We need to talk about Wilfred Ndidi

[Tom12345]

8 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

His stats tell a different story.

 

We watch the games and not the stats ...

[skelly61]

32 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

The modern game, especially the one Puel wants the team to play, requires all players, especially the CMs, to be decent on the ball and can pass at least at PL standard (doesn’t have to be world class). If he is not there yet, he deserves to be dropped. It is baffling when Puel demands the same from other positions such as from our full backs (eg. this is why he does not like Simpson) and CDs (eg. why he prefers MacGuire over a better defender in Evans), but not the same from the CM that holds the team together. He doesn’t need to make that killer pass in the final third, but he should at least be able to quickly link up play (in a good manner) between the defense and the likes of Maddison, Albrington and other forward players. All good teams have the ability to break very quickly and the most important is that 1 second after we get the ball back in our own half. You can either pass up field very quickly in a creative manner (what we did very well in the past) or we wait or pass sideways allowing the opposition to get back on D. This is where Ndidi fails miserably. You cannot just say this is others’ job because Ndidi occupies the middle and half the time he will be there and chances don’t come often (in PL you really have to seize your chance)! But some fans don’t realize this. What we can see afterwards is that we have no choice but to be seen as having to break down defense slowly against a team that “sits back”, like what you said. But this doesn’t have to be the case. This is why many have been calling for Ndidi to be dropped! Do we still want to play to our strength or not? If not, keep picking Ndidi and watch us trying very hard to break down defense that “sits back” and lose.

 

We played better against Chelsea and Man City because, ironically, Hamza was there as extra cover so Ndidi did not need to get the ball as much. 

 

Defensively, despite this being his greatest strength, has been somewhat sloppy as well recently. While I appreciate he doesn’t foul as much nowadays, he has been at fault a few times recently including the Cardiff for not closing down - he was clearly the closet player who should have closed down. 

 

I think he can improve, and as I said in a previous post, he has shown that he has a good football brain - he can attempt the right pass; but his techniques are still substandard. He is getting better though and I think he can be a great player in 2-3 years, but right now, just like others, when he should be dropped, he should be dropped.

Totally agree he is not playing at the top of his game and we need to change ,the most dangerous man on the pitch is the man with the ball as the ball was travelling to Camarasa the nearest player to Camarasa should quickly close down/challenge Ndidi did not react it was Mendy who reacted and sprinted to close down ,Ndidi should of sprinted to close and his angle of approach would of prevented the shot.While i do not advocate sacking managers something has to change as Puel keeps persisting to play Ndidi and Mendy however Mendy has been impressive 

[bfox]

On 29/12/2018 at 19:12, Usafox1 said:

 

Really? Ndidi did his job like he always does but gets picked on likely because he's African. Meanwhile the likes of Madison can have   pathetic games and still get a pass.  When we win its usually because of defensive efforts not attacking. Get a real attacking player to replace Madison and this team will improve..

No offense mate but that one of the most dillusional posts I've seen on here.

[Guest MattP]

16 hours ago, Kitotac said:

Maybe we'll all come to our senses when bids starts coming in for him from city and the big boys,.

Anyone who thinks Man City will be interested in NDidi is completely deluded.

 

Pep didn't sign Jorginho in the end because he had reservations whether his passing was good enough for them.

[Nicolo Barella]

58 minutes ago, MattP said:

Anyone who thinks Man City will be interested in NDidi is completely deluded.

 

Pep didn't sign Jorginho in the end because he had reservations whether his passing was good enough for them.

The only thing about Jorginho that stands out is his passing. Pep didn't sign him because Chelsea took a dump on City, no other reason

[lcfc sheff]

9 hours ago, Abrasive fox said:

If a decent bid comes in i'd happily sell.

 

There hasnt been one though nor is there likely to be, his passing would be shown up big time at a bigger club. His stats might look good but when you watch him you realise how limited he is.

 

Hes miles off kante for me and hasnt improved much in 2 years.

Puel seems to be attempting to try and improve him but as a b2b midfielder, if we see some major improvement towards the end of the season (more goals, assists and decent passing) then keep but otherwise I actually think we’d atleast double our money on him. Which isn’t a bad thing.

