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Vacamion

President Trump & the USA

By Vacamion, in General Chat

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Carl the Llama

Carl the Llama

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, toddybad said:

 

 

US will 'take names of those who vote to reject Jerusalem recognition'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/20/us-take-names-united-nations-vote-to-reject-jerusalem-recognition?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

It's like the USA want to be Ozymandias' alien squid.

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DJ Barry Hammond

DJ Barry Hammond

Posted
Posted
On 19/12/2017 at 18:28, The Doctor said:

lol plausible? He's a loon, but destroying the earth to shag his daughter? 

 

Make your own mind up based on previous comments from Trump... 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-ivanka-trump-creepiest-most-unsettling-comments-a-roundup-a7353876.html

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2017 at 15:36, leicsmac said:

UN General Assembly not in the mood to listen to Nikki Haley all that much then:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42446027

...and Miss Haley and the administration being like a child who has been told "no" for the first time:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-cut-un-funding-285m-donald-trump-nikki-haley-jerusalem-a8128426.html

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
On 27/12/2017 at 14:22, leicsmac said:

...and Miss Haley and the administration being like a child who has been told "no" for the first time:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-cut-un-funding-285m-donald-trump-nikki-haley-jerusalem-a8128426.html

If you think about what it's done on climate change, nuclear threats and Jerusalem, it's clear that the U.S. has become a rogue state over the last year.

I so wish the UK were aligning with the EU rather than pushing it away right now.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, toddybad said:

If you think about what it's done on climate change, nuclear threats and Jerusalem, it's clear that the U.S. has become a rogue state over the last year.

I so wish the UK were aligning with the EU rather than pushing it away right now.

If you're using the strict dictionary adjective definition, then rogue does fit tbh, though I wouldn't use the term rogue state as that implies they don't have much pull in the international community, when the US really does - even if it is running counter to the rest of the world.

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

This has to be the most stunningly obtuse thing ever said by a World leader:

 

"In the East, it could be the COLDEST New Year’s Eve on record. Perhaps we could use a little bit of that good old Global Warming that our Country, but not other countries, was going to pay TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS to protect against. Bundle up!"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/29/donald-trump-good-old-global-warming-us-winter

 

I suppose I'll get shit and faux outrage from his apologists for this, but I would rejoice at his assassination.

Edited by Buce
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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Buce said:

 

This has to be the most stunningly obtuse thing ever said by a World leader:

 

"In the East, it could be the COLDEST New Year’s Eve on record. Perhaps we could use a little bit of that good old Global Warming that our Country, but not other countries, was going to pay TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS to protect against. Bundle up!"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/29/donald-trump-good-old-global-warming-us-winter

 

I suppose I'll get shit and faux outrage from his apologists for this, but I would rejoice at his assassination.

It's just playing to the crowd - most of his supporters wear their ignorance regarding environmental matters as a badge of honour so this will go down well with them.

 

And don't worry, the ballot box and/or impeachment will see to him and this administration soon enough - hopefully before too much damage can be done regarding environmental matters. It's a good thing that such things tend to move faster than environmental changes tbh.

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

It's just playing to the crowd - most of his supporters wear their ignorance regarding environmental matters as a badge of honour so this will go down well with them.

 

And don't worry, the ballot box and/or impeachment will see to him and this administration soon enough - hopefully before too much damage can be done regarding environmental matters. It's a good thing that such things tend to move faster than environmental changes tbh.

 

I sincerely hope you are right, Mac.

 

I see Trump as the biggest threat to World peace and, by extension, the planet itself.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I sincerely hope you are right, Mac.

 

I see Trump as the biggest threat to World peace and, by extension, the planet itself.

 

In terms of causing long-term damage at will, I'd certainly agree that this administration (not just Trump himself) are the greatest threat to the habitability of the planet right now (yes, I *know* that China and India aren't playing ball on that score either but they're not in denial about the whole thing and are at least trying to fix it), but not entirely sure about the world peace part - apart from their ability to respond in devastating fashion, of course.

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

In terms of causing long-term damage at will, I'd certainly agree that this administration (not just Trump himself) are the greatest threat to the habitability of the planet right now (yes, I *know* that China and India aren't playing ball on that score either but they're not in denial about the whole thing and are at least trying to fix it), but not entirely sure about the world peace part - apart from their ability to respond in devastating fashion, of course.

