Crazy Politically Correct happenings and issues thread

[The Doctor]

42 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Yeah, I get that.

 

But to take the Irish as an example, stereotypic depictions of stupidity are based on historical prejudice too, yet it's ok to perpetuate it in humour. It's not something that I lose sleep over, I just think it's an inconsistency that seems to have no easy-to-follow rules. The furore over Vardy's 'Jap' remark springs to mind - there was a notable disagreement over whether or not it was a racist term.

That was an argument of culture though - in America it does function as a slur against Japanese people, from the WWII days, whereas over here it's never really been used in the same way: the disagreement was around the question of whether something that's a slur in one culture should be considered one universally.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Rogstanley said:

Somebody else will probably be able to articulate it better than me but it’s about historical association with prejudice, discrimination etc. Which give some words a greater chance of causing offence. Nuanced, but not arbitrary, I don’t think.

The problem with that is offence is in the eye of the offendee and you can't tell someone if they should or shouldn't be offended by something. Everyone's different. It depends as much on personal circumstances than your race or nationality. 

 

Like Buce says, I think there's a hierarchy of offence now seemingly based on what is more likely to get you in trouble. 

[Alf Bentley]

As I was arriving at the stadium for the Man Utd match, I saw a police constable emerge from one of the police vans.

He suddenly tore off his uniform, placed a pineapple on his head and skipped off up the concourse stark naked, singing "I am the Queen of Skibbereen!"

 

PC gone mad, if you ask me.

[Buce]

2 hours ago, Rogstanley said:

That would put jokes about the stupidity of the Irish out of bounds for me as an Englishman then. If there's a chance of causing offence I just wouldn't make the joke, no big deal, plenty of other things to joke about and certainly much more important things to worry about. If you want an easy to follow rule then 'avoid stereotypes' doesn't do a bad job. There will never be a perfect simple rule though and things will always change, because society itself is complex, nuanced and ever changing.

 

 

Your choice, of course, but please don't refrain on my account. Obviously, I can't speak for everyone but I've yet to meet an Irish man/woman who does take offense at it, and some of the funniest gags I've heard have been in Irish pubs.

 

Though, there was this one bloke who came at me with a razor - fortunately he'd neglected to plug it in...

Edited 1 January 2018 by Buce

[Buce]

23 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

As I was arriving at the stadium for the Man Utd match, I saw a police constable emerge from one of the police vans.

He suddenly tore off his uniform, placed a pineapple on his head and skipped off up the concourse stark naked, singing "I am the Queen of Skibbereen!"

 

PC gone mad, if you ask me.

 

 

Happy New Year, Alf.

[Captain...]

On 12/31/2017 at 20:00, toddybad said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

 

This is something that I think needs to be addressed when it comes to trans, I'm all for respecting your right to change your appearance and be who you want, and that shouldn't be a barrier to work and having a normal life. They also need to respect the rights of other people to refuse to have their private parts inspected by someone they don't feel comfortable with. I've not read the whole article because of the paywall so I'm not sure how it was resolved.

 

A few other points:

 

In fiction it really doesn't matter and anyone upset by it really needs to re-think their priorities. Even with James Bond, I saw mentioned earlier, the whole timeline of this character is screwy and he has changed multiple times. The fact it was written for a man, in a time when only men were spies, doesn't mean it couldn't be a woman, and using the Bond Franchise to reboot as a woman is fine as long as it was a good movie.

 

If it is non fiction/historical fiction then yes I can see the problem of picking a black actor to play a historical character, like Winston Churchill, that would be weird.

 

In jokes pejorative and offensive terms and stereotypes are used as a part of the joke, if you are posting in the jokes thread you are making a joke and it is not aimed at a person but the joke is on the stereotype.  That is different to using these terms in professional/social environments or as part of everyday speak. Even more so when directing it at an individual.

[Buce]

7 minutes ago, Captain... said:

This is something that I think needs to be addressed when it comes to trans, I'm all for respecting your right to change your appearance and be who you want, and that shouldn't be a barrier to work and having a normal life. They also need to respect the rights of other people to refuse to have their private parts inspected by someone they don't feel comfortable with. I've not read the whole article because of the paywall so I'm not sure how it was resolved.

 

A few other points:

 

In fiction it really doesn't matter and anyone upset by it really needs to re-think their priorities. Even with James Bond, I saw mentioned earlier, the whole timeline of this character is screwy and he has changed multiple times. The fact it was written for a man, in a time when only men were spies, doesn't mean it couldn't be a woman, and using the Bond Franchise to reboot as a woman is fine as long as it was a good movie.

 

If it is non fiction/historical fiction then yes I can see the problem of picking a black actor to play a historical character, like Winston Churchill, that would be weird.

