as I said in the other thread, Russia can pretty much now do what they want on the World stage and everyone is looking at Trump and complaining about Twitter while they do some terrible things. What I can't work out is how a man who didn't want to win would go to these lengths to win. For what it's worth I think he was desperate to win, you wouldn't put yourself through it if you didn't. Why would a man who doesn't wants to win do something that would potentially help him win? How has the answer "because he's thick as pig shit" got nothing to do with the question? The guy's nuts. He's also arrogant as anything. Even if he didn't want to win I can imagine him still trying to win - even if just in moments - just to prove himself. If he can take Hillary down he'd love it. I just don't think he's got the grey matter to have a plan or to understand the consequences of his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 6 hours ago, Captain... said: Just checked his twitter, interesting stuff about the DOW index. Is Trump right to be taking credit for this? It does look pretty impressive. It surely has nothing to do with giving US companies a 14% tax cut (from 35 to 21 percent)... Surely less taxes can't mean more investment? But how do less taxes affect other areas, such as welfare, education and infrastructure? Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 1 minute ago, MC Prussian said: It surely has nothing to do with giving US companies a 14% tax cut (from 35 to 21 percent)... Surely less taxes can't mean more investment? But how do less taxes affect other areas, such as welfare, education and infrastructure? Hmm... The Dow increase suggests a rise in profits, not investments. Why is anybody surprised that a reduction in tax means companies are keeping more of their own money? How does this help the little man is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, MattP said: What I don't get is if this book is true and Trump didn't actually want to win, why did he collude with Russia to try and win? Hmmmm, good point. It is possible that Trump started the process “not wanting to win”. If we consider he was an outsider in the primaries and even when he won that - was viewed as a no-match to Hillary, it is conceivable that the idea of not wanting to win was floated in order to save face. But that doesn’t mean deep down Trump wanted to lose and that if he had come across “a way to win” regardless of means, he wouldn’t consider it - especially if it involved tarnishing Hilary in the process. The other important thing to remember is people say different things to different people at different times - especially evidently emotionally led people like Trump appears to be. And so it is plausable that this is something that might have been said at some point - but that the other thing could have happened. Edited 5 January 2018 by DJ Barry Hammond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 6 minutes ago, toddybad said: The Dow increase suggests a rise in profits, not investments. Why is anybody surprised that a reduction in tax means companies are keeping more of their own money? How does this help the little man is the question. The Dow is made up from 30 stocks, if the stocks rise, it means they've been invested in. Companies attract more money. Where does that money come from? It's only natural to suggest it's money that wasn't available before. I fully agree with your notion about the common people. Hence my comment on fewer taxes and its effects on other areas in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 11 minutes ago, toddybad said: Why would a man who doesn't wants to win do something that would potentially help him win? How has the answer "because he's thick as pig shit" got nothing to do with the question? I was looking for a little more critical thinking, he's thick so he won the presidency despite not wanting to do so isn't really logical. You can hardly criticise the dopey wanting to lead countries anyway as Corbyn's biggest cheerleader, a bloke who left school with two E grades, didn't know Scotland had a separate legal system and thought Thailand was an Islamic country. He makes Trump look like Einstein at times and would embarrass us with Nambia type quotes given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 4 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Hmmmm, good point. It is possible that Trump started the process “not wanting to win”. If we consider he was an outsider in the primaries and even when he won that - was viewed as a no-match to Hillary, it is conceivable that the idea of not wanting to win was floated in order to save face. But that doesn’t mean deep down Trump wanted to lose and that if he had come across “a way to win” regardless of means, he wouldn’t consider it - especially if it involved tarnishing Hilary in the process. The other important thing to remember is people say different things to different people at different times - especially evidently emotionally led people like Trump appears to be. And so it is plausable that this is something that might have been said at some point - but that the other thing could have happened. The extract I read today said on the day of the win Trump was upset looking like a ghost and Melania was in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 9 minutes ago, toddybad said: The Dow increase suggests a rise in profits, not investments. Why is anybody surprised that a reduction in tax means companies are keeping more of their own money? How does this help the little man is the question. No American business has been doing well... but probably has more to do with Trump making the world seem a less stable place / maintaining military spend - a big area of US business. He’s also made a lot of anti-climate change moves / released areas for drilling etc - which is going to up share prices of these companies. The tax cuts will kick in over the next 3-6 months too... so he ain’t thick as pig shit, far from it. emotionally unstable - i’d give you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 8 minutes