Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Alf Bentley]

6 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

@Alf Bentley don't see how you can't blame the EU when the President has signed off racist, convicted and corrupt ministers in the past but draws the line when a finance minister expresses an opionion every economist has about a single currency that effectively signs up Southern Europe to economic slavery to maintain German exports.

 

Tend to agree with your view of EMU and the Euro.

 

But the Italian President said that it was Italian and global capital that had discouraged him from approving the prospective Finance Minister. Maybe the EU was also whispering into his ear. But maybe it was indeed the capital markets that were leaning on him? It would be strange for someone with your views to discount that, surely? If the EU works hand in glove to serve the interests of German and other international capital, then it's credible that global (inc. German) capital was intervening directly to protect its interests....

[Sharpe's Fox]

9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Tend to agree with your view of EMU and the Euro.

 

But the Italian President said that it was Italian and global capital that had discouraged him from approving the prospective Finance Minister. Maybe the EU was also whispering into his ear. But maybe it was indeed the capital markets that were leaning on him? It would be strange for someone with your views to discount that, surely? If the EU works hand in glove to serve the interests of German and other international capital, then it's credible that global (inc. German) capital was intervening directly to protect its interests....

very true mate I do see the hands of global capital around the neck of Italy in this instance. Although it is not necessarily the Commission facing down the Italian president right now I do believe that the EU is acting as the legislative fist ready to smash down if necessary.

[Sharpe's Fox]

 

from private eye

[Guest]

On the subject of statesmen, our current defence secretary has been doing his best to make Diane Abbot look statesmanlike. When you get your ass kicked by Richard Madely you have to question if you're in the right job. I have to ask: who on earth would have been scared/convinced/forced into anything by him as a whip?

 

 

Edited 29 May 2018 by Guest

[Jimothy]

Jesus  Not only is that one of the worst cases of question dodging I've seen, and he's been out smarted by Richard ****ing Madeley, Williamson is so drab, and in all honesty speaks so slowly he sounds a bit thick.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson seems to come across as a fairly moderate, liberal Conservative. Possible future leader of the main party? 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44290083

[Guest]

1 minute ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson seems to come across as a fairly moderate, liberal Conservative. Possible future leader of the main party? 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44290083

Rumours are that many of the old party grandees are thinking of her as a modern day Jesus. I think they know they're a busted flush if they don't find a liberal alternative to what's gone before. Let's face it, if labour had any other leader right now they'd be miles ahead because left wing policies are popular again.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Rumours are that many of the old party grandees are thinking of her as a modern day Jesus. I think they know they're a busted flush if they don't find a liberal alternative to what's gone before. Let's face it, if labour had any other leader right now they'd be miles ahead because left wing policies are popular again.

She generally comes across pretty well on the telly. Got high hopes for her.

Then again, I had high hopes for Theresa May a few years back and she hasn't lived up to expectations.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Jesus  Not only is that one of the worst cases of question dodging I've seen, and he's been out smarted by Richard ****ing Madeley, Williamson is so drab, and in all honesty speaks so slowly he sounds a bit thick.

Let's not forget the statement that led to this questioning

 

 

[Guest]

Just now, UpTheLeagueFox said:

She generally comes across pretty well on the telly. Got high hopes for her.

Then again, I had high hopes for Theresa May a few years back and she hasn't lived up to expectations.

It's because she's a tory mate ?

[HighPeakFox]

What bothers me is politicians of any party basically selling out to corporate might - and that is happeneing everywhere now. Democracy will become evern more of an irrelevance when law is basically governed and owned by the super-rich.

[Guest]

• The EEF, the manufacturers’ organisation, has urged the government to drop its “maximum facilitation” (or “max fac”) plans for post-Brexit customs. This is the option favoured by cabinet Brexiters like Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. In a statement the EEF’s chief executive Stephen Phipson said:

Much of the debate on max fac is misguided. No one doubts the technology exists: it is in place in many locations around the world. The issue is whether it is good enough to provide a frictionless border and can be implemented quickly enough to be ready for December 2020. I think that the answer to this is an overwhelming no. It may have some long term benefits, but suggesting max fac is a solution to our immediate problems is a non-starter.

I have been to the US and Canada border and the reality is that most Canadian SME businesses can’t easily access the max fac arrangements. Whilst some do qualify for a streamlined process, the majority are still subject to the full customs check. The Canadian process is particularly efficient and well managed, but the reality is that this is time consuming and at busy times often has long delays. Apply that to Dover and the consequences are horrendous.

[Sharpe's Fox]

37 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson seems to come across as a fairly moderate, liberal Conservative. Possible future leader of the main party? 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44290083

I’m afraid Colonel Davidson is genuinely thick as dogshit and without the SNP to rail against would crash and burn before she could formulate any sort of policy not related to her being a big, fat, butch lesbian.

[Buce]

Soros-backed campaign to push for new Brexit vote within a year

fresh referendum soon couldBillionaire says holding save UK from ‘immense damage’

 

A campaign to secure a second Brexit referendum within a year and save the UK from “immense damage” is to be launched in days, the philanthropist and financier George Soros has announced.

