Since the beginning of The Championship (2004/2005)

[Jack1993]

Getting promoted from the Championship is a hell of a task, some clubs spend tens of millions and still don't achieve it, some get promoted without spending much at all but that's just the beginning. After gaining promotion to the Premier League, how do you go about staying there? Well I don't have the answer to this specific question as there's so many factors (One being luck) but I have started to construct an excel document that highlights just how difficult it is not to sink. 

 

I know that the football league goes back much further than this but I just wanted to provide a snapshot of averages without delving too deep, I started from when "The Championship" was formed but I've attached the document for anybody that wants to look/alter/add/takeaway! 

 

For me, the results show that longevity doesn't work, we'll all get relegated eventually. Sunderland were here for 10 years, Stoke 9 but who's gunna remember that in years to come? Go for it while you can is what I say, go for cups, go for Europe, 1 season of any kind of glory or cup run beats years of monotonous mid-table finishes!  

 

The average league position in season 1 for a promoted team is 15.4

Season 2: 13.1

Season 3: 13.1

Season 4: 10.6

 

The average number of seasons that a promoted team lasts in the Premier League is 2.9

 

Out of the 36 teams promoted since The Championship began only 10 have lasted over 3 seasons

 

Best average finishing positions since promotion:

1: Southampton 8.6 (Over 5 seasons)

2: Leicester 9 (Over 3 seasons)

3: Swansea 11.2 (Over 6 seasons)

4: Stoke 11.4 (Over 9 seasons)

 

(We will most likely top this table once this season is over, I thought about not including our title winning season to get a clearer picture of where we stood as there is an argument that the league was "easier" that year but all 3 of Southampton, Stoke and Swansea were also in the Premier League that season, played the same oppositions and had the same opportunities, we were just better and our league position average should reflect this. 

 

Longest time spent in the Premier League after promotion:

 

1: Sunderland (10 seasons)

2: Stoke (9 seasons – ongoing)

3: Wigan (8 seasons)

 

Manchester City (Promoted 2001/2002) are probably that last team to get promoted that aren’t in danger of getting relegated within 2 seasons. 

 

Out of 36 teams promoted, 16 were relegated in their first Premier League season! (Brighton, Huddersfield & Newcastle not included from this season as it's not over yet) Champ - PL.xlsx

 

I'm sure there's more that can be found out from the table I've created, however I'm not nearly informed or patient enough to find them. I hope that at least somebody finds this interesting. If not feel free to move/merge/delete, 

 

All the best 

 

Champ - PL.xlsx 

 

 

[KingsX]

Nifty and useful numbers, thanks.  Afraid you lost me at

 

31 minutes ago, Jack1993 said:

1 season of any kind of glory or cup run beats years of monotonous mid-table finishes!  

 

1 season league cup = trophy

1 season FA Cup (2018 winners prize) = 1.8M pounds

 

Eight years x 10th place PL merit (prize) plus TV money = 1 billion pounds

 

[yorkie1999]

18 minutes ago, KingsX said:

Nifty and useful numbers, thanks.  Afraid you lost me at

 

 

1 season league cup = trophy

1 season FA Cup (2018 winners prize) = 1.8M pounds

 

Eight years x 10th place PL merit (prize) plus TV money = 1 billion pounds

 

8 seasons in the PL = £2 billion cost of players and wages.

[Soar Fox]

20 minutes ago, KingsX said:

Nifty and useful numbers, thanks.  Afraid you lost me at

 

 

1 season league cup = trophy

1 season FA Cup (2018 winners prize) = 1.8M pounds

 

Eight years x 10th place PL merit (prize) plus TV money = 1 billion pounds

 

The amount of money the club get is totally irrelevant to me as unfortunately I won’t get a single penny of it. 

 

Winning the Fa Cup though is a memory that would live with me for a lifetime. 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Always forget Wigan were in it for so long, that's a great effort really.

[David Guiza]

9 minutes ago, Steve_Walsh5 said:

The amount of money the club get is totally irrelevant to me as unfortunately I won’t get a single penny of it. 

