l444ry Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Laws can be changed pretty quickly when necessary. Trust me if we needed WTO rules, then a solution would be found. Sorry Jon but that's the classic Brexiteer answer to everything. Ignore the facts and hope something comes up. Edited 20 July 2018 by l444ry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: Laws can be changed pretty quickly when necessary. Trust me if we needed WTO rules, then a solution would be found. If a solution would be found, you'd think we'd have found it by now... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 Meanwhile we'd join Mauritania as the the only country to trade only on WTO rules, but that's alright cos it will definitely be the EU caving in to our demands and not the other way round after a few years. People have gone completely and utterly mad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 Have we not pulled the plug on this ****ing farce yet? Back out and do our ****ing homework next time. If Brexit means Brexit based on two ****ing cvnt percent then fine, but let's not do it to the ruin of all hey? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 2 hours ago, l444ry said: How many times does this need saying? WTO requires an Irish border. That's not there at the moment and UK Law now prevents anyone from putting it there. So UK law precludes us complying with WTO rules, ergo the WTO will not allow us to trade under present UK law. If you change the law to make it possible, you infringe the Good Friday Agreement, which the government has now also made an illegal action. In other words, the government has made it illegal to do anything to break the stalemate with the EU. Ergo the only two legally admissible options are (a) crash Brexit or (b) cancel Brexit. An interesting Fact Check here: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-are-the-options-for-the-irish-border-after-brexit This suggests: - That the EU would have to impose a hard border to satisfy WTO regulations for free trade areas - That if the UK cut/eliminated tariffs on imports from certain countries, it would be obliged to cut/eliminate tariffs in the same way for imports from all other WTO countries under "most favoured nation" rules - That UK farmers/food processors, in particular, would therefore struggle to compete against CAP-subsidised EU competitors in UK, EU or third country markets Maybe some scheme could be agreed for reciprocal tariff collection or checking of loads away from the border, allowing the UK not to erect a border (though even that is dubious). What would be the point, though, if the EU is legally obliged to erect a hard border if there is no customs union - and if the UK couldn't reduce/eliminate its own tariffs without putting a lot of its own producers out of business? The scheme for Hard Brexit, no customs union, no UK border and blaming the EU if they put up a border doesn't seem quite so smart if that's all true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said: An interesting Fact Check here: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-are-the-options-for-the-irish-border-after-brexit This suggests: - That the EU would have to impose a hard border to satisfy WTO regulations for free trade areas - That if the UK cut/eliminated tariffs on imports from certain countries, it would be obliged to cut/eliminate tariffs in the same way for imports from all other WTO countries under "most favoured nation" rules - That UK farmers/food processors, in particular, would therefore struggle to compete against CAP-subsidised EU competitors in UK, EU or third country markets Maybe some scheme could be agreed for reciprocal tariff collection or checking of loads away from the border, allowing the UK not to erect a border (though even that is dubious). What would be the point, though, if the EU is legally obliged to erect a hard border if there is no customs union - and if the UK couldn't reduce/eliminate its own tariffs without putting a lot of its own producers out of business? The scheme for Hard Brexit, no customs union, no UK border and blaming the EU if they put up a border doesn't seem quite so smart if that's all true. As long as they can do that bit, most won't care. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 1 hour ago, Voll Blau said: If a solution would be found, you'd think we'd have found it by now... That depends if you believe there is a true will to find a solution, or whether it’s more convenient to not find one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 1 minute ago, toddybad said: This is exactly the kind of retarded problem we are going to have. How do we ensure the supply chain remains unrestricted?? Without free movement of good we absolutely can not be assured to have stock to manufacture. For internationally owned companies with no ties to Britain this is a fantastic opportunity to move to Europe - more specifically eastern Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 1 hour ago, Strokes said: That depends if you believe there is a true will to find a solution, or whether it’s more convenient to not find one. From who, though? If prominent Leavers genuinely thought there was a conspiracy on this point they'd surely publicly announce a viable plan to show up May, wouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: From who, though? If prominent Leavers genuinely thought there was a conspiracy on this point they'd surely publicly announce a viable plan to show up May, wouldn't they? Exactly. If the whole thing is so fantastic and viable then just show us. I am open to being converted but from a personal business point of view I am yet to see solutions to the problems caused by this clusterfvck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 20 July 2018 Author Share Posted 20 July 2018 Meanwhile, on the other side of the Atlantic are soon to be new trade partner is having a melt down about Soya bean prices and a whole lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 Just now, Voll Blau said: From who, though? If prominent Leavers genuinely thought there was a conspiracy on this point they'd surely publicly announce a viable plan to show up May, wouldn't they? As far as I know, we haven’t tried to negotiate an exemption from the WTO on it and asked, which either says lack of will or lack of wit. It all seems a little bit convenient, I’m convinced May has signed the backstop to kill this now. A technical border should not be beyond the wit of man in this day and age, should it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Exactly. If the whole thing is so fantastic and viable then just show us. I am open to being converted but from a personal business point of view I am yet to see solutions to the problems caused by this clusterfvck. You're