[Col city fan]

Only on FT do a proportion of our ‘fans’ happily consider selling Wilf Ndidi whilst being overjoyed that we’ve given Dan Amartey a long contract extension.

I despair. What games are some of you guys watching?

Why on earth would we want to offload a 22 yr old midfielder who has been played consistently by three separate managers in front of the others we have including James, King, Silva, Iborra. It ain’t like we’ve got quality in that department is it!

We should be going all guns to keep our Wilf Ndidi’s our Harry Maguires and our Ben Chilwells and at the same time shipping out the sheer volume of crap we have 

Edited 31 December 2018 by Col city fan

[AKCJ]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

Anyone who thinks Man City will be interested in NDidi is completely deluded.

 

Pep didn't sign Jorginho in the end because he had reservations whether his passing was good enough for them.

Highly doubt that considering he averaged around 100 passes per game for Napoli last season.

[Chocolate Teapot]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

Only on FT do a proportion of our ‘fans’ happily consider selling Wilf Ndidi whilst being overjoyed that we’ve given Dan Amartey a long contract extension.

I despair. What games are some of you guys watching?

Why on earth would we want to offload a 22 yr old midfielder who has been played consistently by three separate managers in front of the others we have including James, King, Silva, Iborra. It ain’t like we’ve got quality in that department is it!

We should be going all guns to keep our Wilf Ndidi’s our Harry Maguires and our Ben Chilwells and at the same time shipping out the sheer volume of crap we have 

Because we'd probably get 50m for one and not much more than 10 for the other.

[Col city fan]

19 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said:

Because we'd probably get 50m for one and not much more than 10 for the other.

What so that we can go and blow another 60 mill on the likes of Musa, Nacho and Slim

No thanks, I’d rather keep Ndidi..

[GingerrrFox]

With having Hamza in the squad, I’d gladly sell Ndidi for £40 million+ to allow us to strengthen areas where we are lacking quality. Other than height I can’t see how Ndidi offers anything that Hamza doesn’t and to be honest Hamza is a more accomplished passer of the ball. 

 

The drop in ability for me is marginal between Hamza and Ndidi whereas as the drop in quality between Vardy and our other strikers is huge. As is the drop in quality from Mahrez to Ghezzal. If a big bid for Ndidi came in, I’d sell and invest in a winger and a striker. 

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, GingerrrFox said:

With having Hamza in the squad, I’d gladly sell Ndidi for £40 million+ to allow us to strengthen areas where we are lacking quality. Other than height I can’t see how Ndidi offers anything that Hamza doesn’t and to be honest Hamza is a more accomplished passer of the ball. 

 

The drop in ability for me is marginal between Hamza and Ndidi whereas as the drop in quality between Vardy and our other strikers is huge. As is the drop in quality from Mahrez to Ghezzal. If a big bid for Ndidi came in, I’d sell and invest in a winger and a striker. 

We don’t need to ‘invest’

We have bags of money I believe? We don’t need to sell our young stars to fund a winger and a striker! 

We just need good ones ffs!

I know we had to sell Kante but look how that was invested.. in Musa and Slimani

The mind boggles on here sometimes..

Edited 31 December 2018 by Col city fan

[coolhandfox]

He need a ball playing partner, Ndidi are Mendy are too similar, but I still pick Mendy ahead of him at the moment.

[Del Najan]

Wilf's shots are sometimes on target. He attempts plenty of them and consequently misses a few. And he takes them from range as well. A skill very few CM's actually possess. Yet, he's scored once from range and came mighty close against Chelsea. Neither Mendy nor Choudhury have shown this aptitude for the long range shot. 

Yes Mendy's passing might be marginally better than Wilf's ,but Wilf covers more ground and disrupts the flow of the opponent's game than any other CM we currently have.

In addition,  his aerial ability is also maybe only second to Harry Maguire in the entire team and this is a major asset in that middle of the park, where he wins so many headers in the course of a game.

Like some have previously stated, it's not merely a coincidence that all 3 successive coaches have played him in that position. 

I think the thing with forums like this is that One has no way of verifying the ages and experiences or lack thereof of the Posters. Quite frankly, some might have never played this game and are just so wet behind the ears that the comments provoke nothing but pure astonishment.  Surely, if he was that bad all these Coaches....and I can bet the bottom dollar ...if Puel's successor comes in...will also consistently rely on him to shield that back four.

