Jon the Hat Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 6 minutes ago, David Guiza said: Some of the comments on this thread about the danger of Labour are almost laughable. Before I begin I am far from a 'Corbynista', I think he's a better option than May by a country mile but so is my left testicle. There is no doubting that Corbyn and Mcdonnell have a somewhat murky history in particular areas, but what do those who label them 'dangerous' genuinely believe will happen were they to get into power? Do I really need to start learning the words to Wide is my Motherland and flashing the hammer and sickle at every opportunity? From simply looking at Corbyn's voting record you can ascertain a great deal about his beliefs and morals:- On social affairs he has consistently voted in favour of gay marriage and rights (unlike May). In favour of the smoking ban (unlike May). In favour of the Hunting Ban (unlike May, though I am sure some blood thirsty posters would disagree with that one. On Foreign Policy he voted against the Iraq war (unlike May) and in favour of the inquests into the same. Against nuclear weapons (again, i'm sure some would disagree). Voted in favour of an EU referendum. etc etc. He has also voted against/for things that I wholeheartedly disagree with, but on a whole the history of his voting record is pretty self evident towards a caring individual and not a Marxist maniac. Were he and Labour to get into power and he started remaining places Corbyngrad and Mcdonnell suddenly went missing through the action of his new police force then I'm fairly certain he would be ousted. There isn't really a political party that represents me in full, the closest would perhaps be a mixture of Labour, Green and Lib-Dems depending on current policy; so I am far from a devout red. However, the rose tinted glasses of the press and posters on here (for both sides) can get a little too much. If you were to Google John Mcdonnell, as an example, you would receive 50% of articles from the Telegraph saying that he is Chairman Mao reborn and the other 50% is the Guardian proclaiming him as the saviour. Media bias has always been rife, but social media (including forum) does seem to have added a good few hundred miles to the divide and middle ground is seemingly invisible from most viewpoints of the chasm. To be fair I didn't think I would ever see Mao's little red book waved during a parliamentary debate by a shadow chancellor, but I was wrong on that, so maybe you are wrong on this.
David Guiza Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 9 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: To be fair I didn't think I would ever see Mao's little red book waved during a parliamentary debate by a shadow chancellor, but I was wrong on that, so maybe you are wrong on this. If you were to believe certain corners he wouldn't have needed the book to recite from as it's tattooed on his left arm, just below the Communist Manifesto. That was utterly bizarre though; a joke that was thrown back in his face and then some.
Guest Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, MattP said: The fact four people have been convicted of the said genocide isn't actually up for much interpretation is it? That doesn't change because they said it didnt happen years ago before the evidence was found. I blocked him as soon as I saw his next post and the bizarre accusation that the Conservative party now sells bombs to Saudi Arabia. (Which I also presume means the Lib Dems and labour have as well given our businesses have been selling them for a while) On the first point, it seems that the point raise was about the falsification of evidence. The UN decided there was no genocide so it seems not entirely unreasonable at that time. As you say, subsequently we see people being convicted and I'll take your word over the offences they were convicted. It seems that the tide has turned in terms of what the events are viewed as. I'm not sure you can cast massive aspersions over people for standing by a UN decision just because it seems to have been usurped since. On your second point, Tories have openly talked about the government role and position in helping the sale of arms to saudi arabia. It's bizarre to deny this. And yes it does also apply to previous governments (though I think blaming the lib dems as junior coalition members is a tad harsh). Edited 23 November 2017 by Guest