 

America is the greatest military and economic entity on the planet, currently lead by a man who is notoriously short-tempered and vindictive, who is arguably mentally unstable, and clearly disturbingly obtuse; add to that that he has already implied that his 'solution' to the NK problem may be a nuclear one, has began sabre rattling at Iran, has stirred the pot in the Middle East by recognising Jerusalem, has vastly increased military spending (particularly on nukes, despite already having enough to destroy the planet several times over) then, yes, I stand by my assertion that he is the biggest threat to World peace.

 

 

 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

America is the greatest military and economic entity on the planet, currently lead by a man who is notoriously short-tempered and vindictive, who is arguably mentally unstable, and clearly disturbingly obtuse; add to that that he has already implied that his 'solution' to the NK problem may be a nuclear one, has began sabre rattling at Iran, has stirred the pot in the Middle East by recognising Jerusalem, has vastly increased military spending (particularly on nukes, despite already having enough to destroy the planet several times over) then, yes, I stand by my assertion that he is the biggest threat to World peace.

 

 

 

You make a convincing argument (one that I mostly was agreeing with beforehand in any case) and in terms of both overall firepower and likelihood of using that firepower in a widespread fashion the US is number 1 amongst the leading global players, I would think.

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Merging Cultures

Merging Cultures

Posted
Posted
On 15/12/2017 at 16:01, toddybad said:

Trump turning US into 'world champion of extreme inequality', UN envoy warns

Special rapporteur Philip Alston, fresh from fact-finding tour, issues devastating critique of US society and condemns ‘private wealth and public squalor’

Philip Alston visits a homeless camp in Downtown LA. Alston said: ‘The persistence of extreme poverty is a political choice made by those in power. With political will, it could readily be eliminated.’
 

Philip Alston visits a homeless camp in Downtown LA. Alston said: ‘The persistence of extreme poverty is a political choice made by those in power. With political will, it could readily be eliminated.’Photograph: Dan Tuffs

d6afea302a9dd0f1f8d5035aeab5df22?width=4Ed Pilkington in Washington

Published:18:45 GMT+00:00 Fri 15 December 2017

 Follow Ed Pilkington
 

The United Nations monitor on poverty and human rights has issued a devastating report on the condition of America, accusing Donald Trump and the Republican leadership in Congress of attempting to turn the country into the “world champion of extreme inequality”.

A journey through a land of extreme poverty: welcome to America

Philip Alston, the UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, has completed a two-week official tour of the US by releasing an excoriating attack on the direction of the nation. Not only does he warn that the tax bill currently being rushed through Congress will hugely increase already large disparities between rich and poor, he accuses Trump and his party of consciously distorting the shape of American society in a “bid to become the most unequal society in the world”.

“American exceptionalism was a constant theme in my conversations,” he writes. “But instead of realizing its founders’ admirable commitments, today’s United States has proved itself to be exceptional in far more problematic ways that are shockingly at odds with its immense wealth and its founding commitment to human rights. As a result, contrasts between private wealth and public squalor abound.”

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In his most stark message, Alston warns that the Republicans’ declared intent to slash crucial welfare programs next year in order to pay for some of the $1.5tn tax cuts could cost American lives. “The consequences for an already overstretched and inadequate system of social protection are likely to be fatal for many programs, and possibly also for those who rely upon them,” he writes.

The American Dream is rapidly becoming the American Illusion

Philip Alston, UN special rapporteur

Alston’s piercing findings present the Trump administration with a challenge. The charge that the US president is actively seeking to harm millions of Americans may be difficult to ignore, given that the report carries the imprimatur of the UN human rights council in Geneva.

Trump has frequently been dismissive of the world body, complaining during the 2016 presidential campaign that “we get nothing out of the United Nations other than good real-estate prices”. But he has also shown himself to have a thin skin when it comes to criticism of him or his administration. At a press conference launching his preliminary report in Washington, Alston quipped about possible Trump reaction: “I’m hoping for a tweet”.

Bernie Sanders, the US senator who has led the debate on inequality, has waded into the fray. He met the UN monitor on Friday and sounded his own alarm about the future of the country.

Sanders said that as the “wealthiest country in the history of the world” the US should be providing a model in how to treat all of its citizens with dignity. “Sadly that is not the case. We are moving into 2018 – we should not be living in a country with 41 million people living in poverty and so many more in extreme poverty, and nobody even talks about it.”