 

In jokes pejorative and offensive terms and stereotypes are used as a part of the joke, if you are posting in the jokes thread you are making a joke and it is not aimed at a person but the joke is on the stereotype.  That is different to using these terms in professional/social environments or as part of everyday speak. Even more so when directing it at an individual.

 

Interesting viewpoint.

 

My missus works as a mental health nurse, and quite often encounters patients (usually elderly) who refuse to be attended by black nursing staff on similar grounds. Do you think that their rights should be respected?

[Buce]

11 minutes ago, Captain... said:

This is something that I think needs to be addressed when it comes to trans, I'm all for respecting your right to change your appearance and be who you want, and that shouldn't be a barrier to work and having a normal life. They also need to respect the rights of other people to refuse to have their private parts inspected by someone they don't feel comfortable with. I've not read the whole article because of the paywall so I'm not sure how it was resolved.

 

A few other points:

 

In fiction it really doesn't matter and anyone upset by it really needs to re-think their priorities. Even with James Bond, I saw mentioned earlier, the whole timeline of this character is screwy and he has changed multiple times. The fact it was written for a man, in a time when only men were spies, doesn't mean it couldn't be a woman, and using the Bond Franchise to reboot as a woman is fine as long as it was a good movie.

 

If it is non fiction/historical fiction then yes I can see the problem of picking a black actor to play a historical character, like Winston Churchill, that would be weird.

 

In jokes pejorative and offensive terms and stereotypes are used as a part of the joke, if you are posting in the jokes thread you are making a joke and it is not aimed at a person but the joke is on the stereotype.  That is different to using these terms in professional/social environments or as part of everyday speak. Even more so when directing it at an individual.

 

What about when the stereotype is in itself offensive? For example, I've seen loads of jokes which make reference to blacks and criminality.

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Interesting viewpoint.

 

My missus works as a mental health nurse, and quite often encounters patients (usually elderly) who refuse to be attended by black nursing staff on similar grounds. Do you think that their rights should be respected?

 

Not in the same way, because there are no skin colour related conditions which you might be sensitive to and you don't have the right to request a white doctor/nurse. Having your private parts prodded and probed is an intimate and sensitive issue, women have the right to request a female doctor/nurse. When a clearly biologically male nurse turns up, despite identifying as a female, they have a right to not feel comfortable and ask for a biologically female doctor.

[Captain...]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

What about when the stereotype is in itself offensive? For example, I've seen loads of jokes which make reference to blacks and criminality.

Of course a joke can be offensive, my point was that you use different language when making what is clearly a joke compared to normal conversation. Jokes can still be offensive, but it is indirect and if I read a joke playing on a sterotype then I don't think the person telling it is a racist.  Whereas if I read someone referring to all Irish people as stupid in order dismiss the comments of an Irish poster, then I would be more inclined to think they were a tw@.

[the fox]

40 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Interesting viewpoint.

 

My missus works as a mental health nurse, and quite often encounters patients (usually elderly) who refuse to be attended by black nursing staff on similar grounds. Do you think that their rights should be respected?

 

they are old and mentally ill, where i'm from, you don't hold it against people that aren't on their right mind. the mental illness may have released their racisem for all to see but stll, they aren't 100%

 

i'm totally against racial profiling, but presumably those people are too sick and old to give a crap. just play along and let them live the rest of their short life.

[theessexfox]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ucl-white-campus-tweet-christmas-apologise-snow-racism-lawn-university-college-london-a8110746.html

 

UCL forced to apologise for 'dreaming of a white campus' tweet

London university says it 'chose its words very poorly' after Christmas song reference sparked complaint

 UCL apologised for the tweet after it drew criticism in some circles PA

A university has apologised after it came under fire for a tweet asking if students were “dreaming of a white campus”.

University College London (UCL) was forced to backtrack on a post made by its official Twitter account on Monday.

The university tweeted: “Dreaming of a white campus? 

 

“Our campuses will be open and operating fully today, Monday 11 December, so please make your way in as planned. (We can't guarantee snow but we'll try!) #snowday #londonsnow”

 

The message, which was intended to notify students that campuses would be open regardless of snowy conditions, drew criticism from some quarters for its potential double-meaning as a racist slur. 

Student Smera Kumar tweeted: “Come on UCL... dreaming of a white campus... seriously?!”

Aman Thakar added: “This UCL Alumni is not dreaming of a white campus, thanks.”

The backlash led to the university, which is consistently ranked among the best in the UK, issuing an official apology the following day and clarifying it was referencing a classic Christmas song.

It said: “We chose our words very poorly yesterday when thinking of [Bing Crosby’s White Christmas]. We’re sorry and we’ll choose our words more carefully in the future.”

The controversy has also attracted scorn and derision on social media from those who feel UCL was wrong to apologise over the post.

 

Stefan Roy tweeted:‏ “Seriously why are you pandering to such nonsense?

