We need to talk about Wilfred Ndidi

[Tom12345]

9 minutes ago, Beechey said:

Just back from New Year's celebrations but in my minimal capacity to read and I think, I think I agree with you. I hope I remember to give you the response you deserve in the morning!

Rather drunk right now Happy New Year's, Tom!

Happy New Year too mate! Cheers

[Tom12345]

44 minutes ago, Del Najan said:

Tom12345, I honestly fail to understand your point. You started out ridiculing the psychological references in my post. By so doing, you're actually exhibiting an abnormal psychology that reveals itself in your pure Pavlovian response to my post. I must've hit some raw nerves or particularly provoked you by my post to warrant your ad hominem attacks.

Wilfred Ndidi doesn't have to convert all his shots to be a descent striker of the ball from range. All descent CM'S in football frequently attempt those shots with varying levels of success. Matic, Romeu, Fernandinho,  Idrissa Gueye, Wanyama, Iborra etc None of the aforementioned has scored more than 2 goals this season, despite attempting several shots per game. 

Speaking of technique, in the 2015-2016 season Wilf was awarded the goal of the season in Jupiler pro league for a super long range effort while he played for Genk. He's scored about 3 more long range shots since he's been in the premier league. So how about you mention other CM'S in the premier league in the same period with a better conversion rate from 25+ yards? 

You mention Andros Townsend who plays as an attack minded midfielder for Palace; gets in better shooting position, and yet he only has 2 or 3 goals for the season and only scored once last season. Apart from the goal against City,how many has he struck from the range Wilf attempts his shots? 

There are no solutions; there are trade- offs. His height, aerial prowess,  tackling ability, stamina, aggression,  motor( relentless running), offer so much to the team, that the moment he doesn't play is when he becomes conspicuous by his absence. 

I remember once when he was dropped in the premier league this season that the midfield was in utter shambles; Iborra ended up getting hurt, and ultimately Wilf had to be subbed in to replace him. 

Honestly, only when you have played in that position would you realize the difficulty of those long range efforts.  Demarai Gray has ballooned more balls over the Stands than Ndidi ,despite shooting in and around the opponents box!!

 

I don’t know Del Najan, but football aside, happy new year to you too mate. No offense intended. Cheers

[gurru991]

Ndidi has nothing but upside, he is young and very athletic. He needs quality coaching to keep improving but I am not sure he is getting that at the moment. His game has not improved this season so far and that worries me. Remember that Kante was 24 when he arrived at City and blossomed that year. I'm not questioning Ndidi, I'm questioning the coaching staff.

[Del Najan]

5 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

I don’t know Del Najan, but football aside, happy new year to you too mate. No offense intended. Cheers

Likewise!! Best of luck in the New Year. Gratitude. 

[Kitotac]

On 31/12/2018 at 20:26, Del Najan said:

It's always the case that some CM's with a high work rate, aerial ability and physical presence and stamina goes underappreciated. 

Unai Emery made a similar mistake against Liverpool on Sunday. The French 19 year old midfielder Guendozzi is in a similar mold to Ndidi and Choudhury: technically not excellent, but extreme motor levels ( high work rate...taking up space, denying space, chasing Everything that moves around the area, winning aerial balls). Had he simply played Guendozzi in place of the Uruguayan Lucas Torreira...that game would have been a very tight affair or even Arsenal winning it. 

Simply crazy to play a very weak Torreira against the likes of Sadio Mane, Bobby Firminho. Any fool knew exactly what the outcome of that pairing of Torreira and Xhaka would result it.

That's the value players of Ndidi, Choudhury, Guendozzi and so many others in the league bring to the table. You only notice it when they are absent in the game and that's why all our coaches are reluctant to drop him from games.

Well you can say that again 

[NaijaFox]

On 31/12/2018 at 00:22, Tom12345 said:

The modern game, especially the one Puel wants the team to play, requires all players, especially the CMs, to be decent on the ball and can pass at least at PL standard (doesn’t have to be world class). If he is not there yet, he deserves to be dropped. It is baffling when Puel demands the same from other positions such as from our full backs (eg. this is why he does not like Simpson) and CDs (eg. why he prefers MacGuire over a better defender in Evans), but not the same from the CM that holds the team together. He doesn’t need to make that killer pass in the final third, but he should at least be able to quickly link up play (in a good manner) between the defense and the likes of Maddison, Albrington and other forward players. All good teams have the ability to break very quickly and the most important is that 1 second after we get the ball back in our own half. You can either pass up field very quickly in a creative manner (what we did very well in the past) or we wait or pass sideways allowing the opposition to get back on D. This is where Ndidi fails miserably. You cannot just say this is others’ job because Ndidi occupies the middle and half the time he will be there and chances don’t come often (in PL you really have to seize your chance)! But some fans don’t realize this. What we can see afterwards is that we have no choice but to be seen as having to break down defense slowly against a team that “sits back”, like what you said. But this doesn’t have to be the case. This is why many have been calling for Ndidi to be dropped! Do we still want to play to our strength or not? If not, keep picking Ndidi and watch us trying very hard to break down defense that “sits back” and lose.