 

Winning the Fa Cup though is a memory that would live with me for a lifetime. 

Absolutely. In the interim years of our infamous game at the Britannia all those years ago, Stoke have had floated around mid-table and had a brief flirt with Europe (where they put out a pathetic side to get knocked out. 

 

Sunderland may as well have not existed for the past 10 years. 

[Stadt]

17 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

Always forget Wigan were in it for so long, that's a great effort really.

Amir Zaki doing the business

[RonnieTodger]

God I completely forgot Cardiff were in the Premier League. It's all coming back to me now, Tan the man. 

[SystonFox]

50 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

God I completely forgot Cardiff were in the Premier League. It's all coming back to me now, Tan the man. 

Remember when blackpool were in it and everyone supported them for about two weeks? Reading also a regular in the prem in the late noughties early tweenies. Rubbish league

[KingsX]

1 hour ago, Steve_Walsh5 said:

The amount of money the club get is totally irrelevant to me as unfortunately I won’t get a single penny of it. 

 

Winning the Fa Cup though is a memory that would live with me for a lifetime. 

No one can argue feelings.  But your point seems so extreme.  The money is “totally irrelevant” to you?  To the point where a single cup would be worth more than long-term stability?

 

That money determines not only what players your club can hire and keep, but the coaches, staff, facilities, etc.  It doesn’t define what a club is, but has absolute power to limit what it can be. It’s irrelevant only if you don’t care whether City are a CL, Prem, or lower club.  Most here mock the Forest fans who parade old honors through their void of recent achievement. 

 

We watch our club play some of the best.  We field a quality side that has a real chance of winning against Arsenal, Chelsea and Manure.  We’ve been to Bruges, Sevilla and Madrid and may return to European competition.  True that won’t last forever, but I’d say keep it as strong a possibility as we can, for as long as we can.  I think building an infrastructure -- and level of revenue -- that can keep us in the Prem, is now and finally within our grasp, and should be the foremost goal.

 

That is newbie thinking vice veteran Leicester fatalism, for sure.  I suppose the longer you have followed the English game, or the more you look to/value the past, the more you will accept the “cycles of nature” and value the cups.  Newer fan or looking to the future, you’re likelier to favor league results as the first (but not only) principle. 

Edited 29 January 2018 by KingsX

[davieG]

I guess you've got more chance of winning something in the PL even mid-table mediocrity suggests you've got a better team than any in the Championship.

[ajthefox]

1 hour ago, KingsX said:

No one can argue feelings.  But your point seems so extreme.  The money is “totally irrelevant” to you?  To the point where a single cup would be worth more than long-term stability?

 

That money determines not only what players your club can hire and keep, but the coaches, staff, facilities, etc.  It doesn’t define what a club is, but has absolute power to limit what it can be. It’s irrelevant only if you don’t care whether City are a CL, Prem, or lower club.  Most here mock the Forest fans who parade old honors through their void of recent achievement. 

 

We watch our club play some of the best.  We field a quality side that has a real chance of winning against Arsenal, Chelsea and Manure.  We’ve been to Bruges, Sevilla and Madrid and may return to European competition.  True that won’t last forever, but I’d say keep it as strong a possibility as we can, for as long as we can.  I think building an infrastructure -- and level of revenue -- that can keep us in the Prem, is now and finally within our grasp, and should be the foremost goal.

 

That is newbie thinking vice veteran Leicester fatalism, for sure.  I suppose the longer you have followed the English game, or the more you look to/value the past, the more you will accept the “cycles of nature” and value the cups.  Newer fan or looking to the future, you’re likelier to favor league results as the first (but not only) principle. 

What is long term stability though?

 

As the OP pointed out, Sunderland and Wigan have two of the three longest spells in the PL after promotion and look where they are now. 

Wigan have an FA Cup win in that time. What do Sunderland have to show for theirs?

Stoke are looking ropey as fook this season but they were surely the definition of stable finishing 9th 3 years on the bounce. 

