Is it coz I is black?

[Samilktray]

Not sure the thread title is appropriate tbh

[Nick]

5 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Not sure the thread title is appropriate tbh

Agree.

[Captain...]

17 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Black footballers have made it as players easily enough, which doesn't suggest there's any built-in bias at all. Either in the clubs or on the terraces.

Easily enough? I think many would disagree and a lot of retired black footballers remember an era when racism in football was common place, and it still rears its ugly head today.

 

I don't blame any black footballer who played in the 80s for not wanting to go into management/coaching.

[Buce]

32 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Not sure the thread title is appropriate tbh

 

26 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Agree.

 

It is a reference to something Ali G says - a social commentary on black people who blame any form of criticism or personal failure on racism, precisely as Dwight Yorke has done:

 

 

 

[RowlattsFox]

What has Dwight Yorker done since retiring to deserve a decent nanyang event job? Paul Ince would be managing at a high level now if he was successful at the jobs he has had. 

 

Might be be a bit naive but with more black players in the last 10 years or more I expect there to be more black managers in the coming years. 

[Nick]

12 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

It is a reference to something Ali G says - a social commentary on black people who blame any form of criticism or personal failure on racism, precisely as Dwight Yorke has done:

 

 

 

Hi @Buce !

 

I get the reference entirely - I suppose the thread title has connations of those comedic generic conventions - which arguably steer the title and posting in particular directions which may not be helpful to the actual issues...

 

Not suggesting anything here buddy - just in hindsight would give it a less sensationalist title!

 

 

Edit: It's just a bigger issue than simply Dwight Yorke and the arguments he makes and arguably requires some serious discussion without the comic steer....

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Hi @Buce !

 

I get the reference entirely - I suppose the thread title has connations of those comedic generic conventions - which arguably steer the title and posting in particular directions which may not be helpful to the actual issues...

 

Not suggesting anything here buddy - just in hindsight would give it a less sensationalist title!

 

 

Edit: It's just a bigger issue than simply Dwight Yorke and the arguments he makes and arguably requires some serious discussion without the comic steer....

 

Point taken.

 

Apologies if anyone has taken offence.

[Strokes]

I've not seen many Asian managers in the English leagues either.

[Thracian]

36 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Easily enough? I think many would disagree and a lot of retired black footballers remember an era when racism in football was common place, and it still rears its ugly head today.

 

I don't blame any black footballer who played in the 80s for not wanting to go into management/coaching.

That was more than 30 years ago - you'll be talking about the potato famine in Ireland next. 

[Nick]

Just now, Buce said:

 

Point taken.

 

Apologies if anyone has taken offence.

I don't think it causes particular offence buddy - just perhaps detracts and steers the issues and debate somewhere specific.

[Buce]

Just now, Swan Lesta said:

I don't think it causes particular offence buddy - just perhaps detracts and steers the issues and debate somewhere specific.

 

Yeah.

 

I get that now, but that wasn't my intention - I just thought it a subject worthy of debate (still do).

[SouthStandUpperTier]

I sympathise to some extent. But he needs to do his coaching badges, take a job in the lower leagues, or become an assistant coach (like Chris Hughton did for many years) and work his way up the ranks.

[Captain...]

7 minutes ago, Thracian said:

That was more than 30 years ago - you'll be talking about the potato famine in Ireland next. 

It is still relevant as most managers are in their late 40s-50s and would have played in the 80s, the attitudes then would have a direct result on the number of black managers now, because any player from that era would not believe that they would have the opportunities to go into coaching.

[Thracian]

Just now, Captain... said:

It is still relevant as most managers are in their late 40s-50s and would have played in the 80s, the attitudes then would have a direct result on the number of black managers now, because any player from that era would not believe that they would have the opportunities to go into coaching.

They'd be wrong so what's the point of thinking that way? Some people will make excuses last a lifetime.  