 

We played better against Chelsea and Man City because, ironically, Hamza was there as extra cover so Ndidi did not need to get the ball as much. 

 

Defensively, despite this being his greatest strength, has been somewhat sloppy as well recently. While I appreciate he doesn’t foul as much nowadays, he has been at fault a few times recently including the Cardiff for not closing down - he was clearly the closet player who should have closed down. 

 

I think he can improve, and as I said in a previous post, he has shown that he has a good football brain - he can attempt the right pass; but his techniques are still substandard. He is getting better though and I think he can be a great player in 2-3 years, but right now, just like others, when he should be dropped, he should be dropped.

The irony is that Ndidi has more assists (and goals) this season than Mendy, Silva and Iborra COMBINED (granted the latter duo have hardly seen any EPL playing time - and deservedly so, I might add) - albeit it a grand total of 1 (). 

 

NONE of Mendy, Silva nor Iborra has remotely shown any ability ALL season to “pass up field very quickly in a creative manner”. In fact, the last I saw any of our CMs make a pass over and behind the opposition defense in anything resembling a “creative manner” was Wilf’s pinpoint pass leading to Albrighton’s equalizer against Man City in the League Cup. Wilf completes 3 out of 4 passes (about 76% for the season), which for someone that regularly leads the team in touches is more than decent enough. Sure, a lot of those passes are sideways but that should not be a problem for much the same crowd here on FT that repeatedly orgasms over Mendy’s 5-yard sideways shuffle.

[Chocolate Teapot]

35 minutes ago, NaijaFox said:

The irony is that Ndidi has more assists (and goals) this season than Mendy, Silva and Iborra COMBINED (granted the latter duo have hardly seen any EPL playing time - and deservedly so, I might add) - albeit it a grand total of 1 (). 

 

NONE of Mendy, Silva nor Iborra has remotely shown any ability ALL season to “pass up field very quickly in a creative manner”. In fact, the last I saw any of our CMs make a pass over and behind the opposition defense in anything resembling a “creative manner” was Wilf’s pinpoint pass leading to Albrighton’s equalizer against Man City in the League Cup. Wilf completes 3 out of 4 passes (about 76% for the season), which for someone that regularly leads the team in touches is more than decent enough. Sure, a lot of those passes are sideways but that should not be a problem for much the same crowd here on FT that repeatedly orgasms over Mendy’s 5-yard sideways shuffle.

Disagree with that on Iborra, reason hes not in the side IMO is that he takes on the risky passes and tries to move it. Agree on Mendy, i like him but still think a three of hamza, mendy and ndidi is overkill.

 

Right now id go Iborra, Hamza and Mendy, but Mendy seems undroppable.

[NaijaFox]

11 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said:

Disagree with that on Iborra, reason hes not in the side IMO is that he takes on the risky passes and tries to move it. Agree on Mendy, i like him but still think a three of hamza, mendy and ndidi is overkill.

 

Right now id go Iborra, Hamza and Mendy, but Mendy seems undroppable.

Iborra started in the game against Brighton and was simply gash (feel free to refer to the match thread for contemporaneous comments on his performance), until mercifully he was slightly injured and withdrawn shortly after the half-hour. His one asset is that (like Wilf) he can win his fair share of headers but that is offset by the fact he is even slower than the Brexit negotiations, and thus often leaves us short-handed when he makes those...er...”risky” passes that never seem to come off. Good experienced squad player to have handy, but has thus far proven to be not much else.

[Chocolate Teapot]

Just now, NaijaFox said:

Iborra started in the game against Brighton and was simply gash (feel free to refer to the match thread for contemporaneous comments on his performance), until mercifully he was slightly injured and withdrawn shortly after the half-hour. His one asset is that (like Wilf) he can win his fair share of headers but that is offset by the fact he is even slower than the Brexit negotiations, and thus often leaves us short-handed when he makes those...er...”risky” passes that never seem to come off. Good experienced squad player to have handy, but has thus far proven to be not much else.

He's easily the best passer of the ball we've got.

 

He was poor against Brighton, but he was thrown in after no games. In the 5 game spell last year where we beat spurs, Iborra was outstanding but has been in and out ever since then.

 

The Stoke game last year he was the best player on the pitch, if you think his only quality is headers then im afraid ill have to disagree with you.

[Koke]

I like him but I don't see his technique and passing improving drastically. 