“They're clearly trying to find offence when there's non there. The tweet even had snow hashtags. And you apologising just makes it worse.

Joel Jackson said: “Thanks for clearing that up, UCL. 

“I had assumed you meant some sort of genocidal project to exterminate non-whites on campus so I find the clarification most reassuring.”

Edited 2 January 2018 by theessexfox
Inserted the article

[the fox]

so now, please tell me that the reaction wasn't overblown!

 

i'm not white but, does the "white man" need a list for potential offensive words, because that would be a long list.

 

just people trying to find a reason to be offended. 

[Finnaldo]

19 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ucl-white-campus-tweet-christmas-apologise-snow-racism-lawn-university-college-london-a8110746.html

 

UCL forced to apologise for 'dreaming of a white campus' tweet

London university says it 'chose its words very poorly' after Christmas song reference sparked complaint

 UCL apologised for the tweet after it drew criticism in some circles PA

A university has apologised after it came under fire for a tweet asking if students were “dreaming of a white campus”.

University College London (UCL) was forced to backtrack on a post made by its official Twitter account on Monday.

The university tweeted: “Dreaming of a white campus? 

 

“Our campuses will be open and operating fully today, Monday 11 December, so please make your way in as planned. (We can't guarantee snow but we'll try!) #snowday #londonsnow”

 

The message, which was intended to notify students that campuses would be open regardless of snowy conditions, drew criticism from some quarters for its potential double-meaning as a racist slur. 

Student Smera Kumar tweeted: “Come on UCL... dreaming of a white campus... seriously?!”

Aman Thakar added: “This UCL Alumni is not dreaming of a white campus, thanks.”

The backlash led to the university, which is consistently ranked among the best in the UK, issuing an official apology the following day and clarifying it was referencing a classic Christmas song.

It said: “We chose our words very poorly yesterday when thinking of [Bing Crosby’s White Christmas]. We’re sorry and we’ll choose our words more carefully in the future.”

The controversy has also attracted scorn and derision on social media from those who feel UCL was wrong to apologise over the post.

 

Stefan Roy tweeted:‏ “Seriously why are you pandering to such nonsense?

“They're clearly trying to find offence when there's non there. The tweet even had snow hashtags. And you apologising just makes it worse.

Joel Jackson said: “Thanks for clearing that up, UCL. 

“I had assumed you meant some sort of genocidal project to exterminate non-whites on campus so I find the clarification most reassuring.”

 

If this thread was on track then it'd been 80% articles on Universities like this.

 

Most students follow Marxist or Postmodern Theories as most professors preach it and this is the result sadly.

[Stadt]

“PC gone mad” is normally misplaced and thinly veiled bigotry but in the UCL case, that’s a textbook example of ridiculous political correctness.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

 

If this thread was on track then it'd been 80% articles on Universities like this.

 

Most students follow Marxist or Postmodern Theories as most professors preach it and this is the result sadly.

Behave, unless something radically different has changed since I left a few years ago.

 

You're talking about a tiny minority of gobshites who spout off about this stuff. The vast majority of students couldn't care less as long as the price of a pint is reasonable.

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

If this thread was on track then it'd been 80% articles on Universities like this.

 

Most students follow Marxist or Postmodern Theories as most professors preach it and this is the result sadly.

 

Pretty sure Karl Marx never got uppity about Bah Bah Black Sheep. 

 

Being offended for the sakes of it is nothing to do with being a socialist, tbh. 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

Behave, unless something radically different has changed since I left a few years ago.

 

You're talking about a tiny minority of gobshites who spout off about this stuff. The vast majority of students couldn't care less as long as the price of a pint is reasonable.

 

This. 

 

Most students I knew only really cared about covering themselves in Day-Glo paint, wearing sunglasses in November and acting like they're the first people on earth to ever take an E. 

[the fox]

probably the most hypocritical muck i saw in the internet was "there is no such thing as reverse racism".

 

of course there is such a thing, you daft muppet! it's just an excuse to say racist crap and get away with it. some of it is retaliation, some of it is just hate.

 

i get it, the big stack bully doesn't have the stick anymore so it's time for him to get the beating, but please, don't say it's ok because white people did atrocious things in the past 

 

just have a look at this!

 

Since racism only works against people who are already oppressed, white people cannot possibly be its victims—no matter how poor they are. In recent history whites have always held the most power, so the systems and institutions that exist today were all built around this assumption. Black people and Native Americans couldn’t even vote until the latter half of the last century, and still today we see voter suppression happening in many states. Sure, things are better for black and brown people than they were in the past, but better doesn’t mean equal.

