Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Max Wall]

Just now, Carl the Llama said:

Bet you look good in skintight leggings and a dinner jacket at least.

I love people of a similar vintage  Max Wall is lost on an entire generation.

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

@Max Wall just get out man, while you can.

 

honestly, this thread is a ****ing circus and you're better of without it. 

 

trust me. 

 

Trouble is, it's like Hotel California.

 

'You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Bet you look good in skintight leggings and a dinner jacket at least.

 

You really need to get a girlfriend, Carl.

[Max Wall]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Trouble is, it's like Hotel California.

 

'You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

Well we are all prisoners here, of our own device.

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

You really need to get a girlfriend, Carl.

Well if you find anyone you think I might like you can always direct them to my place of work. 

[Max Wall]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

Well if you find anyone you think I might like you can always direct them to my place of work. 

Said quite a few historical serial killers,

[bovril]

12 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Trouble is, it's like Hotel California.

 

Warm smell of colitis? 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

Well if you find anyone you think I might like you can always direct them to my place of work. 

 

 

Funny thing is, I had no idea where you worked - it was just pure intuition.

 

Proper rattled you, though, dinnit?

[Max Wall]

4 minutes ago, bovril said:

Warm smell of colitis? 

I presume that's an intentional typo?

Colitis - Inflammation of the inner lining of the colon

Colitas - The smell of burning weed.

 

If it isn't a typo, get some strong rolling papers @bovril

Edited 23 July 2018 by Max Wall

[bovril]

Just now, Max Wall said:

I presume that's an intentional typo?

Colitis - Inflammation of the inner lining of the colon

Colitas - The smell of burning weed.

 

If it isn't a typo, get some strong rolling papers @bovril

 

Genuinely always thought it was colitis and that's how Americans pronounced it. Makes more sense now.

Edited 23 July 2018 by bovril

[Max Wall]

Just now, bovril said:

Genuinely always thought it was colitis and that's how Americans pronounced it. 

Hahaha, smoking a inflamed colon lining would explain many Americans propensity to speak utter shite right enough.

[Carl the Llama]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

Funny thing is, I had no idea where you worked - it was just pure intuition.

 

Proper rattled you, though, dinnit?

Well you can take your intuition for a short walk off a long cliff.  

 

Preferably one in the Scandinavian nation of Finland.

[Buce]

12 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Well you can take your intuition for a short walk off a long cliff.  

 

Preferably one in the Scandinavian nation of Finland.

 

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles."

 

Sun Tzu's Art of War.

[Buce]

32 minutes ago, bovril said:

Warm smell of colitis? 

 

28 minutes ago, Max Wall said:

I presume that's an intentional typo?

Colitis - Inflammation of the inner lining of the colon

Colitas - The smell of burning weed.

 

If it isn't a typo, get some strong rolling papers @bovril

 

 

Whilst you're correct about the spelling, Max, the reference to weed is uncertain (though likely):

 

'The term "colitas" in the first stanza ("warm smell of colitas, rising up through the air") has been interpreted as a sexual slang or a reference to marijuana.^[43] "Colitas" means "little tails" in Spanish; in Mexican slang it refers to buds of the cannabis (marijuana) plant.^[44][45] According to Glenn Frey, the "warm smell" is "colitas...it means little tails, the very top of the plant."^[46] The Eagles' manager Irving Azoff appears to lend support to the marijuana hypothesis,^[47] however, Felder said: "The colitas is a plant that grows in the desert that blooms at night, and it has this kind of pungent, almost funky smell. Don Henley came up with a lot of the lyrics for that song, and he came up with colitas."^[43]'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_California

[Max Wall]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

 

Whilst you're correct about the spelling, Max, the reference to weed is uncertain (though likely):

 

'The term "colitas" in the first stanza ("warm smell of colitas, rising up through the air") has been interpreted as a sexual slang or a reference to marijuana.^[43] "Colitas" means "little tails" in Spanish; in Mexican slang it refers to buds of the cannabis (marijuana) plant.^[44][45] According to Glenn Frey, the "warm smell" is "colitas...it means little tails, the very top of the plant."^[46] The Eagles' manager Irving Azoff appears to lend support to the marijuana hypothesis,^[47] however, Felder said: "The colitas is a plant that grows in the desert that blooms at night, and it has this kind of pungent, almost funky smell. Don Henley came up with a lot of the lyrics for that song, and he came up with colitas."^[43]'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_California

In my youth, I genuinely thought he meant Fajitas but just pronounced it oddly.