The billionaire founder of the Open Society Foundation said the prospect of the UK’s prolonged divorce from Brussels could help persuade the British public by a “convincing margin” that EU membership was in their interests.

In a speech on Tuesday ahead of the launch of the Best for Britain campaign – said to have already attracted millions of pounds in donations – Soros suggested to an audience in Paris that changing the minds of Britons would be in keeping with “revolutionary times”.

 

Best for Britain had already helped to convince parliamentarians to extract from Theresa May a meaningful vote on the final withdrawal deal, he said, and it was time to engage with voters, and Brussels, to pave the way for the UK to stay in the bloc. It is expected to publish its campaign manifesto on 8 June.

Soros, 87, said: “Brexit is an immensely damaging process, harmful to both sides ... Divorce will be a long process, probably taking more than five years. Five years is an eternity in politics, especially in revolutionary times like the present.

“Ultimately, it’s up to the British people to decide what they want to do. It would be better however if they came to a decision sooner rather than later. That’s the goal of an initiative called the Best for Britain, which I support.

“Best for Britain fought for, and helped to win, a meaningful parliamentary vote which includes the option of not leaving at all. This would be good for Britain but would also render Europe a great service by rescinding Brexit and not creating a hard-to-fill hole in the European budget.

“But the British public must express its support by a convincing margin in order to be taken seriously by Europe. That’s what Best for Britain is aiming for by engaging the electorate. It will publish its manifesto in the next few days.”

 

Soros said he feared the EU could be heading towards another major financial crisis triggered by austerity and populist political parties intent on blowing the bloc apart.

Sounding the alarm as financial markets fell into turmoil on Tuesday amid a deepening political crisis in Italy, Soros said the EU had lost its way since the 2008 banking crash and required radical transformation in order to survive.

“The EU is in an existential crisis. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong,” he said.

However, Soros said he was convinced it was the ideal time for the EU to reform itself and prepare the ground for the UK staying inside the bloc.

“The economic case for remaining a member of the EU is strong, but it will take time for it to sink in,” Soros said. “During that time the EU needs to transform itself into an association that countries like Britain would want to join, in order to strengthen the political case.

 

“Such a Europe would differ from the current arrangements in two key respects. First, it would clearly distinguish between the European Union and the eurozone. Second, it would recognise that the euro has many unresolved problems and they must not be allowed to destroy the European Union.”

Italian bonds dropped sharply on Tuesday, pushing the country’s borrowing costs to the highest levels in more than four years as concerns grew that the EU’s third-largest economy could exit the single currency.

Sergio Mattarella, the country’s president, vetoed the appointment of a Eurosceptic as finance minister over the weekend, laying the ground for fresh elections later this year.

Hungarian-born Soros said an “addiction to austerity” at the heart of Europe was harming economic development, which had in turn been exploited by populist politicians to stoke anti-EU support.

 

“As a result [of austerity], many young people today regard the EU as an enemy that has deprived them of jobs and a secure and promising future,” he said.

Soros said there were still steps that could be taken to make the EU more appealing to ordinary voters who had been let down by Brussels since 2008.

Calling for an EU-funded Marshall-style plan for Africa worth about €30bn (£26bn) a year, he said migratory pressures across Europe could be relieved by helping developing nations. He called for the EU to abandon rules requiring member states to join the euro, lest they eventually combine with other EU rules to “destroy” the project altogether.

Echoing a call made by David Cameron before the Brexit vote, he argued for the EU to allow member states to pursue “multi-track” relations with the bloc, rather than “ever closer union”.

“Europe needs to do something drastic in order to survive its existential crisis. Simply put, the EU needs to reinvent itself,” he said.

This year, Soros moved to defy his critics over his £400,000 donation to Best for Britain by pledging an additional £100,000 to support efforts to fight Brexit. OSF’s total funding for pro-Europe campaigns and organisations is now at more than £800,000.

[Countryfox]

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

Soros-backed campaign to push for new Brexit vote within a year

fresh referendum soon couldBillionaire says holding save UK from ‘immense damage’

 

A campaign to secure a second Brexit referendum within a year and save the UK from “immense damage” is to be launched in days, the philanthropist and financier George Soros has announced.

The billionaire founder of the Open Society Foundation said the prospect of the UK’s prolonged divorce from Brussels could help persuade the British public by a “convincing margin” that EU membership was in their interests.

In a speech on Tuesday ahead of the launch of the Best for Britain campaign – said to have already attracted millions of pounds in donations – Soros suggested to an audience in Paris that changing the minds of Britons would be in keeping with “revolutionary times”.

 

Best for Britain had already helped to convince parliamentarians to extract from Theresa May a meaningful vote on the final withdrawal deal, he said, and it was time to engage with voters, and Brussels, to pave the way for the UK to stay in the bloc. It is expected to publish its campaign manifesto on 8 June.

Soros, 87, said: “Brexit is an immensely damaging process, harmful to both sides ... Divorce will be a long process, probably taking more than five years. Five years is an eternity in politics, especially in revolutionary times like the present.

“Ultimately, it’s up to the British people to decide what they want to do. It would be better however if they came to a decision sooner rather than later. That’s the goal of an initiative called the Best for Britain, which I support.