ago, MC Prussian said: The Dow is made up from 30 stocks, if the stocks rise, it means they've been invested in. Companies attract more money. Where does that money come from? It's only natural to suggest it's money that wasn't available before. I fully agree with your notion about the common people. Hence my comment on fewer taxes and its effects on other areas in the grand scheme of things. Unless I'm missing something about the dow the value of the shares of a publicly owned company doesn't mean that company necessarily see any of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 10 minutes ago, MattP said: I was looking for a little more critical thinking, he's thick so he won the presidency despite not wanting to do so isn't really logical. You can hardly criticise the dopey wanting to lead countries anyway as Corbyn's biggest cheerleader, a bloke who left school with two E grades, didn't know Scotland had a separate legal system and thought Thailand was an Islamic country. He makes Trump look like Einstein at times and would embarrass us with Nambia type quotes given the chance. You should come back to the politics that Matty. It isn't the same without you talking horses### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 2 minutes ago, MattP said: The extract I read today said on the day of the win Trump was upset looking like a ghost and Melania was in tears. I read the same extract - now, I think that was reasonably true. Thats shock - even if he ‘believed’ he could win, there would be some inner self doubt (however well hidden) given the conventional thinking. Its also worth remembering he’d attempted to deflect from possible defeat beforehand by suggesting a rigged vote. And - if there was anyone close to him he was likely to say “I don’t want to win to” and on the reverse didn’t want to win - it would have to be Melina wouldn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 The tax cuts are brilliant policy short term, people love more money in their pockets, it's an outrageous figure to add to a national debt though, feel sorry for those who'll pay it off in the future as I can't see it being as cost effective long term as he thinks. I've not followed this thread until today, did they get mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 12 minutes ago, MattP said: The tax cuts are brilliant policy short term, people love more money in their pockets, it's an outrageous figure to add to a national debt though, feel sorry for those who'll pay it off in the future as I can't see it being as cost effective long term as he thinks. I've not followed this thread until today, did they get mentioned? Sure they did... did you see the scribbled and amended last minute version the Republicans had to use to get it through one of the houses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 18 minutes ago, MattP said: The tax cuts are brilliant policy short term, people love more money in their pockets, it's an outrageous figure to add to a national debt though, feel sorry for those who'll pay it off in the future as I can't see it being as cost effective long term as he thinks. I've not followed this thread until today, did they get mentioned? The tax cuts as a package is one of the most unpopular tax reforms America's ever seen. Though, granted, nobody will complain about their individual tax bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 4 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Sure they did... did you see the scribbled and amended last minute version the Republicans had to use to get it through one of the houses! I didn't read it in that much depth but I can imagine given the time it took to get it done, Paul Ryan probably had more input than him by the end. Still an achievement mind to get significant tax reform through, the most impressive part of his tenure so far (which isn't saying much) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: The tax cuts as a package is one of the most unpopular tax reforms America's ever seen. Well of course, if Trump secured World peace tomorrow it would be unpopular. That's where we are with the whole thing still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 10 minutes ago, MattP said: I didn't read it in that much depth but I can imagine given the time it took to get it done, Paul Ryan probably had more input than him by the end. Still an achievement mind to get significant tax reform through, the most impressive part of his tenure so far (which isn't saying much) It is, especially as I’m sure recalling some measures included as part of the bill weren’t exactly popular amongst the traditional Republican Party. And although it will be viewed as ‘unpopular’ given the objection to the bill in certain quarters... it is probably quite popular elsewhere in country, it’s just that it wouldn’t be very comfortable for those benefiting to sing and shout about it. That and other policy positions does make it interesting for the next incoming President - whoever and whenever that may be, because they’ll have a pretty awkward base to start from. It’s almost be as bad as gaining power after a closely fought referendum vote, the result of which requires one to govern through the most significant, wide ranging change known to that country for over 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 14 minutes ago, MattP said: Well of course, if Trump secured World peace tomorrow it would be unpopular. That's where we are with the whole thing still. Tbf the media fall over themselves to say "this is the moment Trump became presidential" every time he successfully ties his own shoelaces so they might give him that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theessexfox Posted 5 January 2018 Share Posted 5 January 2018 49 minutes ago, toddybad said: You should come back to the politics that Matty. It isn't the same without you talking horses### Can't you stop this? It's so boring I'd rather just normal conversations about actual politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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