It's a psychological bias of human misjudgment to react in this way when you lose close games and attempt to apportion blames...essentially scapegoating mechanism. 

Yet, if anybody should be that scapegoat after the loss over the weekend then James Madisson should have to shoulder that responsibility!!!

Absolutely criminal to cost your team in that way, Especially after the sissy penalty shot against city and to follow it up with that against Cardiff.

Again, the  great tragedy of this whole dreadful situation is that if Vardy is not in the field, and another penalty gets awarded...this same James Madisson will somehow step up again to take the penalty. The imagination itself revolts at the treachery of it all!!!

For my part,  you miss penalty twice in a season, the responsibility immediately passes on to the next player! Players in that team like Ricardo, Iheanacho are known to be balotelli- like from the spot; yet, your leaving points on the field by having mediocre players take your penalties. 

I know of course some players rely on the PK to pad their stats...won't mention names!

Bon Nouveau L'annie tout le monde

[Stadt]

Foxestalk: Ndidi looks quite limited on the ball unfortunately, he's not currently playing to his strengths and perhaps we shouldn't play our current system so often in games against weaker opponents?

 

Some bloke: Is it cos he's African????

[Beechey]

12 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

We watch the games and not the stats ...

"Watching the game" only is often misleading though. Silva had a game last season where everyone slated him for "misplacing basically all of his passes", I went and watched the entire game only watching him, and he misplaced like 5 passes. Just so happened that those 5 passes he misplaced stood out so much it masked him making his other 60-odd passes successfully. People remember bad stuff more easily than good stuff, so misplacing the odd awful pass will stay in the memory more than making 40 more simple passes.

 

Football fans always seem to have a target fixation on the negative. Taking a step back and viewing everything again, including looking at the data is often a good source for a proper evaluation of a performance.

Edited 31 December 2018 by Beechey

[Tringfox]

5 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Only on FT do a proportion of our ‘fans’ happily consider selling Wilf Ndidi whilst being overjoyed that we’ve given Dan Amartey a long contract extension.

I despair. What games are some of you guys watching?

Why on earth would we want to offload a 22 yr old midfielder who has been played consistently by three separate managers in front of the others we have including James, King, Silva, Iborra. It ain’t like we’ve got quality in that department is it!

We should be going all guns to keep our Wilf Ndidi’s our Harry Maguires and our Ben Chilwells and at the same time shipping out the sheer volume of crap we have 

I personally don’t agree with giving Amartey a long contract extension and I have to ask you what games you’ve been watching if you honestly think Ndidi is the future?

The only reason he’s been played in front of the likes of Iborra, king and silva is their simply not good enough!

Ndidi will never be a top 4 player because as you said yourself in the past the technical side “is not part of his game”. And the sad thing about it is it never will be! 

 

 

[Del Najan]

It's always the case that some CM's with a high work rate, aerial ability and physical presence and stamina goes underappreciated. 

Unai Emery made a similar mistake against Liverpool on Sunday. The French 19 year old midfielder Guendozzi is in a similar mold to Ndidi and Choudhury: technically not excellent, but extreme motor levels ( high work rate...taking up space, denying space, chasing Everything that moves around the area, winning aerial balls). Had he simply played Guendozzi in place of the Uruguayan Lucas Torreira...that game would have been a very tight affair or even Arsenal winning it. 

Simply crazy to play a very weak Torreira against the likes of Sadio Mane, Bobby Firminho. Any fool knew exactly what the outcome of that pairing of Torreira and Xhaka would result it.

That's the value players of Ndidi, Choudhury, Guendozzi and so many others in the league bring to the table. You only notice it when they are absent in the game and that's why all our coaches are reluctant to drop him from games.

[Foxxed]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

Foxestalk: Ndidi looks quite limited on the ball unfortunately, he's not currently playing to his strengths and perhaps we shouldn't play our current system so often in games against weaker opponents?

 

Some bloke: Is it cos he's African????

It's a bit annoying really.

 

Of course some, and hopefully a minority, will be a lot more likely to get on his back because of his colour.