 

 

the last paragraph i agree with. people shouldn't be judged by the color of their skin and there are still cases of racial profiling in the world

Edited 2 January 2018 by the fox

[Alf Bentley]

57 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ucl-white-campus-tweet-christmas-apologise-snow-racism-lawn-university-college-london-a8110746.html

 

UCL forced to apologise for 'dreaming of a white campus' tweet

London university says it 'chose its words very poorly' after Christmas song reference sparked complaint

 

 

Whoever said that needs to be blacklisted or I'm a Chinaman!

[leicsmac]

20 minutes ago, the fox said:

probably the most hypocritical muck i saw in the internet was "there is no such thing as reverse racism".

 

of course there is such a thing, you daft muppet! it's just an excuse to say racist crap and get away with it. some of it is retaliation, some of it is just hate.

 

i get it, the big stack bully doesn't have the stick anymore so it's time for him to get the beating, but please, don't say it's ok because white people did atrocious things in the past 

 

just have a look at this!

 

Since racism only works against people who are already oppressed, white people cannot possibly be its victims—no matter how poor they are. In recent history whites have always held the most power, so the systems and institutions that exist today were all built around this assumption. Black people and Native Americans couldn’t even vote until the latter half of the last century, and still today we see voter suppression happening in many states. Sure, things are better for black and brown people than they were in the past, but better doesn’t mean equal.

 

 

the last paragraph i agree with. people shouldn't be judged by the color of their skin and there are still cases of racial profiling in the world

The point regarding voting and voter suppression is very salient, but the rest ain't.

[Finnaldo]

5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Behave, unless something radically different has changed since I left a few years ago.

 

You're talking about a tiny minority of gobshites who spout off about this stuff. The vast majority of students couldn't care less as long as the price of a pint is reasonable.

 

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Pretty sure Karl Marx never got uppity about Bah Bah Black Sheep. 

 

Being offended for the sakes of it is nothing to do with being a socialist, tbh. 

 

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

This. 

 

Most students I knew only really cared about covering themselves in Day-Glo paint, wearing sunglasses in November and acting like they're the first people on earth to ever take an E. 

 

I'm 20 now, a lot of my friends are currently at Uni and I've spent plenty of time visiting them over the last few years at three or four different Unis of different standing in different parts of the country. I'm naturally left-leaning, especially socially, a lot of my aforementioned friends are as well but even they say a lot of what their course mates, housemates and general acquaintances espouse are too far for them.

 

It's a lot more prevalent in History, Literature and obviously social studies subjects, one of the lads who does History at the University of Birmingham says he gets shouted down should he criticise one of the Marxist or Postmodern theories that are mostly taught, he's had the same things at parties or just from housemates when they discuss it.  

 

What 'most students' WERE doing is slightly different to now where society has become highly politicised, we saw how much students came out in force in the last election and why that's clearly a good thing it seems to have led to plenty being dragged to the fringes as well. Marxism is fairly easy to get your head around and in my experience it goes hand in hand with identity politics which have led to the kind of ridiculous articles you've seen above. If this was such a fringe minority, you wouldn't have the University having to apologise, and you wouldn't have Universities banning somberos and the like. It's not a majority of students, but I'd think you'd be surprised quite how large it is, and it's only being encouraged.

 

Only recently there was the whole Lindsey Shepherd incident in Canada (for context: http://www.macleans.ca/lindsay-shepherd-wilfrid-laurier/), my mate who's half-Tunisian Muslim-turned-Atheist has pointed out on his course (which is IT, he also did one year of Engineering) there is overwhelming amount of support and network groups organised for women, because they're 'under represented' (it's not like they simply choose not to do it on the most part) whilst most men on the course have nothing of the sort. He said he was invited to some kind of support or network group because he's in an ethnic minority, but refused on principle. The bloke is as white as English bloke down the street in everything other than name and the lad next to him wouldn't get the same opportunities as he does, because it happens to be his dad's from Tunisia. 

 

This isn't a dig at left-wing politics, both the lads I mentioned and myself voted Labour in the last election, but clearly Universities have become more and more about identity politics and political correctness through the fact Marxism and Postmodernism are so highly protected above any other ideologies. 

[Buce]

22 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Whoever said that needs to be blacklisted or I'm a Chinaman!

 

That's wong on so many levels...

[the fox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The point regarding voting and voter suppression is very salient, but the rest ain't.

yeah i know, i'm not arguing against it, it's obvious that's non-whites had/have it harder finding a job (and other things beside that) 
 

it's backward thinking, you can't just say that there is no such thing as "racism against white people". a white man (in the USA) can be looked at sideways for saying "i'm proud to be white" because in the eyes of many, being white while saying "i'm proud to be what i am" is stigmatised, they will connect white people with power/pride to oppression (and let's be honest, the history books aren't helping the white people).

[Countryfox]

35 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Universities have become more and more about identity politics and political correctness through the fact Marxism and Postmodernism are so highly protected above any other ideologies.