just doing Britain down. Believe in this country. It'll be worth it to take back control. It'll hurt the EU more than it hurts us. It's just project fear. The entire establishment are trying to stop Brexit. Everybody knew what they voted for. Brexit means Brexit. No deal is better than a bad deal. Edited 20 July 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 14 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: This is exactly the kind of retarded problem we are going to have. How do we ensure the supply chain remains unrestricted?? Without free movement of good we absolutely can not be assured to have stock to manufacture. For internationally owned companies with no ties to Britain this is a fantastic opportunity to move to Europe - more specifically eastern Europe. May and her merry band of mad Brexiteers have ruled out the Customs Union so that will wreck the Just in Time stock control system which is vital. Queues at ports will tail back into double figure miles if the predicted hold ups are anything like true Holding stock will cost companies a fortune. It doesn't take rocket science to guess where the motor trade will be going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 1 hour ago, Strokes said: As far as I know, we haven’t tried to negotiate an exemption from the WTO on it and asked, which either says lack of will or lack of wit. It all seems a little bit convenient, I’m convinced May has signed the backstop to kill this now. A technical border should not be beyond the wit of man in this day and age, should it? If that's the answer, then why aren't your Borises, Farages, Goves and the like calling for that to happen? May might well be trying to obstruct certain elements of the terms of leaving in some way or another, but if prominent Leavers genuinely have such workable solutions in their mind then why aren't they putting their money where their mouth is? At least they can say "we tried to tell her" then if the conspiracy is real. The truth is they don't have the courage of their convictions, and are now only interested in apportioning blame on to anyone but themselves however this turns out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 18 minutes ago, toddybad said: You're just doing Britain down. Believe in this country. It'll be worth it to take back control. It'll hurt the EU more than it hurts us. It's just project fear. The entire establishment are trying to stop Brexit. Everybody knew what they voted for. Brexit means Brexit. No deal is better than a bad deal. +1 I knew you would come around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 37 minutes ago, toddybad said: Plenty of work for construction workers then... I just thought I'd save the gammons the bother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 7 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: If that's the answer, then why aren't your Borises, Farages, Goves and the like calling for that to happen? May might well be trying to obstruct certain elements of the terms of leaving in some way or another, but if prominent Leavers genuinely have such workable solutions in their mind then why aren't they putting their money where their mouth is? At least they can say "we tried to tell her" then if the conspiracy is real. The truth is they don't have the courage of their convictions, and are now only interested in apportioning blame on to anyone but themselves however this turns out. I can’t speak for other people’s thoughts, especially of people I don’t know but I guess they have other ideas of what the solution is. If we haven’t asked the WTO for an exemption then we haven’t exhausted all options, can we agree that is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 9 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: If that's the answer, then why aren't your Borises, Farages, Goves and the like calling for that to happen? May might well be trying to obstruct certain elements of the terms of leaving in some way or another, but if prominent Leavers genuinely have such workable solutions in their mind then why aren't they putting their money where their mouth is? At least they can say "we tried to tell her" then if the conspiracy is real. The truth is they don't have the courage of their convictions, and are now only interested in apportioning blame on to anyone but themselves however this turns out. Backbenchers can't exactly produce a document that contradicts government policy, look at the uproar this week when the ERG made a couple of amendments that just ensured our negotiation remained consistent with the Lancaster House speech and the manifesto. The names you mention, Farage aside, have been bound by collective responsibility. If they do what you ask here, they effectively have to launch a leadership challenge alongside it. I'd fully expect that to happen as well from Boris if she comes back with what most expect in the Autumn, but you could never do it mid-negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 25 minutes ago, toddybad said: You're just doing Britain down. Believe in this country. It'll be worth it to take back control. It'll hurt the EU more than it hurts us. It's just project fear. The entire establishment are trying to stop Brexit. Everybody knew what they voted for. Brexit means Brexit. No deal is better than a bad deal. You forgot to add: We can strike trade deals with the whole world. I believe in democracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 For everyone else who was wondering, numbers 1 and 2 are the Boeing Everett Factory in Everett, Washington, and the Great Mosque of Mecca in Saudi Arabia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 19 hours ago, Milo said: Remind me again why leaving is a terrible idea I'm not really into all this political thing, but my mate who is really clever said if we leave with a 'No deal' then there will be earthquakes, sinkholes appearing all over the place, and an epidemic of those vampire horseflies biting every fcuker. That's really bad aint it. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 50 minutes ago, l444ry said: May and her merry band of mad Brexiteers have ruled out the Customs Union so that will wreck the Just in Time stock control system which is vital. Queues at ports will tail back into double figure miles if the predicted hold ups are anything like true Holding stock will cost companies a fortune. It doesn't take rocket science to guess where the motor trade will be going. She voted Remain didn't she? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 20 July 2018 Share Posted 20 July 2018 6 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: She voted Remain didn't she? Haha. Nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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