 

But others, and hopefully the majority, will get on his back because of his performances.

 

Sadly some will assume the former without waiting to hear if it's the latter.

[gurru991]

3 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

He need a ball playing partner, Ndidi are Mendy are too similar, but I still pick Mendy ahead of him at the moment.

I agree with you about similarity but I would give Ndidi the nod over Mendy at the moment as long as we partner him with someone who can pass.  

I was surprised that Puel stated that Choudhury didn't offer an offensive threat as I thought he offered more than both Ndidi & Mendy

[Tom12345]

3 hours ago, Beechey said:

"Watching the game" only is often misleading though. Silva had a game last season where everyone slated him for "misplacing basically all of his passes", I went and watched the entire game only watching him, and he misplaced like 5 passes. Just so happened that those 5 passes he misplaced stood out so much it masked him making his other 60-odd passes successfully. People remember bad stuff more easily than good stuff, so misplacing the odd awful pass will stay in the memory more than making 40 more simple passes.

 

Football fans always seem to have a target fixation on the negative. Taking a step back and viewing everything again, including looking at the data is often a good source for a proper evaluation of a performance.

I respect your perspective on this Beechey, but my observations are quite different.

 

Del Najan above also made it look like he is a doctor analysing human psychology but without actually seeing the patient or understanding the context.

 

I have watched Ndidi over a long period of time (not one or a few games). My observations and indeed many other similar views here have been made for a long time.

 

Firstly, let’s take Silva out of this discussion. This is misleading. In any event, I didn’t say Silva “misplaced all his passes” so not sure of the relevance. In fact, I agree with you, I think Silva has been hard done by. This can be observed on the pitch - no need stats for that. But I am not saying stats are not valid evidence - but stats are limited. Your observation on Silva only came about because you actually watched the games. You can pass backwards to the keeper all day within 10 yards of him, the keep will get to all of them, and the stats will record passing accuracy of 100%. Does that say that he is a great creative/forward passer of the ball? Those who solely rely on stats here will seemingly say yes! But if you watch the game, you won’t say that at all.

 

As for Ndidi, more in response to Del Najan, despite his focus on fallacies of human psychology, he seems to suffer from the same as shown in the same post. Quoting Ndidi’s long range shooting as a special skill he has is obviously based on only watching highlights on youtube for a few mins a game. If you watch the entire games the whole year, then, as some fans have also commented on here before, you will see that he has only ever been successful that one time (as Del Najan also himself mentioned!). He tried many many times since, and apart from that one shot against Chelsea, most of his attempts are to row Z. I don’t have a problem with long range shooting at all - and missing is not a problem - but when you watch him, his techniques were all wrong. You can see that he had no chance at all. His shooting skills are very different to those of Townsend from Palace - now he is a decent shooter of the ball from range. (Sorry not meant to be a dig at Del Najan but it needs clarification).

 

Ndidi will improve. He is picked because of his running, his height, his stamina and his football brain. He is easy to pick I agree when you first come to coach the team. It is like picking a team in high school - you go for someone who runs around all day. But he really needs to improve his ball control and passing skills, especially in the possession style Puel wants the team to play. He is costing the team a lot through severely disrupting our attacking chemistry.  This is the sort of things that only top coaches like Sir Ferguson consistently get right (it is not as simple as just looking at what one player does but judging how he fits in with his teammates and the style of play). He has shown improvement I admit, but he is not there yet and should be dropped for time being. If you can be bothered to understand our point of view, please see my previous long post on this more. Cheers

 

Edited 31 December 2018 by Tom12345

[Ian Nacho]

The frustration is with Ndidi is that we know his qualities winning the ball back, we've just seen no progress in forward areas. 

[frany104]

In my opinion he’s average. Wins the ball back and then gives it away. There’s a reason he’s plays for us and not a top 4 team. I would sell for as much as possible and look for a replacement. He offers absotely nothing going forward and is the main reason we HAVE to play on the counter because he constantly gives then ball away.

[Del Najan]

Tom12345, I honestly fail to understand your point. You started out ridiculing the psychological references in my post. By so doing, you're actually exhibiting an abnormal psychology that reveals itself in your pure Pavlovian response to my post. I must've hit some raw nerves or particularly provoked you by my post to warrant your ad hominem attacks.