 

Ndidi will never be a Romeu or Nzonzi.

[NaijaFox]

Just now, Abrasive fox said:

He's easily the best passer of the ball we've got.

 

He was poor against Brighton, but he was thrown in after no games. In the 5 game spell last year where we beat spurs, Iborra was outstanding but has been in and out ever since then.

 

The Stoke game last year he was the best player on the pitch, if you think his only quality is headers then im afraid ill have to disagree with you.

So was Nacho in the late spell last season (and even during this preseason)... 

 

I try very hard not to make precipitous judgements based on only a handful of games (much less the single game he started this season), but frankly there is now enough of a body of work (including cup appearances) to show that he will be nothing more for us than that experienced and sometimes impactful player to bring off the bench or to use in cup games (which at this point is still way better than Silva has shown thus far). 

[NaijaFox]

21 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said:

He's easily the best passer of the ball we've got.

 

He was poor against Brighton, but he was thrown in after no games. In the 5 game spell last year where we beat spurs, Iborra was outstanding but has been in and out ever since then.

 

The Stoke game last year he was the best player on the pitch, if you think his only quality is headers then im afraid ill have to disagree with you.

Btw, on what is the highlighted based?

 

Vicente made 17 appearances for us last season and recorded just as many assists as he had managed this season - ZERO! Even Wilf with his dodgy passing still contrived to record 3 assists last season (albeit over 33 appearances), and was only slightly worse in pass completion percentage (76% vs 81%).

Edited 2 January 2019 by NaijaFox

[Tom12345]

1 hour ago, Abrasive fox said:

Disagree with that on Iborra, reason hes not in the side IMO is that he takes on the risky passes and tries to move it. Agree on Mendy, i like him but still think a three of hamza, mendy and ndidi is overkill.

 

Right now id go Iborra, Hamza and Mendy, but Mendy seems undroppable.

I feel for Iborra. He had a good run towards end of 2017 and earned great reviews from everyone including the papers. I recall seeing a nice article about how important he was to Leicester. Then, for reasons unexplained, he got dropped whilst still playing top football, and he has since played a bit part. When you only play a bit part, of course your performances will be affected and he nonetheless gets slammed from fans here whenever he gets into the side every now and then conveniently forgetting how good he was when he was playing regularly before he was dropped.

 

I would agree to try Iborra, Hamza and Mendy, but unfortunately that will never happen with Puel. Even if it does, it will be for an odd game which means they will not get the rhythm they need to show what they can do.

Edited 2 January 2019 by Tom12345

[Chocolate Teapot]

11 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

I feel for Iborra. He had a good run towards end of 2017 and earned great reviews from everyone including the papers. I recall seeing a nice article about how important he was to Leicester. Then, for reasons unexplained, he got dropped whilst still playing top football, and he has since played a bit part. When you only play a bit part, of course your performances will be affected and he nonetheless gets slammed from fans here whenever he gets into the side every now and then conveniently forgetting how good he was when he was playing regularly before he was dropped.

 

I would agree to try Iborra, Hamza and Mendy, but unfortunately that will never happen with Puel. Even if it does, it will be for an odd game which means they will not get the rythem they need to show what they can do.

Exactly.

 

32 minutes ago, NaijaFox said:

Btw, on what is the highlighted based?

 

Vicente made 17 appearances for us last season and recorded just as many assists as he had managed this season - ZERO! Even Wilf with his dodgy passing still contrived to record 3 assists last season (albeit over 33 appearances), and was only slightly worse in pass completion percentage (76% vs 81%).

5 percent is a lot particularly when most of Ndidis are sideways or back.

 

Edited 2 January 2019 by Abrasive fox

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

3 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

I feel for Iborra. He had a good run towards end of 2017 and earned great reviews from everyone including the papers. I recall seeing a nice article about how important he was to Leicester. Then, for reasons unexplained, he got dropped whilst still playing top football, and he has since played a bit part. When you only play a bit part, of course your performances will be affected and he nonetheless gets slammed from fans here whenever he gets into the side every now and then conveniently forgetting how good he was when he was playing regularly before he was dropped.

 

I would agree to try Iborra, Hamza and Mendy, but unfortunately that will never happen with Puel. Even if it does, it will be for an odd game which means they will not get the rhythm they need to show what they can do.

Never really felt Iborra was that great for us.  He's not the answer.  Think Silva would have more potential but we can all forget that now it seems.  Neither of them have seemed particularly suited to us.  I like about Iborra that he dives around a lot and tries to con the ref. Nice to have a c*** like that on our side for once, novel

[les-tah]

On ‎01‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 05:03, gurru991 said:

Ndidi has nothing but upside, he is young and very athletic. He needs quality coaching to keep improving but I am not sure he is getting that at the moment. His game has not improved this season so far and that worries me. Remember that Kante was 24 when he arrived at City and blossomed that year. I'm not questioning Ndidi, I'm questioning the coaching staff.

unfair to question the coaches based on 1 player..

