lifted*fox Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 (edited) Just now, Milo said: This Rupert hasn’t really thought this through, has he? People vote by a majority to leave EU. Establishment don’t want it to happen and do everything they can to scupper it. Remainer (May) in charge of leaving process. People who are trying to implement the referendum majority vote decide enough is enough. May will be gone and Leave politicians will take charge. Its a good thing and long overdue. keep telling yourself that m8 if it helps you sleep easy at night. your brexit is dead Edited 9 July 2018 by lifted*fox 1
Alf Bentley Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 3 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: I am pretty sure that Comrade Corbyn would rather burn in hell rather than do that?! He has voted against the EU throughout his entire parliamentary life. If he were to change tact now it would show him to be a terribly unprincipled, desperate and pathetic man willing to do anything to get into power. I am not sure that is the look he is going for. The problem for Labour is their leader is more of a brexiteer than anyone in the tory party. I was thinking more of what Corbyn would have to offer to get the short-term support of a parliamentary majority (LDs, SNP, possibly a few Tory moderates): Soft Brexit or a referendum would be part of it, I assume. His historic Euroscepticism and the public mood probably make a referendum much less likely, I agree - but Soft Brexit is essentially already Labour policy.
Donut Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 Teresa May would probably be relieved to be freed from this brexit bag of shit she is having to oversee. 1
ealingfox Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 3 minutes ago, Milo said: This Rupert hasn’t really thought this through, has he? People vote by a majority to leave EU. Establishment don’t want it to happen and do everything they can to scupper it. Remainer (May) in charge of leaving process. People who are trying to implement the referendum majority vote decide enough is enough. May will be gone and Leave politicians will take charge. Its a good thing and long overdue. All of those knobbers had the chance to take charge when Cameron left, and guess what? They all ran a mile. Does that seriously not tell you anything? 2
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: His historic Euroscepticism and the public mood probably make a referendum much less likely, I agree - but Soft Brexit is essentially already Labour policy. Is it though? To me what they propose is pretty much the same as the tories are trying to propose, a monumental **** up. Labour are proposing 'a' customs union where they have influence on the deals singed and can also make their own deals with no freedom of movement, sounds very much like cloud cuckoo land cake! At no point despite the views of many in the party has it been policy to stay in the customs union and or single market. I suspect this is due to outdated fool the party has as its leader. Really the most sensible party here for quite some time has been the Lib Dems. Yet for some bizarre reason people are still attracted to this ridiculous cult Karl Marx wannabe.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 7 minutes ago, Donut said: Teresa May would probably be relieved to be freed from this brexit bag of shit she is having to oversee. Of course she is:
Milo Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 15 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said: That's kind of the point of politics mate. Why, are we having another General Election?
Guest MattP Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ealingfox said: All of those knobbers had the chance to take charge when Cameron left, and guess what? They all ran a mile. Does that seriously not tell you anything? Slight re-writing of history no? Boris I'll give you. Gove and Fox ran for leader and were eliminated, Leadsom as well before being forced out due to that newspaper interview, Farage wanted to play a role but the Tories said no. The "they all ran away" line isn't based on any sort of fact whatsoever, Boris aside they all wanted the top role in overseeing it. Edited 9 July 2018 by MattP
Alf Bentley Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 9 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Gove next PM You could be right there, Jon. He has more sense of realism and strategy than the rest of the Hard Brexit crew put together. Months ago, he was anticipating a situation where his crew would have to compromise on a Soft Brexit in the short term and seek to harden it up over the long-term. That's still the situation, I think, as there doesn't seem to be a parliamentary majority for a Hard Brexit - whereas there probably is for Soft Brexit (most Tory MPs, probably most Labour MPs, even Lib Dems/SNP if there's no major shift in public mood towards Remain or a referendum. I suppose he has a two-stage problem, though: - To win among Tory MPs, he'll need to seem like a pragmatic compromiser - To then win among party members, he'll have to seem like a frothing-at-the-mouth Hard Brexiteer. If he can manage that, though, he'd have the option to trigger an election once the EU probably reject even the current May proposals - and could hope to win a Hard Brexit mandate in a late autumn general election... 