Alston invited Paul Ryan to meet him but was told the Republican speaker of the House was too busy.

LA resident Ressy, who is homeless. Alston will produce a final report next May, which will then go before the UN human rights council.
LA resident Ressy, who is homeless. Alston will produce a final report next May, which will then go before the UN human rights council. Photograph: Dan Tuffs

In his 15-day fact-finding mission, Alston, an Australian academic and law professor at New York University, visited Los Angeles and San Francisco, Alabama, Georgia, Puerto Rico and West Virginia, talking to low-income families as well as governmental officials. He will produce a final report next May and that in turn will go before the UN human rights council.

Alston takes a strip out of the US for what he suggests are its double standards over human rights. The Trump administration, in line with previous US governments, preaches about human rights to other countries while refusing to be bound itself by international rules.

“The US is alone among developed countries in insisting that while human rights are of fundamental importance, they do not include rights that guard against dying of hunger, dying from a lack of access to affordable healthcare, or growing up in a context of total deprivation. But denial does not eliminate responsibility or negate obligations.”

Alston is also scathing about the attitudes of some of the politicians and officials he met on his tour, who subscribe to what he calls the caricature of rich people as industrious and entrepreneurial and poor people as “wasters, losers and scammers”.

He writes: “Some politicians and political appointees with whom I spoke were completely sold on the narrative of such scammers sitting on comfortable sofas, watching color TVs, while surfing on their smartphones, all paid for by welfare. I wonder how many of these politicians have ever visited poor areas, let alone spoken to those who dwell there.”

Inequality is not inevitable – but the US 'experiment' is a recipe for divergence

At the press conference, Alston said that current US trends were undermining democracy. “Democracy is the foundation stone upon which this country is built, the contribution of which it has been most proud internationally. And yet what we see is the lowest voter turnouts in any developed country.”

He pointed to the disenfranchisement of former prisoners, as well as covert voter suppression efforts such as the imposition of voter ID requirements as examples of the way the political rights of low-income people were being eroded.

Latest figures put the number of Americans living in poverty at 41 million – almost 13% of the population. Of those, almost half (19 million) are living in deep poverty, defined as having a total family income that is below one-half of the poverty threshold.

In a report packed with depressing evidence, the UN rapporteur tries to give a positive spin to his findings, saying that with the wealth that abounds in the US the country is in a position to solve its poverty and inequality crisis. “The persistence of extreme poverty is a political choice made by those in power. With political will, it could readily be eliminated.”

In a phrase that might reverberate around Capitol Hill and the White House, Alston concludes: “The American Dream is rapidly becoming the American Illusion since the US now has the lowest rate of social mobility of any of the rich countries.”

Not happening in just one year. When I lived there, prior to and during the 'financial crisis' this was happening. 

 

Obama certainly was doing his best to make it better. I don't see the orange turd getting close.

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breadandcheese

breadandcheese

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Buce said:

 

America is the greatest military and economic entity on the planet, currently lead by a man who is notoriously short-tempered and vindictive, who is arguably mentally unstable, and clearly disturbingly obtuse; add to that that he has already implied that his 'solution' to the NK problem may be a nuclear one, has began sabre rattling at Iran, has stirred the pot in the Middle East by recognising Jerusalem, has vastly increased military spending (particularly on nukes, despite already having enough to destroy the planet several times over) then, yes, I stand by my assertion that he is the biggest threat to World peace.

 

 

 

I'm going to offer a counter, not because I think Trump is particularly good (I really don't) but that the jury is still out for me. 

 

On climate change, he's wrong and there's no defence. You have to trust experts and they're telling us which way we should be heading. 

 

On North Korea, I'm worried by his approach but can see the rationale and wonder whether it is showing some sprouts of growth from the seeds of his policy. There's no denying that the previous policy of marginalisation and attempted containment by Obama over the last 8 years, has failed dismally. North Korea stands on the brink of producing an ICBM with re-entry systems capable of delivering a nuclear warhead. This is some serious technology and not some backward nation. The worry is that Iran follow NK's approach or that NK proliferate the tech around the world (I believe NK scientists were helping Syria's nuclear programme and died when the incomplete reactor was bombed by Israel).

 

There is very little the US can do itself, despite all the bluster of Trump. However, there are reports that China is building huge refugee camps on its border with NK, which I see as a positive step and possible glimmer of hope, in that it shows China is preparing for a possible regime change. So maybe there is some movement behind the scenes in getting China to be prepared to do more.