 

I appreciate your reply is to a pretty hard line response, but I would argue (and my main point) is that the money the club earns from a few seasons in mid table obscurity means very little because most of the PL are only so far away from relegation. Of course we are aiming for long term stability, but the majority of teams in this league (any league, even) are anything but stable.

 

 

[Jack1993]

I accidentally started this thread in the transfer section and thought it had been deleted rather than moved so have only just caught up with the responses. I think some others have correctly answered on my behalf... to me as a fan I would much rather have trophies with our name on them than be in the Premier League for ten years without any trophies. What's the point in football if you're not trying to win things? 

 

In 10, maybe even 5 years time nobody is going to remember Sunderland as a premier league club just because they were here for a while, we're typically a yo-yo club and we will fall eventually like the rest but I'd rather fall with memories of trips to Wembley, playing in Europe and lifting trophies. Being in the Premier League for the sake of it doesn't excite me, the championship winning season was amazing and at the time it felt like the most important thing in the world, we've eclipsed it since, sure but what a season that was because we won something. Saying all this, we're all very lucky at Leicester City to currently be enjoying the "best of both worlds" and if we can find away to carry it on (Winning trophies and competing for Europe in The Prem) then long may it bloody continue 

[Nalis]

Its got to the stage that there are almost too many small clubs in the premier league thanks to the incompetence of the bigger teams outside the top 6.

 

About 10 years ago it was a novelty when a team like Burnley or Wigan got promoted and you would really want them to do well but now there are around 8/9 teams you could consider as small and forgettable if they went down (eg, Fulham and Hull in recent seasons).

 

I know the smaller teams earned their right but I'd rather have a healthy mix of teams like Newcastle, Leeds and Villa in the top tier and some smaller teams rather than looking forward to the likes Bournemouth v Watford on Match of the Day.

 

Probably doesnt help longevity in the Premier League thus making it an acheivement when a team stays up for a number of years.

[MrSpaM]

At least we aren't in any danger of people forgetting our stint in the PL this time, however long it lasts

[Ted Maul]

On 31/01/2018 at 15:01, Nalis said:

Its got to the stage that there are almost too many small clubs in the premier league thanks to the incompetence of the bigger teams outside the top 6.

 

About 10 years ago it was a novelty when a team like Burnley or Wigan got promoted and you would really want them to do well but now there are around 8/9 teams you could consider as small and forgettable if they went down (eg, Fulham and Hull in recent seasons).

 

I know the smaller teams earned their right but I'd rather have a healthy mix of teams like Newcastle, Leeds and Villa in the top tier and some smaller teams rather than looking forward to the likes Bournemouth v Watford on Match of the Day.

 

Probably doesnt help longevity in the Premier League thus making it an acheivement when a team stays up for a number of years.

Every team in the league deserves to be here. Look at it as a positive- we've got designs for the top half & Europe, whereas 10 sides started the season with the sole objective of staying in the division. There really is very little competition for where we want to be, and it's a shame we put in such a pathetic performance against it last night.

[The Fox Covert]

On 1/31/2018 at 15:01, Nalis said:

Its got to the stage that there are almost too many small clubs in the premier league thanks to the incompetence of the bigger teams outside the top 6...

Yes, there are quite a few big clubs which are either yo-yo clubs or have been out of the Premier League a long time. I would name West Ham and Newcastle (both in the Premier League now but both have had a chequered recent history and either could easily go down), Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday and Wolves. Generally speaking bad owners have been the undoing of most of them.

The amount of TV and sponsorship money now means that gate money, the traditional bellweather of a big club, is not as important as it used to be.

This is why the likes of Bournemouth, Watford and Burnley can compete in the Premier League with average gates far below any of the five I have mentioned.

Although the Premier League I think will always be dominated by clubs from big cities I think there might be one or two more clubs out there who, with the right owners and a progressive business policy might one day reach the Premier League. I am thinking of maybe Crewe, Peterborough and Swindon. Middling size towns where there is a reasonable amount of money in the town, don't have any bigger clubs in their potential catchment area, and have pretty good transport links.

Come, tell me I am having a laugh!