“Best for Britain fought for, and helped to win, a meaningful parliamentary vote which includes the option of not leaving at all. This would be good for Britain but would also render Europe a great service by rescinding Brexit and not creating a hard-to-fill hole in the European budget.

“But the British public must express its support by a convincing margin in order to be taken seriously by Europe. That’s what Best for Britain is aiming for by engaging the electorate. It will publish its manifesto in the next few days.”

 

Soros said he feared the EU could be heading towards another major financial crisis triggered by austerity and populist political parties intent on blowing the bloc apart.

Sounding the alarm as financial markets fell into turmoil on Tuesday amid a deepening political crisis in Italy, Soros said the EU had lost its way since the 2008 banking crash and required radical transformation in order to survive.

“The EU is in an existential crisis. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong,” he said.

However, Soros said he was convinced it was the ideal time for the EU to reform itself and prepare the ground for the UK staying inside the bloc.

“The economic case for remaining a member of the EU is strong, but it will take time for it to sink in,” Soros said. “During that time the EU needs to transform itself into an association that countries like Britain would want to join, in order to strengthen the political case.

 

“Such a Europe would differ from the current arrangements in two key respects. First, it would clearly distinguish between the European Union and the eurozone. Second, it would recognise that the euro has many unresolved problems and they must not be allowed to destroy the European Union.”

Italian bonds dropped sharply on Tuesday, pushing the country’s borrowing costs to the highest levels in more than four years as concerns grew that the EU’s third-largest economy could exit the single currency.

Sergio Mattarella, the country’s president, vetoed the appointment of a Eurosceptic as finance minister over the weekend, laying the ground for fresh elections later this year.

Hungarian-born Soros said an “addiction to austerity” at the heart of Europe was harming economic development, which had in turn been exploited by populist politicians to stoke anti-EU support.

 

“As a result [of austerity], many young people today regard the EU as an enemy that has deprived them of jobs and a secure and promising future,” he said.

Soros said there were still steps that could be taken to make the EU more appealing to ordinary voters who had been let down by Brussels since 2008.

Calling for an EU-funded Marshall-style plan for Africa worth about €30bn (£26bn) a year, he said migratory pressures across Europe could be relieved by helping developing nations. He called for the EU to abandon rules requiring member states to join the euro, lest they eventually combine with other EU rules to “destroy” the project altogether.

Echoing a call made by David Cameron before the Brexit vote, he argued for the EU to allow member states to pursue “multi-track” relations with the bloc, rather than “ever closer union”.

“Europe needs to do something drastic in order to survive its existential crisis. Simply put, the EU needs to reinvent itself,” he said.

This year, Soros moved to defy his critics over his £400,000 donation to Best for Britain by pledging an additional £100,000 to support efforts to fight Brexit. OSF’s total funding for pro-Europe campaigns and organisations is now at more than £800,000.

 

Crikey ...   we could be trying to get back in just as Italy are getting out ...     

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

The people of this country have voted us out. Soros does not seem to respect the meaning of democracy. People like him are a pain in the backside!

 

 

[Guest]

Just now, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

The people of this country have voted us out. Soros does not seem to respect the meaning of democracy. People like him are a pain in the backside!

 

 

He's only campaigning to remain. It's called free speech. It sits alongside democracy. 40 years ago people voted us in but certainly for a good 20 years much of our media and then ukip campaigned for us to be out. As long as democracy rules people can campaign for what they want.

[Webbo]

Soros ripped of this country's taxpayers for £10 billion pounds during Black Wednesday. I think we can be certain that his motivations for doing this isn't his concern for the British people.

[leicsmac]

Yeah, as much as this might be a good idea or a bad idea quite frankly Soros's name is poison and him being involved simply adds more strength to the arguments of the Leavers.

[Bryn]

3 hours ago, toddybad said:

On the subject of statesmen, our current defence secretary has been doing his best to make Diane Abbot look statesmanlike. When you get your ass kicked by Richard Madely you have to question if you're in the right job. I have to ask: who on earth would have been scared/convinced/forced into anything by him as a whip?

 

 

 

 

Outstanding

[Alf Bentley]

5 hours ago, toddybad said:

On the subject of statesmen, our current defence secretary has been doing his best to make Diane Abbot look statesmanlike. When you get your ass kicked by Richard Madely you have to question if you're in the right job. I have to ask: who on earth would have been scared/convinced/forced into anything by him as a whip?

 

 

 

 

 

That performance could only have got worse if one of the elephants had walked up behind him, reversed and then shat on his head.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

6 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

I’m afraid Colonel Davidson is genuinely thick as dogshit and without the SNP to rail against would crash and burn before she could formulate any sort of policy not related to her being a big, fat, butch lesbian.

Charming...

[Guest]

 

 

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 

 

Ah, so they are fixing the problem you said we never had? Good for you.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Ah, so they are fixing the problem you said we never had? Good for you.

Don't believe I ever did say that strokes, old bean. In fact I'm sure I've said the opposite.

What I've said is irrelevant though, it's one of the cornerstones of Brexit theory demolished.

Edited 30 May 2018 by Guest