Fox Ulike Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 10 minutes ago, David Guiza said: If you were to believe certain corners he wouldn't have needed the book to recite from as it's tattooed on his left arm, just below the Communist Manifesto. That was utterly bizarre though; a joke that was thrown back in his face and then some. Yeah but the difference is that nobody is going to come onto this thread and deny that something like that happened. McDonnell did wave the book around. Fact. He looked like a dick doing it. Opinion. Most Labour supporters will agree with you there. The other side of this is dragging up an EDM from 13 years ago, and seeking to create some kind of weird connection between Jeremy Corbyn and the genocide in Serbia. As if Corbyn is in some way supporting Milosovic because he put his name to the EDM (which carries precisely zero influence).. It's fake news. It's lies. I objected to the Iraq War. That doesn't mean I supported the actions of Saddam Hussain. I know that the press do it all the time, but this is a forum for political debate - not for advancing and repeating political propaganda or point-scoring. 2
David Guiza Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 4 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Yeah but the difference is that nobody is going to come onto this thread and deny that something like that happened. McDonnell did wave the book around. Fact. He looked like a dick doing it. Opinion. Most Labour supporters will agree with you there. The other side of this is dragging up an EDM from 13 years ago, and seeking to create some kind of weird connection between Jeremy Corbyn and the genocide in Serbia. As if Corbyn is in some way supporting Milosovic because he put his name to the EDM (which carries precisely zero influence).. It's fake news. It's lies. I objected to the Iraq War. That doesn't mean I supported the actions of Saddam Hussain. I know that the press do it all the time, but this is a forum for political debate - not for advancing and repeating political propaganda or point-scoring. Absolutely. I remember when Corbyn said that he would have preferred it if Bin Laden was taken alive, which I happen agree with, rather than killed, which somehow translated to 'Corbyn is part of Al Qaeda'. I'm almost certain that he wanted Bin Laden to stand trial and not because he was a fan of his early work but didn't like him now that his terrorism was a little more mainstream. Maybe this is political bias and my hatred of Boris Johnson showing - but I can't help feeling that in the eyes of the media, Guardian aside, he gets away with an awful lot more than others would; simply because he is good old scoffing Bojo. The fact that his Dad is in the jungle is, again, another clever move as i'm almost certain he will come out a cult hero like his son.
Fox Ulike Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 3 minutes ago, David Guiza said: Absolutely. I remember when Corbyn said that he would have preferred it if Bin Laden was taken alive, which I happen agree with, rather than killed, which somehow translated to 'Corbyn is part of Al Qaeda'. I'm almost certain that he wanted Bin Laden to stand trial and not because he was a fan of his early work but didn't like him now that his terrorism was a little more mainstream. Maybe this is political bias and my hatred of Boris Johnson showing - but I can't help feeling that in the eyes of the media, Guardian aside, he gets away with an awful lot more than others would; simply because he is good old scoffing Bojo. The fact that his Dad is in the jungle is, again, another clever move as i'm almost certain he will come out a cult hero like his son. Yes that was a good one. My personal favourite was this one: Corbyn: "If we are to protect our people we must be honest about what threatens our security." May: "Jeremy Corbyn has said that terror attacks in Britain are our own fault." It really is just playground politics. The real question for me is why so many people swallow it. I really just can't get my head around that. 1
Guest Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 8 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Yes that was a good one. My personal favourite was this one: Corbyn: "If we are to protect our people we must be honest about what threatens our security." May: "Jeremy Corbyn has said that terror attacks in Britain are our own fault." It really is just playground politics. The real question for me is why so many people swallow it. I really just can't get my head around that. The one that really, really bugs me isn't actually an attack. It's when government says it is providing "record funding" to education, health or other department, even though it knows that the rise is lower than inflation - so funding is actually going down in real terms. I see this as hugely disrespectful to the electorate. Again, it's lapped up by certain people.