Wilfred Ndidi doesn't have to convert all his shots to be a descent striker of the ball from range. All descent CM'S in football frequently attempt those shots with varying levels of success. Matic, Romeu, Fernandinho,  Idrissa Gueye, Wanyama, Iborra etc None of the aforementioned has scored more than 2 goals this season, despite attempting several shots per game. 

Speaking of technique, in the 2015-2016 season Wilf was awarded the goal of the season in Jupiler pro league for a super long range effort while he played for Genk. He's scored about 3 more long range shots since he's been in the premier league. So how about you mention other CM'S in the premier league in the same period with a better conversion rate from 25+ yards? 

You mention Andros Townsend who plays as an attack minded midfielder for Palace; gets in better shooting position, and yet he only has 2 or 3 goals for the season and only scored once last season. Apart from the goal against City,how many has he struck from the range Wilf attempts his shots? 

There are no solutions; there are trade- offs. His height, aerial prowess,  tackling ability, stamina, aggression,  motor( relentless running), offer so much to the team, that the moment he doesn't play is when he becomes conspicuous by his absence. 

I remember once when he was dropped in the premier league this season that the midfield was in utter shambles; Iborra ended up getting hurt, and ultimately Wilf had to be subbed in to replace him. 

Honestly, only when you have played in that position would you realize the difficulty of those long range efforts.  Demarai Gray has ballooned more balls over the Stands than Ndidi ,despite shooting in and around the opponents box!!

 

[Beechey]

4 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

I respect your perspective on this Beechey, but my observations are quite different.

 

Del Najan above also made it look like he is a doctor analysing human psychology but without actually seeing the patient or understanding the context.

 

I have watched Ndidi over a long period of time (not one or a few games). My observations and indeed many other similar views here have been made for a long time.

 

Firstly, let’s take Silva out of this discussion. This is misleading. In any event, I didn’t say Silva “misplaced all his passes” so not sure of the relevance. In fact, I agree with you, I think Silva has been hard done by. This can be observed on the pitch - no need stats for that. But I am not saying stats are not valid evidence - but stats are limited. Your observation on Silva only came about because you actually watched the games. You can pass backwards to the keeper all day within 10 yards of him, the keep will get to all of them, and the stats will record passing accuracy of 100%. Does that say that he is a great creative/forward passer of the ball? Those who solely rely on stats here will seemingly say yes! But if you watch the game, you won’t say that at all.

 

As for Ndidi, more in response to Del Najan, despite his focus on fallacies of human psychology, he seems to suffer from the same as shown in the same post. Quoting Ndidi’s long range shooting as a special skill he has is obviously based on only watching highlights on youtube for a few mins a game. If you watch the entire games the whole year, then, as some fans have also commented on here before, you will see that he has only ever been successful that one time (as Del Najan also himself mentioned!). He tried many many times since, and apart from that one shot against Chelsea, most of his attempts are to row Z. I don’t have a problem with long range shooting at all - and missing is not a problem - but when you watch him, his techniques were all wrong. You can see that he had no chance at all. His shooting skills are very different to those of Townsend from Palace - now he is a decent shooter of the ball from range. (Sorry not meant to be a dig at Del Najan but it needs clarification).

 

Ndidi will improve. He is picked because of his running, his height, his stamina and his football brain. He is easy to pick I agree when you first come to coach the team. It is like picking a team in high school - you go for someone who runs around all day. But he really needs to improve his ball control and passing skills, especially in the possession style Puel wants the team to play. He is costing the team a lot through severely disrupting our attacking chemistry.  This is the sort of things that only top coaches like Sir Ferguson consistently get right (it is not as simple as just looking at what one player does but judging how he fits in with his teammates and the style of play). He has shown improvement I admit, but he is not there yet and should be dropped for time being. If you can be bothered to understand our point of view, please see my previous long post on this more. Cheers

 

Just back from New Year's celebrations but in my minimal capacity to read and I think, I think I agree with you. I hope I remember to give you the response you deserve in the morning!

Rather drunk right now Happy New Year's, Tom!

Edited 1 January 2019 by Beechey