7 minutes ago, MattP said: Exactly right Alf, MP's then members after Brady gives her the marching orders. Unless we get the same chicanery as last time, worth nothing the tory membership is solidly Eurosceptic so the next Prime Minister is surely going to be a Gove, Johnson or Mogg etc were it come to it. I don't think a vote of confidence means much since the fixed term parliament act was passed regarding elections, Im not sure but I think you are right that she recommends a prime minister to the monarch to take over, which would of course mean the next Tory leader. Not sure how it would reflect the deal with DUP but that's obviously not a problem with the current opposition. Brady can't just give her the marching orders, though, can he? If 48 Tory MPs call for her to go, unless she went voluntarily, she'd be a candidate for a leadership election among MPs, wouldn't she? Unless Tory MPs quickly turn against her en masse (possible, but no sign of it so far), she'd probably win big among MPs.....and then possibly lose among party members. Mirror image of Corbyn with Labour MPs/members.... If May lost a parliamentary confidence vote, would it "of course" be the next Tory leader who'd be recommended as the next PM? Only if there was already an agreed Tory replacement who could command the support of Tory Remainers and Hard Brexiteers, I presume? Who would that be? Again, Gove seems the only one with any chance of doing that....based on him pursuing May's existing strategy and maybe calling an election after the EU asks for further major compromises. If there's no Tory who could command a parliamentary majority, and Corbyn found the numbers to do so, May could be constitutionally obliged to recommend to the Queen that she appoint Corbyn PM without an election.....I think. It's a massive mess, whatever happens next. I'm sure some of the sharper minds in all factions (Gove, Grieve, McDonnell, Starmer) will have been working out the numbers and potential strategies for some time since.
Bobby Hundreds Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 2 minutes ago, Milo said: Why, are we having another General Election? I'm sure the party members will be voting in a spitting image caricature to sink the party for the next 10 years after 2022. Believe it or not, it won't always be about this sorry Brexit shitshow.
Guest MattP Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 Gove is genuinely the only one who I think could bring both sides of the party together at this point.
ealingfox Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 4 minutes ago, MattP said: Slight re-writing of history no? Boris I'll give you. Gove and Fox ran for leader and were eliminated, Leadsom as well before being forced out due to that newspaper interview, Farage wanted to play a role but the Tories said no. The "they all ran away" line isn't based on any sort of fact whatsoever, Boris aside they all wanted the top role in overseeing it. Apart from the fact Boris actually did. Gove who went on the record as saying he didn't want to be PM, what was it, ten times? Then shithoused his mate and put a bid in at the last minute. Yeah Im sure he was desperate to win it, and all for the good of the people no doubt. Fox's bid was the equivalent of someone who's only filled 3 numbers in on their lottery ticket watching the draw hoping to win the jackpot. Leadsom I don't think anybody outside the Tory party had even heard of before that, says it all that she beat all of the above. To be honest the fact that nobody wanted them is charge is equally telling.
Milo Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 3 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said: I'm sure the party members will be voting in a spitting image caricature to sink the party for the next 10 years after 2022. Believe it or not, it won't always be about this sorry Brexit shitshow. Still doesn’t matter. If Tories lose the next GE, they can just moan and bleat about the result and demand another vote, surely. Assume that’s the way it works these days?
Bobby Hundreds Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 (edited) I'm sure all MPs are up for this with the Parliamentary recess in 15 days time. Edited 9 July 2018 by Bobby Hundreds
leicsmac Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 ....and all just in time for a business visit from a potentially unfriendly allied power who love the idea of taking advantage of weakness.
Guest MattP Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 5 minutes ago, ealingfox said: Apart from the fact Boris actually did. Gove who went on the record as saying he didn't want to be PM, what was it, ten times? Then shithoused his mate and put a bid in at the last minute. Yeah Im sure he was desperate to win it, and all for the good of the people no doubt. Fox's bid was the equivalent of someone who's only filled 3 numbers in on their lottery ticket watching the draw hoping to win the jackpot. Leadsom I don't think anybody outside the Tory party had even heard of before that, says it all that she beat all of the above. To be honest the fact that nobody wanted them is charge is equally telling. Literally said at the top of the post "I'll give you Boris". Fact us pretty ALL the other big players did want it, they idea they all legged it is just a blatant untruth.
Donut Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 Milo there was no point bleating about previous election results as the nasty EU overruled everything. Your vote has always been a total waste mate.
ealingfox Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: Literally said at the top of the post "I'll give you Boris". Fact us pretty ALL the other big players did want it, they idea they all legged it is just a blatant untruth. Call me abstract but I would say going on record saying "I don't want to be Prime Minister" multiple times suggests that actually he didn't want it all that much. Rees-Mogg? Where was he then? Seems a keen backseat driver now. Davis?