[Strokes]

Having seen Garth crooks team of the week for the last few years, I can safely say, if he was ever rejected for a job it was because there was certainly a better candidate available.

[Dr The Singh]

I'm no expert in this area with regards to football coaches, managers and prejudices to coloured people.  However, Chris Hughton, John Barnes, Paul Ince have all made similar remarks..................

[Alf Bentley]

18 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

I don't think it causes particular offence buddy - just perhaps detracts and steers the issues and debate somewhere specific.

 

11 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Yeah.

 

I get that now, but that wasn't my intention - I just thought it a subject worthy of debate (still do).

 

It's all a matter of opinion, ultimately, but I didn't see a problem with the thread title.

 

If @Buce's original post had just ridiculed Yorke, maybe, but it didn't. It raised the subject for debate in a balanced way. Surely we can handle a humorous/flippant title leading to balanced substance?

Those who see no problem would have expressed that view even if Buce had used an ultra-serious title.

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

I'm no expert in this area with regards to football coaches, managers and prejudices to coloured people.  However, Chris Hughton, John Barnes, Paul Ince have all made similar remarks..................

 

But only one of those isn't a terrible manager.

[Dr The Singh]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

It's all a matter of opinion, ultimately, but I didn't see a problem with the thread title.

 

If @Buce's original post had just ridiculed Yorke, maybe, but it didn't. It raised the subject for debate in a balanced way. Surely we can handle a humorous/flippant title leading to balanced substance?

Those who see no problem would have expressed that view even if Buce had used an ultra-serious title.

I can see how it can be offensive, if Dwight were a person from south indian origin, and the title made reference to south indian stereotype to a quite serious topic, I would be offended!!

[Beliall]

Just now, Dr The Singh said:

I can see how it can be offensive, if Dwight were a person from south indian origin, and the title made reference to south indian stereotype to a quite serious topic, I would be offended!!

Obviously you should be a manager singh. Have you ever had an interview??

[Dr The Singh]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

But only one of those isn't a terrible manager.

Peter Taylor is a god awful manager, and he still gets interviews!!!

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, Beliall said:

Obviously you should be a manager singh. Have you ever had an interview??

Can barely manage myself mate, plus I would be more interested in the footballer's wives!!!

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

Peter Taylor is a god awful manager, and he still gets interviews!!!

Peter Taylor is the all the proof needed that even any of the folks on here could get into high level management if lucky and driven enough.

[Alf Bentley]

18 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

I can see how it can be offensive, if Dwight were a person from south indian origin, and the title made reference to south indian stereotype to a quite serious topic, I would be offended!!

 

Fair enough. Maybe I'm a bit out of touch with what can cause offence....and "ironic humour" always risks misinterpretation, I suppose.

 

I'm of Irish parentage, but wouldn't be offended at someone titling a thread "Drunken Irishmen?" or "Thick Paddies?" and then launching a balanced debate about the Irish.

Mind you, these days Irish people face a lot less racism than black people or those of South Indian origin - and Anglo-Irish like me even less....so point taken.

 

I now look forward to you and me both avoiding all tongue-in-cheek comments that might be deemed derogatory to women..... 

[Nick]

16 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

It's all a matter of opinion, ultimately, but I didn't see a problem with the thread title.

 

If @Buce's original post had just ridiculed Yorke, maybe, but it didn't. It raised the subject for debate in a balanced way. Surely we can handle a humorous/flippant title leading to balanced substance?

Those who see no problem would have expressed that view even if Buce had used an ultra-serious title.

 

Well not necessarily Alf, it's about the suggestion that a stereotype which is a comic parody of ridicule be used to represent Dwight Yorke's argument. The character of Ali G has generic conventions which immediately may be associated with Dwight Yorke and his argument which all I am saying is may detract from the issues being raised and could be interpreted as offensive.

 

There no suggestion of malice or intent for anything else - just that I agree to the suggestion of a re-title!