[Guest]

It was more than a year ago, during the general election campaign, that Theresa May last met a member of the public. A blessing for all concerned. The prime minister can’t do touchy-feely. She can barely manage basic personal interactions with her own cabinet, let alone with people she has never set eyes on.

Yet for reasons best known to themselves, the prime minister’s minders decided the time was right to send her up to the north-east to explain in person why everyone was going to be a great deal more worse-off after Brexit. It was an idea that was as bold as it was misguided. Emotional intelligence is seemingly even harder to programme than artificial intelligence. And May is lacking in both. So what had been intended as a way of making the government seem more accessible achieved the exact opposite. Half an hour that no one present will ever get back. A black hole of existential ennui.

Somewhat later than planned, May finally stepped out on to the shop floor of an engineering factory in Newcastle to take questions from a semicircle of employees who had been press-ganged into the event. Right from the off, she looked awkward, as if she was longing for the event to be over before it had even started. The body language of the audience, all crossed arms and vacant expressions, suggested the feeling was mutual.

 

May did at least manage to identify where she was – an improvement on the morning when she had failed to realise she was in Gateshead – before going into her standard intro. It was great to be wherever she was and she looked forward to never coming back. With a bit of luck, Brexit was going to work out OK, but if it didn’t she wanted everyone to know she was only doing her best to deliver on the will of the people. So it was their fault.

“Now it’s your turn to ask me some questions,” the prime minister mumbled anxiously. Nothing. Nada. For a moment it looked as if the audience had made an unconscious collective decision that the Q&A would be cripplingly painful for everyone and had agreed to terminate it before it had even got under way. Eventually someone came up with a question. Something for which May looked pathetically grateful.

Could she explain why the EU should bother to give us a deal when the Chequers agreement was the government so obviously trying to have its cake and eat it? A silent primal scream. Of course she couldn’t. “Um ... it will be good for the EU,” she said, struggling for language. Any language. Other than English. “What I see around the EU is that it will be good.” May nodded her head vigorously, desperately trying to recall the “How to engage with normal people” YouTube video she had watched on the train up. No one nodded back. Instead a few eyes closed in despair.

Another long, embarrassing pause. Then another question. This time about a hard Brexit being damaging for the north-east. “We want to um ... ” May began, before switching to default full Maybot. “Er ... see this free-trade area we’ve been um ... talking about.” Her voice tailed off as she lost her train of thought. At least she was keeping her answers short and sweet. If incomprehensible. Better that than being honest about a Brexit she didn’t believe in.

Yet again an agonising wait for the next question. An act of sadism from an audience who had clearly decided to at least have fun while their time was being wasted. “You’ve got the worst job in the world,” one person observed. “How do you relax?” Theresa panicked. Not the personal question. Anything but the personal question. Um ... She liked to go walking. Round in circles mainly. And she liked to do some cooking, because one of the great things about cooking was that you got to eat afterwards. Then you did the washing up. Or Philip did. And if you ran out of food you went out to the supermarket. Or sometimes the corner shop if that was more convenient.

It was another wheat field moment. An insight into a world of quiet desperation. “I also er ... quite like watching,” she continued. “Has anyone else, um ... seen it? ... the American crime series NCIS.” The kiss of death. Immediately everyone present made a mental note to never watch the programme.

There was just enough time for another protracted silence before the final question. What advice did she have for working women? “Believe in yourself,” she mumbled. Something she was clearly unable to do. “And show your skills.” She had done that bit at least. They just weren’t the skills that most people associated with a prime minister.

 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

4 hours ago, toddybad said:

It was more than a year ago, during the general election campaign, that Theresa May last met a member of the public. A blessing for all concerned. The prime minister can’t do touchy-feely. She can barely manage basic personal interactions with her own cabinet, let alone with people she has never set eyes on.

