Darkon84 Posted 20 June 2017 Share Posted 20 June 2017 1 hour ago, toddybad said: Sorry but i pay £123 per month towards my student loan, which was on the early, much better repayment terms than loans now and i don't earn that much more than average wage. The t&cs are much worse than they were when i got my loan between 1998 and 2002. The knock on effect is that i don't pay into the nhs pension scheme which is a further 9.5-12% of earnings. I simply can't afford 20% of my earnings going on loan and pension payments on top of tax and ni and i have it much better than the kids today. Yes, and imo it's better to have the state take the brunt for education than the poor sods expected to begin their adult life with massive debt. I'm sorry you feel that you're being screwed on your repayments, but the current situation isn't bad at all. The current threshold to start repaying is 21k per year which I think is more than reasonable. I had to start paying mine back on the older scheme which had 17k as the threshold, so by comparison, the current limit certainly is favourable and isn't harsh at all. Having to pay back £30 per month on on a salary of £25k per year for current students is not killing them or ever the top at all. At £30k per year, the repayment is still under £70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 20 June 2017 Share Posted 20 June 2017 2 hours ago, daz*dsb said: I feel it'd also help if young people had a better range of options presented to them at 16 (GCSE) and 18 (A-Level) completion time. So many young people opt for university life because they haven't been presented with the full range of work prospects early enough. When I was 18 and just finishing A-Levels the school were desperately trying to funnel as many people into uni as possible because higher numbers leaving for uni means higher funding. I needed to know more about work opportunities, apprenticeships - other options. If I'd have gone to uni (which I didn't) it'd have purely been to delay the oncoming unknown of 'where to go next in life'. I know many people that went to uni for this reason and ended up dropping out after the first year. University should be something that is reserved for people who go there with purpose - that's not to say it should be restricted to aspiring lawyers, doctors, nurses, vets, etc. etc. but I think if you're going to uni and it's going to be government funded then you should have a coherent plan of why you want to go and what you plan to achieve with your degree. Uni shouldn't be full of young wasters who went along for the crack, to get out of home and because they didn't know what job to go into. There needs to be greater support from employers, companies who have the capacity to take young people on and train them so that not everyone leaving school is heading off to uni. Companies should have funding to take young people on and train them as well. Is work experience still a thing? Bit of a jumbled post but you get the idea. I'm all for government funded education but let's make sure it's being used properly and that those who don't need university have a wealth of other job prospects open to them at the time they leave school. Fully agree with this. The problem is (or certainly was in my experience just over a decade ago) that schools are interested solely in pushing pupils into uni because it makes their stats look good. Whether it's the right thing or not for each child didn't matter a bit. Once you were past 16, the assumption was made that you were off there and everything was geared towards that. It's a shocking attitude really and I feel it's let a lot of kids down. Also, universities now offer such a diverse range of courses that companies often don't need to spend the money on in-house apprenticeships/training etc because the education sector is willing to do that for them. Certain courses are a goldmine for unis despite some of them having terrible employability rates and not even offering the right qualifications as part of the course. But why would firms be bothered about that when they can just take the pick of the graduates from said courses who are the brightest and best AND have the necessary qualifications at the end of it? Sod the rest. I work in a career which I would have been able to begin straight from school 20/30 years ago, but barely anywhere offers in-house training in that profession any longer because the HE sector has taken on responsibility for it. As a result, the backgrounds of those working in the industry is becoming less and less diverse due to the affordability of getting the necessary training becoming unreasonably expensive for many. It's a crying shame. Private firms aren't going to suddenly return to the previous status quo without some kind of financial incentive, and universities won't give up their cash cow, so some state support either in the reduction of fees or offering more aid to companies taking on apprentices is going to be the only way to reverse that trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 June 2017 Share Posted 20 June 2017 20 minutes ago, Darkon84 said: I'm sorry you feel that you're being screwed on your repayments, but the current situation isn't bad at all. The current threshold to start repaying is 21k per year which I think is more than reasonable. I had to start paying mine back on the older scheme which had 17k as the threshold, so by comparison, the current limit certainly is favourable and isn't harsh at all. Having to pay back £30 per month on on a salary of £25k per year for current students is not killing them or ever the top at all. At £30k per year, the repayment is still under £70. I think the threshold was around the £20k mark - im not sure exactly where - when i graduated. But my repayments are only 6% not the 9% expected now. Plus, I'm actually paying off £1k per year from my loan.that's because the interest rate was really low attached to my loan - i think base rate+1. My work colleague graduated 7 years later than me. He has twice the debt but because interest rates are now more like commercial rates (and surely even if you agree with student loans you can't agree with then being at commercial rates?!) he's only clearing about £100 a year from his loan. That change in interest rates is what makes things altogether worse as there is no n prospect of ever not paying what effectively becomes a tax for many graduates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkon84 Posted 20 June 2017 Share Posted 20 June 2017 10 minutes ago, toddybad said: I think the threshold was around the £20k mark - im not sure exactly where - when i graduated. But my repayments are only 6% not the 9% expected now. Plus, I'm actually