Guest MattP Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 1 minute ago, ealingfox said: Call me abstract but I would say going on record saying "I don't want to be Prime Minister" multiple times suggests that actually he didn't want it all that much. Rees-Mogg? Where was he then? Seems a keen backseat driver now. Davis? Despite actually deciding to run for Prime Minister after saying it? I'd say that was a hint he might want it. Rees-Mogg only entered parliament a year before, credit to him for how influential he has become but he was never going to be a serious contender at that point. David Davis? The man who took on the role of chief negotiator? You have an extremely strange definition of what running away is.
ealingfox Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Despite actually deciding to run for Prime Minister after saying it? I'd say that was a hint he might want it. Rees-Mogg only entered parliament a year before, credit to him for how influential he has become but he was never going to be a serious contender at that point. David Davis? The man who took on the role of chief negotiator? You have an extremely strange definition of what running away is. Or he wanted to be on the leadership ballot, knowing full well he'd almost certainly lose given that he'd actively declared his non-interest. I'd hardly call that taking charge either way. Rees-Mogg became an MP in 2010, that's more than a year mate. Davis wouldn't have had to answer to a remainer if he'd taken charge would he?
Guest MattP Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 7 minutes ago, ealingfox said: Or he wanted to be on the leadership ballot, knowing full well he'd almost certainly lose given that he'd actively declared his non-interest. I'd hardly call that taking charge either way. Rees-Mogg became an MP in 2010, that's more than a year mate. Davis wouldn't have had to answer to a remainer if he'd taken charge would he? Apologies on JRM - he was never a player then though, in fact he was barely used in the referendum campaign which would have been a huge weight given the intellect he has. Gove was sending texts around trying to get votes off Leadsom at the last minute he was that desperate, he wanted to win. His stock was low because at the time he was seen to have stabbed Boris in the back. I doubt Davis wanted the role given his age and his own role in trying for it in 2005, he stepped up when to be the Brexit secretary though and he probably believed what May said at the time in the Lancaster house speech. Now he clearly doesn't.
lifted*fox Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 they're all full of shit. absolute charlatans the lot of 'em. utterly disgusting, selfish, silver-spoon wielding, archaic cvnts who care about nobody but themselves and their own pocket. your ex-man Davis spent 4 HOURS working with the EU in brexit meetings in nearly 2 years. your ex-man Johnson ducked out of the country during the Heathrow vote. that's not principled, there's no integrity. they're thieves, stealing a living. pretenders. despite people always wanting to shit on Corbyn and his inability to govern this country - I'd say that out of anyone in current politics he's had the biggest balls over the last few years. he's taken a huge amount of flak, unfounded bullshit mostly and just graciously carried on throughout it all. he's worked harder, way WAY harder and won over more support than any of these out of touch tory wind-bags could ever hope to. i've said it before and will say it again - if you wake up in the morning and find yourself supporting the likes of Gove, Mogg, etc. you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror - you've lost sight of the greater good. a pathetic party for selfish people. 1
Webbo Posted 9 July 2018 Posted 9 July 2018 2 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: they're all full of shit. absolute charlatans the lot of 'em. utterly disgusting, selfish, silver-spoon wielding, archaic cvnts who care about nobody but themselves and their own pocket. your ex-man Davis spent 4 HOURS working with the EU in brexit meetings in nearly 2 years. your ex-man Johnson ducked out of the country during the Heathrow vote. that's not principled, there's no integrity. they're thieves, stealing a living. pretenders. despite people always wanting to shit on Corbyn and his inability to govern this country - I'd say that out of anyone in current politics he's had the biggest balls over the last few years. he's taken a huge amount of flak, unfounded bullshit mostly and just graciously carried on throughout it all. he's worked harder, way WAY harder and won over more support than any of these out of touch tory wind-bags could ever hope to. i've said it before and will say it again - if you wake up in the morning and find yourself supporting the likes of Gove, Mogg, etc. you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror - you've lost sight of the greater good. a pathetic party for selfish people. Corbyn's a brexiteer, he just hasn't got the nerve to admit. He's a coward as well as thick 1
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