Yet for reasons best known to themselves, the prime minister’s minders decided the time was right to send her up to the north-east to explain in person why everyone was going to be a great deal more worse-off after Brexit. It was an idea that was as bold as it was misguided. Emotional intelligence is seemingly even harder to programme than artificial intelligence. And May is lacking in both. So what had been intended as a way of making the government seem more accessible achieved the exact opposite. Half an hour that no one present will ever get back. A black hole of existential ennui.

Somewhat later than planned, May finally stepped out on to the shop floor of an engineering factory in Newcastle to take questions from a semicircle of employees who had been press-ganged into the event. Right from the off, she looked awkward, as if she was longing for the event to be over before it had even started. The body language of the audience, all crossed arms and vacant expressions, suggested the feeling was mutual.

 

May did at least manage to identify where she was – an improvement on the morning when she had failed to realise she was in Gateshead – before going into her standard intro. It was great to be wherever she was and she looked forward to never coming back. With a bit of luck, Brexit was going to work out OK, but if it didn’t she wanted everyone to know she was only doing her best to deliver on the will of the people. So it was their fault.

“Now it’s your turn to ask me some questions,” the prime minister mumbled anxiously. Nothing. Nada. For a moment it looked as if the audience had made an unconscious collective decision that the Q&A would be cripplingly painful for everyone and had agreed to terminate it before it had even got under way. Eventually someone came up with a question. Something for which May looked pathetically grateful.

Could she explain why the EU should bother to give us a deal when the Chequers agreement was the government so obviously trying to have its cake and eat it? A silent primal scream. Of course she couldn’t. “Um ... it will be good for the EU,” she said, struggling for language. Any language. Other than English. “What I see around the EU is that it will be good.” May nodded her head vigorously, desperately trying to recall the “How to engage with normal people” YouTube video she had watched on the train up. No one nodded back. Instead a few eyes closed in despair.

Another long, embarrassing pause. Then another question. This time about a hard Brexit being damaging for the north-east. “We want to um ... ” May began, before switching to default full Maybot. “Er ... see this free-trade area we’ve been um ... talking about.” Her voice tailed off as she lost her train of thought. At least she was keeping her answers short and sweet. If incomprehensible. Better that than being honest about a Brexit she didn’t believe in.

Yet again an agonising wait for the next question. An act of sadism from an audience who had clearly decided to at least have fun while their time was being wasted. “You’ve got the worst job in the world,” one person observed. “How do you relax?” Theresa panicked. Not the personal question. Anything but the personal question. Um ... She liked to go walking. Round in circles mainly. And she liked to do some cooking, because one of the great things about cooking was that you got to eat afterwards. Then you did the washing up. Or Philip did. And if you ran out of food you went out to the supermarket. Or sometimes the corner shop if that was more convenient.

It was another wheat field moment. An insight into a world of quiet desperation. “I also er ... quite like watching,” she continued. “Has anyone else, um ... seen it? ... the American crime series NCIS.” The kiss of death. Immediately everyone present made a mental note to never watch the programme.

There was just enough time for another protracted silence before the final question. What advice did she have for working women? “Believe in yourself,” she mumbled. Something she was clearly unable to do. “And show your skills.” She had done that bit at least. They just weren’t the skills that most people associated with a prime minister.

 

As funny as that article is, I just feel more and more sorry for ol' May.   Why do we all let her do this to herself?

Woman needs to quit that job which she is not suited to, go get a dog and run in a field and cook and then eat what she has just cooked

[Facecloth]

56 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

As funny as that article is, I just feel more and more sorry for ol' May.   Why do we all let her do this to herself?

Woman needs to quit that job which she is not suited to, go get a dog and run in a field and cook and then eat what she has just cooked

She put herself forward for it, and there's been plenty of calls for her to quit, but she stays. No sympathy from me. Nobody is forcing her to do it.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

2 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

She put herself forward for it, and there's been plenty of calls for her to quit, but she stays. No sympathy from me. Nobody is forcing her to do it.

Fair point

[Izzy]

6 hours ago, toddybad said:

The prime minister can’t do touchy-feely. She can barely manage basic personal interactions with her own cabinet, let alone with people she has never set eyes on.

 

Reminds me a bit of Gordon Brown. He struggled in the same way.

 

I remember when his wife had to get up on stage at the Labour party conference to tell everyone that he was actually a nice bloke.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Reminds me a bit of Gordon Brown. He struggled in the same way.