 

do you question the coaching staff when you have Ben Chilwell, Hamza Choudhry, Mendy etc etc all coming on Leaps and bounds? Maybe question Ndidi himself?

[gurru991]

6 hours ago, les-tah said:

unfair to question the coaches based on 1 player..

 

do you question the coaching staff when you have Ben Chilwell, Hamza Choudhry, Mendy etc etc all coming on Leaps and bounds? Maybe question Ndidi himself?

Hamza has played three games so far so no judgement just yet

Mendy has deteriorated this season, his passing has got worse.

Chilwell is a product of the last ten years, he didn't all of a sudden  become good

Ndidi ticks a lot of boxes but his passing needs improvement. Thats where coaching comes in.

[les-tah]

19 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

Hamza has played three games so far so no judgement just yet

Mendy has deteriorated this season, his passing has got worse.

Chilwell is a product of the last ten years, he didn't all of a sudden  become good

Ndidi ticks a lot of boxes but his passing needs improvement. Thats where coaching comes in.

AKA coaching  

Edited 2 January 2019 by les-tah

[Col city fan]

13 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

The irony is that Ndidi has more assists (and goals) this season than Mendy, Silva and Iborra COMBINED (granted the latter duo have hardly seen any EPL playing time - and deservedly so, I might add) - albeit it a grand total of 1 (). 

 

NONE of Mendy, Silva nor Iborra has remotely shown any ability ALL season to “pass up field very quickly in a creative manner”. In fact, the last I saw any of our CMs make a pass over and behind the opposition defense in anything resembling a “creative manner” was Wilf’s pinpoint pass leading to Albrighton’s equalizer against Man City in the League Cup. Wilf completes 3 out of 4 passes (about 76% for the season), which for someone that regularly leads the team in touches is more than decent enough. Sure, a lot of those passes are sideways but that should not be a problem for much the same crowd here on FT that repeatedly orgasms over Mendy’s 5-yard sideways shuffle.

Another good post matey. All this stuff about Mendy being a better passer of the ball than Ndidi. Neither of them could pass straight in the first half against Everton.

But I maintain, Wilf is a crucial member of a team currently sat 7th in the best league in the world. No way would a drop him or sell him.

[coolhandfox]

I don't understand why people don't think a player can still keep developing, he is 22, not even in his prime.

 

Make far more sense to invest in developing a 22 year old Ndidi, then a 29 year old Iborra.  

[Nicolo Barella]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

Another good post matey. All this stuff about Mendy being a better passer of the ball than Ndidi. Neither of them could pass straight in the first half against Everton.

But I maintain, Wilf is a crucial member of a team currently sat 7th in the best league in the world. No way would a drop him or sell him.

Apparently La Liga is mathematically better

[The Doctor]

2 hours ago, gurru991 said:

Mendy has deteriorated this season, his passing has got worse.

Deteriorated from what? Remember he's spent most of his career here injured. Even then, he's looked better this season than he did under Ranieri, although thats not necessarily fair, he did get his run at the end of Ranieris reign when everyone was awful

[Tringfox]

On 01/01/2019 at 05:03, gurru991 said:

Ndidi has nothing but upside, he is young and very athletic. He needs quality coaching to keep improving but I am not sure he is getting that at the moment. His game has not improved this season so far and that worries me. Remember that Kante was 24 when he arrived at City and blossomed that year. I'm not questioning Ndidi, I'm questioning the coaching staff.

The way Ndidi tackles and intercepts is purely instinctive and natural and I guarantee no matter how decent the coach is you just can’t teach it!

The same applies with the technical side of his game, it’s simply not part of his game and not in his dna and no matter how much the coaches work with him he will always struggle with that side of his game! 

[coolhandfox]

12 minutes ago, Tringfox said:

The way Ndidi tackles and intercepts is purely instinctive and natural and I guarantee no matter how decent the coach is you just can’t teach it!

The same applies with the technical side of his game, it’s simply not part of his game and not in his dna and no matter how much the coaches work with him he will always struggle with that side of his game! 

Sorry this things can get developed and coached, sometimes it about hardwork and time. 

Edited 2 January 2019 by coolhandfox

[AylestoneRaider]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Sorry this things can get developed and coached, sometimes it about hardwork and time. 

Agreed - he might not be the next Glen Hoddle, but there’s no reason why his passing can’t be improved to the point where it is not hampering his progress. I actually think Wilf has been used heavily by us since his arrival and is badly in need of some rest, which is not helping because he looks physically and mentally fatigued.