paying off £1k per year from my loan.that's because the interest rate was really low attached to my loan - i think base rate+1. My work colleague graduated 7 years later than me. He has twice the debt but because interest rates are now more like commercial rates (and surely even if you agree with student loans you can't agree with then being at commercial rates?!) he's only clearing about £100 a year from his loan. That change in interest rates is what makes things altogether worse as there is no n prospect of ever not paying what effectively becomes a tax for many graduates. Yea the interest on mine is 1.25% which is something I can accept, but I'll agree with you that the current schemes interest rate is over the top. Inflation plus (up to) 3% (depending on income etc) isn't particularly fair. They can say they're trying to counter the fact the repayments themselves are relatively low and the repayments don't start until a higher wage bracket, but the interest is out of order. I do get your point of view, now I've thought about it a bit more from your angle and can see why people could be upset by it, but overall I still don't think the repayments are a huge problem and could still be paid back if managed correctly (which I certainly haven't done yet ). I don't think we'll agree on this subject, but at least I can see where you're coming from better, now you've explained further than you were doing before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 20 June 2017 Share Posted 20 June 2017 Back on topic.... I did read a few pages back something I agree with. We want a good deal with the EU but if they offer us the following: 1. UK Exports 5% tarrif 2. EU Imports tarrif free 3. Have to comply with EU Laws 4. Have to contribute to EU budget 5. We loose Euro clearing business That would be a bad deal and we would possibly be better under WTO rules, lets not forget we buy a lot of European products and I am sure that we can get these from other places, we need to make that clear and play hard ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 June 2017 Share Posted 20 June 2017 53 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Back on topic.... I did read a few pages back something I agree with. We want a good deal with the EU but if they offer us the following: 1. UK Exports 5% tarrif 2. EU Imports tarrif free 3. Have to comply with EU Laws 4. Have to contribute to EU budget 5. We loose Euro clearing business That would be a bad deal and we would possibly be better under WTO rules, lets not forget we buy a lot of European products and I am sure that we can get these from other places, we need to make that clear and play hard ball. Let's be honest, this whole thing is a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 20 June 2017 Share Posted 20 June 2017 13 hours ago, Innovindil said: We can't even shape ourselves. How exactly are you expecting us to shape the world? Why can't we shape ourselves? Who are these dastardly rascals we should blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 Is this true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 It 15 hours ago, toddybad said: Let's be honest, this whole thing is a nightmare. It is really. My preference is to forget the whole thing and stay in but I can see that at least 52% of the population want otherwise. So democracy wins. The trouble is its rather pointless remaining in the customs union and or single market as we would have to comply with the same laws and conditions we do now but we have no say over them and still have to contribute probably more than we do with the rebate to the EU. Its a silly move, there is absolutely no point leaving the EU to remain part of the single market. Whether there is appetite for another kind of deal who knows? It depends on how valuable EU exports to the UK are I suppose. We are a big consumer market and one of the biggest economies in the world so obviously they have to consider that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 21 June 2017 Author Share Posted 21 June 2017 2 hours ago, lgfualol said: Is this true Yes http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_2.1.3.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 36 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Yes http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_2.1.3.html Wow. And I imagine the Tories didnt mention it because it would make them look bad.. Dupe of the century! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 2 minutes ago, lgfualol said: Wow. And I imagine the Tories didnt mention it because it would make them look bad.. Dupe of the century! Im not sure why, it's not migrants out of work in benefits that are a huge issue. It's in work low skilled migrants (usually also claiming in work benefits) suppressing wages and stifling progress. This information has been around a while, it's nothing new, it's not a Tory dupe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 21 June 2017 Author Share Posted 21 June 2017 6 minutes ago, lgfualol said: Wow. And I imagine the Tories didnt mention it because it would make them look bad.. Dupe of the century! Errr... Labour didn't do it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 21 June 2017 Author Share Posted 21 June 2017 1 minute ago, Strokes said: Im not sure why, it's not migrants out of work in benefits that are a huge issue. It's in work low skilled migrants (usually also claiming in work benefits) suppressing wages and stifling progress. This information has been around a while, it's nothing new, it's not a Tory dupe. That's the common held thought, but does the evidence fully back this up? It might well be the drop in drop in productivity levels across the UK, that is really holding wages down - because if you have to pay more people to earn a comfortable profit, there is less scope to provide a pay rise across the board. Efficencies and new machinery are the way towards increased productivity - but as a country, I find we're very poor at recognising these opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 21 June 2017 Author Share Posted 21 June 2017 20 minutes ago, lgfualol said: Wow. And I imagine the Tories didnt mention it because it would make them look bad.. Dupe of the century! http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/05/freedom-movement-didnt-start-eu-its-norm-britain Found this, which i thought puts an interesting prospective on things. I think one of the key things many forget or perhaps don't know about when considering various subjects around immigration is the United Kingdom's history... I won't pretend to be an expert on this in anyway, but when you realise quite how wide the British Empire