 

I remember when his wife had to get up on stage at the Labour party conference to tell everyone that he was actually a nice bloke.

That weird smile they taught him to do *shudder*

 

 

[Buce]

Millions of families 'worse off' than 15 years ago

Millions of "just about managing" families are no better off today than those in 2003, new research from the Resolution Foundation indicates.

The remarkable income stagnation for so many reveals that the economy has been failing to generate income for people over many years despite record levels of people in work.

In 2003, households on the lower half of incomes typically earnt £14,900.

In 2016/17 that figure had fallen to £14,800, the research shows.

Both figures are adjusted for inflation and housing costs.

There are over eight million low and middle income households, just under half of which have children.

And it is not just poorer households which have been facing a pay squeeze.

On average, incomes for all households in 2017/18 increased by just 0.9%, the lowest rise for four years and less than half the average between 1994 and 2007, just before the financial crisis.

For the poorest third of households, incomes actually fell by up to £150 in the last year.

The Resolution Foundation report said that surveys revealed that over 40% of low to middle income families feel they would be unable to save £10 a month and over 35% would be unable to afford a holiday for one week with their children.

 

 

"We appear to have a picture of generalised stagnation for many, with lower income households actually going backwards," the Resolution Foundation's Living Standards Audit says.

"The apparent falling away of the bottom from the middle in 2017/18 represents a disturbing new development.

"This pattern has clear implications for poverty - captured by the number of people living in households with incomes below 60% of the median [the middle figure of a set of income figures ranked from high to low].

"There are good odds that 2017/18 delivered a notable increase [in poverty].

"Relative child poverty may have risen to its highest rate in at least 15 years, despite high levels of employment."

 

 

"Child poverty" is calculated by the number of under-16s living in a household that earns less than 60% of the average income.

The big questions are why the income stagnation has happened and what can be done about it.

On the "why", research by the Foundation - which was set up to look at the problem of low incomes - reveals that the economy has struggled to create wealth for people in work.

Although employment rates are high, which is good for those in work, many of the jobs are lower paid.

That's because people who are moving from unemployment into employment, such as single parents, tend to take jobs towards the lower end of income levels.

Once in jobs there is also a lack of "progression" into higher paid jobs.

Productivity puzzle

Productivity levels for the whole economy - the ability to create more value for every hour somebody works - have also been poor since the financial crisis.

Rather than investing in new innovations - such as computer technology or robots which could increase the amount people produce - firms have been holding onto cash to get them through the tougher economic conditions.

What are called "non-wage costs" have also increased.

Businesses now have to pay more into employees' pensions and, for larger firms, have to pay costs such as the apprenticeship levy to encourage better standards of training.

Managers have also been criticised for being too conservative about taking on new ways of working.

Benefit cuts since 2010 also affect lower income households far more than those on higher incomes.

Put those factors alongside the poor economic growth the UK has been experiencing, along with many other developed Western economies, since 2008 and the reasons behind the living standards problem become clearer.

 

When it comes to solutions, the key is productivity.

Economists argue that once in work, people should be encouraged to apply for promotions, increasing their skill levels and their pay.

Firms should be encouraged to invest in innovations to make their firms more efficient and better able to create wealth for every hour worked.

Better economic growth, which leads to higher incomes, is reliant on a number of factors - certainty about the future (in relatively low supply at present because of the Brexit process); global growth (Britain is an exporting nation so the better growth is elsewhere, the better for the UK); and investment in better and higher-value skilled jobs (which means focusing on education and skills and making managers better at exploiting opportunities that are available).

Without a firm focus on such issues, the Resolution Foundation report reveals that, over the next decade, it is likely that "just about managing" families are likely to remain just that.

[Guest]

Biggest rise in poverty since Thatcher. It's the weird thing about the Tories - they're generally trusted with the economy despite the fact the completely nobble ordinary people every time they get into power.

Edited 24 July 2018 by Guest

[Finnegan]

13 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Well you can take your intuition for a short walk off a long cliff.  

 

Preferably one in the Nordic nation of Finland.

 

[Jon the Hat]

17 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Did anyone who believes they voted Brexit because they want the EU to change ever try voting for/communicating with their MEP to that effect?

Yes I voted for Dan Hannan knowing full well he was trying to change the EU or leave.  I have also communicated with him a number of times.