 

On the issue of Jerusalem, it all seems like an overblown load of nonsense. Moving the US embassy to West Jerusalem is only an issue to those seeking to make political capital. West Jerusalem is undisputed territory. It was part of Israel in 1948 and is not part of the occupied territories of 1967. Russia recognised West Jerusalem earlier this year and there were no protests. All diplomats go to West Jerusalem when they go on diplomatic missions so West Jerusalem is recognised as the de facto capital, even if it's not said. 

 

I appreciate some will say that Trump has gone further saying all of Jerusalem is Israel's capital (which I think he deliberately used obfuscating language) but in his speech, he made a clear mention that it is up to final negotiations as to the borders of Jerusalem saying:

 

We are not taking a position of any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.  Those questions are up to the parties involved.

 

This is very similar to what was said in the UN resolution. So I'm not sure why, other than grandstanding on a sixth form level by participants of the UN, that it should make any difference to a stagnant and stalled/non existent peace process.

 

In terms of the rest of the Middle East, the key policy is Saudi and the new Crown Prince. So far the seeds of this look promising, in terms of the ambition and plans for the country, which has the potential to change the Middle East. Although there's no ignoring the horrors in Yemen.  It may be a case or real politik, turning a blind eye to this if other goals are to be reached, shaping the future of the region. 

 

So for me, the jury is still out, with a few signs of possible success. I will agree that the chances of these shoots of success growing into big achievements is slim, due to Trump's character, but I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to decide. 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
On 12/29/2017 at 16:27, breadandcheese said:

I'm going to offer a counter, not because I think Trump is particularly good (I really don't) but that the jury is still out for me. 

 

On climate change, he's wrong and there's no defence. You have to trust experts and they're telling us which way we should be heading. 

 

On North Korea, I'm worried by his approach but can see the rationale and wonder whether it is showing some sprouts of growth from the seeds of his policy. There's no denying that the previous policy of marginalisation and attempted containment by Obama over the last 8 years, has failed dismally. North Korea stands on the brink of producing an ICBM with re-entry systems capable of delivering a nuclear warhead. This is some serious technology and not some backward nation. The worry is that Iran follow NK's approach or that NK proliferate the tech around the world (I believe NK scientists were helping Syria's nuclear programme and died when the incomplete reactor was bombed by Israel).

 

There is very little the US can do itself, despite all the bluster of Trump. However, there are reports that China is building huge refugee camps on its border with NK, which I see as a positive step and possible glimmer of hope, in that it shows China is preparing for a possible regime change. So maybe there is some movement behind the scenes in getting China to be prepared to do more.

 

On the issue of Jerusalem, it all seems like an overblown load of nonsense. Moving the US embassy to West Jerusalem is only an issue to those seeking to make political capital. West Jerusalem is undisputed territory. It was part of Israel in 1948 and is not part of the occupied territories of 1967. Russia recognised West Jerusalem earlier this year and there were no protests. All diplomats go to West Jerusalem when they go on diplomatic missions so West Jerusalem is recognised as the de facto capital, even if it's not said. 

 

I appreciate some will say that Trump has gone further saying all of Jerusalem is Israel's capital (which I think he deliberately used obfuscating language) but in his speech, he made a clear mention that it is up to final negotiations as to the borders of Jerusalem saying:

 

We are not taking a position of any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.  Those questions are up to the parties involved.

 

This is very similar to what was said in the UN resolution. So I'm not sure why, other than grandstanding on a sixth form level by participants of the UN, that it should make any difference to a stagnant and stalled/non existent peace process.

 

In terms of the rest of the Middle East, the key policy is Saudi and the new Crown Prince. So far the seeds of this look promising, in terms of the ambition and plans for the country, which has the potential to change the Middle East. Although there's no ignoring the horrors in Yemen.  It may be a case or real politik, turning a blind eye to this if other goals are to be reached, shaping the future of the region. 

 

So for me, the jury is still out, with a few signs of possible success. I will agree that the chances of these shoots of success growing into big achievements is slim, due to Trump's character, but I'm prepared to wait a bit longer to decide. 

Should have responded to this sooner, but a very nuanced post.

 

Only thing I might add is that I don't think there's much risk of the NK's proliferating nuclear tech or material (as a government, anyway) simply because it's not difficult to trace such things back to them should one actually then be used.

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