and its colonies was it begins to give you a different perspective on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 I get the feeling,a strong one at that as I have no factual evidence but both government and businesses are obsessed with short term improvements/profits over the longer term benefits to society and business in general. Politicians have no guarantee of longevity in a ruling mode and business seem to be run by executives that are on their on the way up as they flit from one business to another. I think this is why in the short term, don't I look successful/clever at my job execs cut work forces to gain immediate savings/increase in profits. I've certainly been deeply involved in a situation where I've been both party to this and suffered from it. I was actually made redundant along with a group of 50 year olds because at that time you could take your company pension early but 2 of those people were back at the business within 3 months as they realised they where the only ones with the qualifications/authority to approve certain aspects of the business, suggesting that those at the top shedding people didn't understand the business they were managing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 3 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/05/freedom-movement-didnt-start-eu-its-norm-britain Found this, which i thought puts an interesting prospective on things. I think one of the key things many forget or perhaps don't know about when considering various subjects around immigration is the United Kingdom's history... I won't pretend to be an expert on this in anyway, but when you realise quite how wide the British Empire and its colonies was it begins to give you a different perspective on things. Aye and I've never really understood this obsession with EU immigrants because we've many more still coming from old British Colonies and seeming plenty from countries we've never been involved with. It's certainly not why I voted for Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 30 minutes ago, Strokes said: Im not sure why, it's not migrants out of work in benefits that are a huge issue. It's in work low skilled migrants (usually also claiming in work benefits) suppressing wages and stifling progress. This information has been around a while, it's nothing new, it's not a Tory dupe. Maybe I rushed my judgement and maybe dupe wasnt the right word.. I never saw anything about this around the brexit campaign though and I tried to keep myself informed. The last couple years in British politics have been a bit mental. It's also far too warm today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 21 June 2017 Author Share Posted 21 June 2017 5 minutes ago, lgfualol said: Maybe I rushed my judgement and maybe dupe wasnt the right word.. I never saw anything about this around the brexit campaign though and I tried to keep myself informed. The last couple years in British politics have been a bit mental. It's also far too warm today. Campaigns will only tell you want they want you to hear and tend to only cover a small area of 'interest'. You have to go well outside of that bubble to get a greater prospective, but it is difficult and can be almost like a full time job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 21 June 2017 Author Share Posted 21 June 2017 20 minutes ago, davieG said: Aye and I've never really understood this obsession with EU immigrants because we've many more still coming from old British Colonies and seeming plenty from countries we've never been involved with. It's certainly not why I voted for Brexit. Well there's also the terroism aspect at play with British history - and that's not to excuse any actions of terroists of course, but you do then begin to understand how a deep seated resentment of this land could have built up over centuries and been passed on through generations to get to where we are... and how much of a challenge it will be to turn the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 43 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Efficencies and new machinery are the way towards increased productivity - but as a country, I find we're very poor at recognising these opportunities. The interesting thing is the more efficient we become potentially the less employment opportunity there is! so its a bit of a catch 22 situation! 4 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Well there's also the terroism aspect at play with British history - and that's not to excuse any actions of terroists of course, but you do then begin to understand how a deep seated resentment of this land could have built up over centuries and been passed on through generations to get to where we are... and how much of a challenge it will be to turn the other way. Although this is part of our history, we also brought to the world many good things and led the world in the push for civil liberties so overall it evens out. There were many countries with empires that don't tend to beat themselves up about it as much as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 1 hour ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: That's the common held thought, but does the evidence fully back this up? It might well be the drop in drop in productivity levels across the UK, that is really holding wages down - because if you have to pay more people to earn a comfortable profit, there is less scope to provide a pay rise across the board. Efficencies and new machinery are the way towards increased productivity - but as a country, I find we're very poor at recognising these opportunities. I'm sure those things have contributed but it's very basic economics that if things are in short supply, they are more valuable. Also the motivation to train from within to keep 'valuable' employees is reduced. This is reflected by the fact that wages in real terms are lowering, and people are not staying in jobs for as long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 1 hour ago, davieG said: Aye and I've never really understood this obsession with EU immigrants because we've many more still coming from old British Colonies and seeming plenty from countries we've never been involved with. It's certainly not why I voted for Brexit. It's easier for politicians to talk about EU migration as, unlike non EU, we can't control it. Also migrants from commonwealth countries can vote in GEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 21 June 2017 Share Posted 21 June 2017 38 minutes ago, Webbo said: Technically inaccurate unless 100% of "Brits" took part in the poll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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