Guest Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 (edited) Further evidence from the IFS of the government ruling for the rich. Tom Waters, tax and benefits.pdf Edited 23 November 2017 by Guest
Buce Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 Budget 2017: Stagnant earnings forecast 'astonishing' The prediction that average UK earnings in 2022 could still be less than in 2008 is "astonishing", according to an independent economic think tank. Paul Johnson, director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, added that the economic forecasts published in the Budget made for "pretty grim reading". He highlighted that since 2014 growth in earnings has been "choked off". "We are in danger of losing not just one but getting on for two decades of earnings growth," he said. "Let's hope this forecast turns out to be too pessimistic." Mr Johnson was reacting to the productivity, earnings and economic growth forecasts from the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), which were released on Wednesday. The Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has said he hopes to prove the bleak economic forecasts released in the Budget wrong. The chancellor said clarity around Brexit would increase consumer confidence and lead to higher growth in the economy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42096806
Strokes Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 (edited) 43 minutes ago, toddybad said: Further evidence from the IFS of the government ruling for the rich. Tom Waters, tax and benefits.pdf No wonder I’m not feeling the pinch, I’m in the seventh decile. I wouldn’t say I’m rich though........ Btw the way, 2 adults no children on minimum wage working 40 hours a week are in the seventh decile and winners also. Nice. Edited 23 November 2017 by Strokes
Innovindil Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 4 minutes ago, Strokes said: No wonder I’m not feeling the pinch, I’m in the seventh decile. I wouldn’t say I’m rich though........ Seventh decile on foxestalk, third decile to the HMRC. We know your game. 1
Buce Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 11 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Seventh decile on foxestalk, third decile to the HMRC. We know your game. Call HMRC to report suspected tax evasion. Telephone:0800 788 887
Innovindil Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 9 minutes ago, Buce said: Call HMRC to report suspected tax evasion. Telephone:0800 788 887 Done. That'll teach him for bragging.
Guest Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 45 minutes ago, Strokes said: No wonder I’m not feeling the pinch, I’m in the seventh decile. I wouldn’t say I’m rich though........ Btw the way, 2 adults no children on minimum wage working 40 hours a week are in the seventh decile and winners also. Nice. Whereas two adults in low paid work with two children lose significantly. Not sure that's a good thing?
Carl the Llama Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 3 hours ago, Rogstanley said: IFS astonished by how awful wage growth has been and is forecast to be under this government http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42096806 Yes but there are more jobs than when we entered this period of awful wage growth so all is well with the world.
Guest Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Strokes said: No wonder I’m not feeling the pinch, I’m in the seventh decile. I wouldn’t say I’m rich though........ Btw the way, 2 adults no children on minimum wage working 40 hours a week are in the seventh decile and winners also. Nice. What's the source for those figures out of interest - have you got a link? I only ask as figures I've just seen show at 10% (1st decile) you'd have been earning £12200 in 2014. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax Edited 23 November 2017 by Guest
Strokes Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 36 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Done. That'll teach him for bragging. My name isn’t really strokes, so you will never catch me. 1
Strokes Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 17 minutes ago, toddybad said: What's the source for those figures out of interest - have you got a link? I only ask as figures I've just seen show at 10% (1st decile) you'd have been earning £12200 in 2014. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/25/uk-incomes-how-salary-compare
Webbo Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 3 minutes ago, Strokes said: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/25/uk-incomes-how-salary-compare Can you cut and paste that ?I refuse to give money to The Guardian. 2
Strokes Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Can you cut and paste that ?I refuse to give money to The Guardian. i have got another link for you but it’s not as detailed and it was more recent, moves minimum wage workers into the 6th decile so I ignored it Edited 23 November 2017 by Strokes
Rogstanley Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 2 hours ago, Strokes said: No wonder I’m not feeling the pinch, I’m in the seventh decile. I wouldn’t say I’m rich though........ Btw the way, 2 adults no children on minimum wage working 40 hours a week are in the seventh decile and winners also. Nice. You're in the 7th decile yet you don't feel particularly wealthy. Sort of says it all. Imagine what it's like for people in the bottom few deciles. 1
Strokes Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 3 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: You're in the 7th decile yet you don't feel particularly wealthy. Sort of says it all. Imagine what it's like for people in the bottom few deciles. Yep, it does say it all. People who don’t feel wealthy are better off under this government.
Rogstanley Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 6 minutes ago, Strokes said: Yep, it does say it all. People who don’t feel wealthy are better off under this government.
Guest Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 48 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: You're in the 7th decile yet you don't feel particularly wealthy. Sort of says it all. Imagine what it's like for people in the bottom few deciles. You look at how low the numbers are yet people still argue those on over £80k can't afford a little more tax on that top bit of their income.
Strokes Posted 23 November 2017 Posted 23 November 2017 9 minutes ago, toddybad said: You look at how low the numbers are yet people still argue those on over £80k can't afford a little more tax on that top bit of their income. I’ve no idea what you mean.
Recommended Posts